4mm Monks: perhaps NOT a Classic Minories - for a grandchild.
- Thread starter jonte
- Start date
michael080
Western Thunderer
It is a bit late, but did you ever consider using Servos?
The turnout is just below the slot at the right end of the brass tube. I used 0.6mm steel wire, it can be easily bend and is a bit resilent.
plus: Put them where you want (some of mine are 50cm away from the turnout
plus: Adjust them precisely with the controlling PCB
plus: use the wire you want
plus: easy to mount
minus: some added complexity because of additional controller.
Michael
The turnout is just below the slot at the right end of the brass tube. I used 0.6mm steel wire, it can be easily bend and is a bit resilent.plus: Put them where you want (some of mine are 50cm away from the turnout
plus: Adjust them precisely with the controlling PCB
plus: use the wire you want
plus: easy to mount
minus: some added complexity because of additional controller.
Michael
Roger Pound
Western Thunderer
Just caught up with your fascinating thread Jonte. I built Minories many years ago when I was a young man, but it was scrapped due to a house move - I had one of those jobs at the time - and my interests moved on to other scales. It is a fascinating project and although design for the steam period does lend itself to modern multiple unit stock if required........no doubt that will be a decision made by the young recipient of your work. I look forward to seeing your progress.
Regards,
Roger
Regards,
Roger
jonte
Western Thunderer
Hi Michael, and thank you for introducing me to yet another simpler method of doing things. Looks like a modern take on the old Mercontrol system
That does indeed look tempting, but I was put off their use by an advisor who implied that they were better suited to auxiliary purposes such as signals. To that end, I’m intending to use them for my signals - if and when I get round to it!
Incidentally, are you using the Megapoints board to operate your servos?
Many thanks for taking time to post up the pros, cons and accompanying photo, Michael. If it turns out that after all this effort that the Peco motors are a bum-steer, I may well heed your advice!
Cheers,
Jonte
jonte
Western Thunderer
Hi Roger, and thanks for dropping in.
It’s a great idea and I can see why, like many other modellers over the years, you also had a bash. It seems to offer a lot in a small space and the track plan, with its curves, looks realistic and attractive.
It’s just a shame that I’m encountering so many problems, which I thought would have been fewer by using proprietary items, however, this has proved not to be the case for a variety of reasons which you will no doubt of read about in my whining posts!
One problem with the design is that the support brackets at the ends of each board have proven a real obstruction to screwdrivers, chisels, hammers and soldering irons, and I’ve been sorely tempted on several occasions to cut them off! But I suppose that would defeat the object of its portability.
The issue of stock has indeed crossed my mind. I’m firmly of the steam era but who knows what interests our new addition will enjoy as you rightly point out? Perhaps it will end up an eclectic mix, in the tradition of most train sets
Thanks for your interest, Roger, and I hope I can maintain your interest.
Jonte
jonte
Western Thunderer
Just an update, fellow Westerners, to let you know that after a lot more drilling, chiselling, bad language and the discovery of yet more hidden screws, the big hole to accommodate the last point motor was cut, as was yesterday’s goal for today:
And a darned biggun it is too. It had to be to allow the required angle of attack and a load more wiggle room to marry it up to the rest of the track. Best I can say is that it’s now behind me and will be just another hole to fill.
The point has now been relaid and wired into the ‘loom’ once more:
Relief!
The three point motors that had become detached during yesterday’s upheaval proved troublesome once again, despite having worked without problems until they became detached. Returning them to their pre-drilled holes with the rigmarole of having to centre everything again, they clammed up as they’d done initially which the widening of the holes did nothing for on this occasion. I really wasn’t in the mood for all this to be honest, but I persevered. It transpired through much cogitation coupled with more trial and error, that the points had moved out of position, probably after I tried re-threading the pin through the holes in the tie bars. A bit of trial pushing one way and then t’other until free movement was achieved once more was the order of the day, such that I could now enjoy a meal for once without dreading my return to the model room:
I did about an hour this evening just marking and drilling more (large) holes for the point switches, which is merely an exercise in avoiding the reams of wire that cling to the underside.
Hopefully, tomorrow should see me wiring it all up and attaching the CDU. Until this point is reached, and the points switching remotely, I shaln’t relax.
