7mm On Heather's workbench - a trio of JLTRT Mk2s

[Heather Kay]

I believe these interiors would be appropriate for an original build Mk2A, probably an SO. The clinchers here would be whether the coach has a central door in the bodyside, and the non-wraparound end doors. The GRP vestibules would have been green in colour.

I'm pleased to see the black-topped tables, though it's obvious the JLTRT versions are much slimmer than the real thing. Hey ho.

 

[Dog Star]

Very useful. Can you put them in the MK2 resources thread too please?

I have asked the FS to copy the post to that thread... I made about 50 images of the coaching stock on that day and as each is about 5MB then there is some serious editing to be done before adding more to the thread.

And yes, Bob, I did find the vac cyl and there is an image of that to come.

regards, Graham

 

[Dog Star]

I believe these interiors would be appropriate for an original build Mk2A, probably an SO. The clinchers here would be whether the coach has a central door in the bodyside, and the non-wraparound end doors. The GRP vestibules would have been green in colour. .

M5241 is a SO... and here are the images which you have requested:-

First the vestibule at the toilet end of the carriage:-



Then the vestibule between the two saloons:-



The vestibule at the non-toilet end is in the earlier post.

Now there is an interesting question about these vestibules. The two images in this post show wood veneers.... similarly the saloon interiors show wood veneer, how much of the interior was done in GRP?

regards, Graham

 

[Heather Kay]

Now there is an interesting question about these vestibules. The two images in this post show wood veneers.... similarly the saloon interiors show wood veneer, how much of the interior was done in GRP?

Only the panels at the ends of the coaches. This remained the case for the 2Bs and Cs. Beyond that, it's a bit too modern for me.

From what I can gather, the Mk2As didn't get the interior update treatment the Bs and Cs received in the early 1980s. This was where the seats were reupholstered (or changed for more recent designs), the saloon walls were finished in a light laminate plastic, and fluorescent lighting was installed in a new ceiling system. I think the Mk2As had been cascaded out of the main trains by then.

Hark at me! I'm getting to be a right Mk2 geek!

 

[Dog Star]

Once upon a time, I thought that Mk.2 carriages were just air-brake stock... and then I discovered reality. So for those of you who want to build JLTRT kits with vac-cyls here are some more photos (of M5241) to show the real deal along with the various boxes which festoon the underneath of this "modern" stock.







Just love the chairs / sleepers to the left of the rail joint... how big is the shovel for packing between those sleepers? As always, helpful captions are welcome.

regards, Graham

 

[richard carr]

Graham

So is this coach one of the very early Mk 2s that had vacuum brakes ?


Richard

 

[Dog Star]

So is this coach one of the very early Mk 2s that had vacuum brakes ?

Seems so... which is why I asked if anyone could provide chapter and verse on the relevant history.

 

[Dog Star]

To continue with photos of M5241... and which relate to Richard's question.









There are some oddities hanging off of the headstock, more than is necessary for the requirements of the lettering on the end of the coach... help please Bob.

regards, Graham

 

[Bob Reid]

Nice collection of photo's Graham!

A few notes as a starter for ten...

It's an original Mk2 (later 2'z') - apart from the number, the usual giveaway if you can see them, are the gangway doors - for Mk2's they were the conventional wood frame/steel panelled door like on the Mk1's - hinged for the toilet end and sliding for the non-toilet. From the 2a's onwards (thru a-f) they were GRP bi-folding doors. Also, only on the Mk2s did they create the 48-seat variant (2+1 seating) as well as the more conventional 64-seat (2+2 seating). for the end vestibules, the Mk2's used a dark green pigment for the GRP panels and on the Mk2a's (including the bi-folding doors, the much lighter leaf green pigment)...

As far as braking, the Mk2's were built with vacuum brake only (the E&G air/disc braked vehicles were an early 70s conversion and the only exception) From the Mk2a's onwards they were all air braked only. During the late 70s and 80's a small number of the Mk2a's were altered to vacuum brake only for the Western & Scottish regions...

Leaving aside the FK's etc. as far as the SO/TSO's were concerned, the Mk2's and Mk2a's were all built with Dual Heating capability.

Apart from that there was little obvious difference between the Mk2's and 2a's - on the inside, the toilets were changed from conventional formica panelling to moulded GRP panels otherwise they were almost identical.

Other points of note, are the missing covers over the toilet water filler pipes - these got in way of the staff filling the tanks and would mysteriously "fall off" in the carriage sidings and rarely be seen for long outside of the main works! On the interior, about the only non-original thing is the seat trim - the 2's and 2a's having the usual blue/green check... and blue arm and headrests, and that late Mk2 table. The interior wood panelling just through age and repeated striping & revarnishing is much darker than it was originally, and some if it appears to have been replaced, the original (with the grain always running top to bottom of the vehicle) was a much warmer and lighter teak (well it was teak faced plywood panelling)...

I'm not sure I see anything out of place or extrta on the headstock Graham - apart from the niphan plug hanging under the left buffer which I assume in preservation has been added for connection to a shore supply.

P.s. I'm sure no one will make the mistake of painting a Mk2 SO in BR Maroon - all (unlike some of the FK's were painted as built in blue &grey only) Preservation societies of course can do whatever they like!

 

[mickoo]

Regarding tables, I think most Mk2 tables could be removed, normally the only ones removed were next to doors for wheelchair access, the tables being stored in the guards compartment for the journey but I have a dim recollection some coaches had a cubicle at one end to store them in?

 

[Dog Star]

So all in all a bit of a rarity - oopps, sorry, oddity living before its time.

There are about another 12 photos of this carriage to be posted, soon.

 

[Bob Reid]

Almost all were screwed on Mick, onto a bracket that hung off the bodyside panel below the bodylight and onto the floor - at least on the SO's - one at the ends may have been made removable with the clip in brackets shown in grahams photo for wheelchair access, but I don't recall it being done.

 

[Bob Reid]

So all in all a bit of a rarity - opps, sorry, oddity living before its time.

There are about another 12 photos of this carriage to be posted, soon.

Rare in the sense Graham that it's almost quite original and looking in good nick!

 

[mickoo]

Almost all were screwed on Mick, onto a bracket that hung off the bodyside panel below the bodylight and onto the floor - at least on the SO's - one at the ends may have been made removable with the clip in brackets shown in grahams photo for wheelchair access, but I don't recall it being done.

Bob, all the Mk2s I traveled on in Anglia, or as many as I can recall had tables or a table missing by the doors, and those were always the empty seats.....because there was no table.

I'll take your word for the fixed ones but do recall banging my knees on a few that came away with the clips, could well of been ones near the coach mid doors and were actually designed to come off LOL. Or as was more likely one of our gang sitting on the end of the table to chat to his mates across the way and the end coming out of the wall, throwing all our gear and drinks over him, depositing him on his backside in the walk way and to add insult the table smacking him on the back of the head!.

 

[Dog Star]

So all in all a bit of a rarity - oopps, sorry, oddity living before its time.

Not quite...

Here is a link to the Vintage Carriage Trust survey record for M5241. As an example of the relevant lot, this carriage is not a rarity for the VCT lists records of thirteen carriages from the same Lot... the example at the Mid-Hants Rly was scrapped after a fire... another has not been seen since 2001... one is in Northern Ireland... which leaves ten as probable preserved vehicles in the UK.

regards, Graham