Hope nobody minds all this frequent updating btw, but I find it keeps me focussed and not look for excuses to avoid going out there. And hopefully in the process, it might just help some other unfortunate soul that’s determined to use up some old model railway equipment - it should carry a health warning!
Jonte
Edit to add that those ruddy overhead beams - an essential part of the design - are proving a right pain. The fact that they obstruct most tools makes even the simplest jobs a nightmare, which made access to making that big hole a ‘circumvential’ affair to say the least. Oh that they weren’t there. Jonte
And a darned biggun it is too. It had to be to allow the required angle of attack and a load more wiggle room to marry it up to the rest of the track. Best I can say is that it’s now behind me and will be just another hole to fill.
The point has now been relaid and wired into the ‘loom’ once more:
Relief!
The three point motors that had become detached during yesterday’s upheaval proved troublesome once again, despite having worked without problems until they became detached. Returning them to their pre-drilled holes with the rigmarole of having to centre everything again, they clammed up as they’d done initially which the widening of the holes did nothing for on this occasion. I really wasn’t in the mood for all this to be honest, but I persevered. It transpired through much cogitation coupled with more trial and error, that the points had moved out of position, probably after I tried re-threading the pin through the holes in the tie bars. A bit of trial pushing one way and then t’other until free movement was achieved once more was the order of the day, such that I could now enjoy a meal for once without dreading my return to the model room:
I did about an hour this evening just marking and drilling more (large) holes for the point switches, which is merely an exercise in avoiding the reams of wire that cling to the underside.
Hopefully, tomorrow should see me wiring it all up and attaching the CDU. Until this point is reached, and the points switching remotely, I shaln’t relax.
Hope nobody minds all this frequent updating btw, but I find it keeps me focussed and not look for excuses to avoid going out there. And hopefully in the process, it might just help some other unfortunate soul that’s determined to use up some old model railway equipment - it should carry a health warning!
Jonte
Edit to add that those ruddy overhead beams - an essential part of the design - are proving a right pain. The fact that they obstruct most tools makes even the simplest jobs a nightmare, which made access to making that big hole a ‘circumvential’ affair to say the least. Oh that they weren’t there. Jonte
GrahameH
Western Thunderer
Hi Jonte,
Although I don't have a layout built / completed as yet I did invest in Dave's Megapoint Servo controller and have nothing but praise for it.
An extremely easy item to use and adjust as required for both pointwork and signals ( and a nice bounce too ! ).
I decided to go down that route as my pointwork is O Gauge handbuilt so it needed to have a softer mechanism to operate for my requirements, that said, they will easily cope with standard Peco pointwork from N to O Gauge.
Usual disclaimers etc.
G
jonte
Western Thunderer
Hi Grahame, and thank you for contributing to my chaotic thread.
Thanks also for the benefit of your experience with Megapoints; it’s good to know that there is yet another viable option if Peco motors break my heart once more!
Interesting too that it’s as user friendly as the manufacturer claims in one of many interesting videos which they’ve produced. Mind you, I’ll be the LCD if it works for me, as I had intended to discover when I eventually order a unit to operate some signals I’m thinking of cobbling together, although any resemblance to real GWR signals will be sheer coincidence. And that’s if I can find anywhere to accommodate them as the miles of wire are now being measured in A.U.s.
Hopefully, I won’t need them for the points - as I’m hopefully going to discover later - but if I do, I know I shaln’t be disappointed.
Hope all is well,
Jonte
jonte
Western Thunderer
jonte
Western Thunderer
Doesn’t look like another full day’s work, fellow Westerners, admittedly but I’ve done me damndest.
The point switches are installed at last and now keep the polarity switches company:
They were only a temporary set up until I constructed a suitable panel for them, but I’ve grown to like them there and I like the fact that they are integrated and out of harms way, so there they will stay. I shall learn to ignore them when watching the trains go by, or hopefully be far too busy marshalling trains to notice them.
The underneath has become even more cluttered:
and is set to get busier as there will be the fitting of more wire to connect the point motors in a circuit to the CDU.
I’m disappointed that I didn’t get round to testing the points to see if they work which was my intention, but I guess there was more work than I anticipated, and I’m still using blades to strip sleeves from wires and plain old screwdrivers to screw everything down - which reminds that I’ll need more clips - which isn’t the most efficient way to work I suppose.
I can’t go any further tonight anyway as I’ve run out of wire and I don’t fancy stripping down the old lawn mower flex at this time of night which has been my source of wire for the point motors, so it’ll have to wait till morning. I’ll also have to try and fit in a spot if soldering between showers: the leads from the CDU will need sockets fitting and new leads for the AC controller will need to be made replete with plugs.
‘Nite.
Jonte
The point switches are installed at last and now keep the polarity switches company:
They were only a temporary set up until I constructed a suitable panel for them, but I’ve grown to like them there and I like the fact that they are integrated and out of harms way, so there they will stay. I shall learn to ignore them when watching the trains go by, or hopefully be far too busy marshalling trains to notice them.
The underneath has become even more cluttered:
and is set to get busier as there will be the fitting of more wire to connect the point motors in a circuit to the CDU.
I’m disappointed that I didn’t get round to testing the points to see if they work which was my intention, but I guess there was more work than I anticipated, and I’m still using blades to strip sleeves from wires and plain old screwdrivers to screw everything down - which reminds that I’ll need more clips - which isn’t the most efficient way to work I suppose.
I can’t go any further tonight anyway as I’ve run out of wire and I don’t fancy stripping down the old lawn mower flex at this time of night which has been my source of wire for the point motors, so it’ll have to wait till morning. I’ll also have to try and fit in a spot if soldering between showers: the leads from the CDU will need sockets fitting and new leads for the AC controller will need to be made replete with plugs.
‘Nite.
Jonte
michael080
Western Thunderer
Jonte, I have been using my own PCB-design to operate them. Just another one of my countless hobbies.
I didn't like the ones available because of "too high price", "not enough features", "no polarity switching" or "servos making continuous noise".
Michael
jonte
Western Thunderer
Jonte, I have been using my own PCB-design to operate them. Just another one of my countless hobbies.
I didn't like the ones available because of "too high price", "not enough features", "no polarity switching" or "servos making continuous noise".
Michael
Hats off to you, sir
I wouldn’t understand a word of it.
Jonte
jonte
Western Thunderer
Twice as long as expected, all the wire of the old lawn mower flex used up, barely any baseboard left uncovered below the surface and at last we have:
…..a layout that doesn’t work! Or at least point motors that only do half a job, and I’m feeling a little disappointed fellow Westerners.
It’s not all bad news though, as the bog standard, non-extended pin variety of the Peco point motor attached directly to the base of the point clicks away quite merrily, but the rest……..
As I say, they’ll click one way but not back. They’ll click across again if I push them back over by hand, so not sure what’s going on as both track and point were centred using jigs.
Think there’s only on thing for it - bit drastic - but I’ll just have to remove all the point work wiring, all the point motors, replace them with non-extended pin varieties and attach them to the base of each point as per the only working point. Which of course means cutting out more bl**dy big holes.
Unless of course I opt for the servos and digital server - or whatever they’re called - which will take the cost well over a hundred quid and may require removal of the springs in the tie bar. Hmm…
Sorry for the glum post but I am very disappointed, despite being totally aware that this was a very realistic outcome.
Just off to lick my wounds.
Jonte
…..a layout that doesn’t work! Or at least point motors that only do half a job, and I’m feeling a little disappointed fellow Westerners.
It’s not all bad news though, as the bog standard, non-extended pin variety of the Peco point motor attached directly to the base of the point clicks away quite merrily, but the rest……..
As I say, they’ll click one way but not back. They’ll click across again if I push them back over by hand, so not sure what’s going on as both track and point were centred using jigs.
Think there’s only on thing for it - bit drastic - but I’ll just have to remove all the point work wiring, all the point motors, replace them with non-extended pin varieties and attach them to the base of each point as per the only working point. Which of course means cutting out more bl**dy big holes.
Unless of course I opt for the servos and digital server - or whatever they’re called - which will take the cost well over a hundred quid and may require removal of the springs in the tie bar. Hmm…
Sorry for the glum post but I am very disappointed, despite being totally aware that this was a very realistic outcome.
Just off to lick my wounds.
Jonte
Attachments
michael080
Western Thunderer
oh my!
just wondering, the solenoids are not pulling with much force. Are the switch blades with the attached sleepers moving absolutly unrestricted?
Michael
just wondering, the solenoids are not pulling with much force. Are the switch blades with the attached sleepers moving absolutly unrestricted?
Michael
jonte
Western Thunderer
Hi Michael, and thanks for your help.
They do indeed, Michael, which is puzzling. In the video, the guy implied that if the point could be switched by hand with the motor attached, then it was job done, which was the case here.
The benefit of my location is that I can pop to Hattons and back within an hour, so with a couple of embryonic ideas in mind - before ripping everything up - I popped into the showroom (which is now open again, thankfully) and purchased this:
Yes, it’s another Peco motor AND an extended pin variety!
You see, it occurred to me that when I bought the non extended pin variety the other day, on test, touch one wire and the pin went to the coil that side and stayed there. Touch t’other wire and the pin went across to the other coil - and stayed there! Now, the reason I’m mentioning this is because when I tested the extended pin varieties, they either went to a pin one side but not the other or just hovered in between. Not having a ‘control’ to calibrate them by, having never used them in anger (or at least without a plate /base thingy attached) I wasn’t sure how they were supposed to function. So, what if they are supposed to act just like the non-extended pin variety that I bought the other day? Surely that would mean they’re duff (don’t call me Shirley - yeah, I know) ? So, thought I’d rush out and buy one to test before the shop shut.
Just having a cuppa so will pop out and test it and let you know. If it works, then I’ll still have to centre it, but at least I’ll know the motor works to start with. And if it also works in situ, I’ll pop back to Hattons Tuesday (when the shop’s next open) and buy 5 more.
If not………
Thanks again, Michael. I’ll let you know.
Jonte
Lyndhurstman
Western Thunderer
Hello @jonte
AARGH! I feel your disappointment. It sounds odd to me that that they’ll ALL work one way but not the other. Smacks of some sort of feed issue, to me; especially as you’ve gone to all that trouble to equalise the throw. Before you go removing them all, maybe it’s worth having an an investigation of just one?
Cheers
Jan
AARGH! I feel your disappointment. It sounds odd to me that that they’ll ALL work one way but not the other. Smacks of some sort of feed issue, to me; especially as you’ve gone to all that trouble to equalise the throw. Before you go removing them all, maybe it’s worth having an an investigation of just one?
Cheers
Jan
jonte
Western Thunderer
Thank you, Jan, but don’t worry, it’s a draw back and no more. I’m sure we’ll get to the bottom of it yet!
Incidentally, when I went back out to test, I noticed that ONE of the extended pin variety IS working after all; it’s just that the switch works in the opposite direction to the point for some reason so I’ll just switch the wires round which I reckon/hope should cure it. Sadly, this isn’t the case for the others…..
Good news is that the new point motor I’ve just bought (following a brief test) does indeed work as per the new non-extended point motor described in my previous post which does rather point to the motors being duff.
Tomorrow, I’ll wire it up and test it on one of the points. Rather than centre-ing it as per the video I’ve been following, I’m going to go via the VERY brief instructions provided by Peco and just place it under the point to determine the position in which it switches the point. Then I’ll mark it and fix down the base (provided the holes already there don’t partially impact upon them. Then I will be up the creek!
But I shall remain optimistic for now!
Thanks for your concern, Jan.
Jonte
jonte
Western Thunderer
Hi again, Michael.
It does indeed operate as per the non-extended pin variety mentioned in my last which would indicate that the motors are duff.
Will wire one up and see if I can get it to switch.
cheers,
Jonte
michael080
Western Thunderer
Jonte, I understand you are not very familiar with electric trick, but do you have any possibility to measure the voltage that actuates you motors? One reason for all your trouble might be that the operating voltage is just too low.
I am not familiar with these Peco motors, but I had a similar problem with the solenoids at some Viessmann semaphore signals.
Michael
I am not familiar with these Peco motors, but I had a similar problem with the solenoids at some Viessmann semaphore signals.
Michael