On Heather's Workbench - Premier Line Backwaters

[oldravendale]

Sorry again.

I'm not navigating this properly as there was a post here advising how I avoid the above embarrassment. When I logged in it had gone and now I can't find it. I think I'm suffering from too much sherbert so will go away until tomorrow.

Brian

 

[Heather Kay]

I'm interested in your thoughts and comments, and the last thing I want to do is take business away from Pat Legg

Hi Brian, and thank you for your kind words of encouragement.

I'd be very interested in your scratch-built version of the telltale flags, so please do share. You're welcome to post in this thread, but it might be more useful to the wider WT community and suited to a thread of its own here on the forum. I am aware of the fragility of the CPL items, though luckily I've only damaged one during during this build so far. I think I'm likely to still buy Pat's telltales for future use, but replace some of the cast rodding and solder it all up properly.

Regarding colour balancing photos, indeed Photoshop will do the job well. While I have Photoshop installed on one of my machines (the one I keep around for when old design clients want something done, although that's an ever-decreasing circle these days, thankfully), and I've used Photoshop professionally for more years than I can remember, I can't actually remember how to balance to a white or grey off the top of my head! Something is rattling around in the brain cell about an eye dropper and some dialogue box or other, but beyond that I am currently flummoxed.

Seat covers. Bill Bedford provides a relatively simple free PDF of generic interiors, which can be printed off and used. They are designed for 4mm use. I have copies of the files here, and I did consider them for this LNWR build, but they are bit too plain for 7mm scale use, and scaled up may well not fit correctly to the particular kit seats I'm working with. That's why I went down the bespoke route in the end. Apart from Bill's, I've not really noticed anyone else providing printed interiors. I can see a deep rabbit hole I could tumble down if I choose to follow up on this idea!

After a day of rest, and some over-indulgence, yesterday, I plan to continue with the fiddly-diddly painting of the coach sides. I can't help but think there must be an easier way of doing this, but it eludes me at present. My mind boggles at anyone creating models in 4mm or smaller with this kind of livery: I thought I was a bit mad to attempt it again!

 

[oldravendale]

You have the option to edit or even delete posts once they have been written, so for the long copied text you did you can simply click delete the post....and it will be gone. Other posts you can edit at will and then resubmit.

 

[oldravendale]

Well obviously I've not got it quite right yet but have established how to edit messages so thanks to you and to Graham. Actually, having made a partial cods of this post I now know how to deal in future so will try to avoid embarrassment.

Best regards.

Brian

 

[Heather Kay]

You'll get the hang of it in the end, Brian. If you really get stuck, contact one of the admins and ask them to sort it out for you.

 

[oldravendale]

I'd be very interested in your scratch-built version of the telltale flags, so please do share. You're welcome to post in this thread, but it might be more useful to the wider WT community and suited to a thread of its own here on the forum. .

Regarding colour balancing photos, indeed Photoshop will do the job well.

Seat covers. Bill Bedford provides a relatively simple free PDF of generic interiors, I can see a deep rabbit hole I could tumble down if I choose to follow up on this idea!

Thanks for these comments, Heather. When I get back in to the workshop in the new year I'll take a photo or two of the end of the Maunsells. I'll try to include a couple of prototype photos too so all can see the compromises I've made and decide for themselves whether they are acceptable or not. As you suggest, I'll start up a thread specialising just on this. It's a nice short subject so should enable me to get the hang of starting a thread from scratch, answering any subsequent comments and editing those replies properly.

I have to do some work with colours and script on the Met Railway electric loco I have to build, and probably with the Dreadnought coaches which will follow, so your comments here will be very helpful. I'll make a trip up to the LT Museum in Covent Garden before I start the build with my trust 18 % grey card. Actually the script and style of the lettering for these locos and stock when in LT livery is a bit of a nightmare but we'll come to that later.

Great help there about the Bill Bedford pdf. I'll be having a look at those later. It seems a possibility for someone to do as a purchasable pdf, after all, card building kits are now available as downloadable pdfs and seem to be great for creating buildings quickly while the slower and more detailed builds are in hand. Our club uses them all the time now. It's not a great leap of faith to create some generic interiors which would be far better than my efforts.

I say again, Heather, these vehicles of yours/your clients look lovely. A most interesting thread which I've enjoyed through out.

Best regards.

Brian

PS - I hope I've been successful in editing your message down so that this reponse makes some sense. We'll see when it actually gets posted!

 

[Heather Kay]

After a couple of days enforced festivities (not really), I got back to the workbench today.

I'm still trying to get the paintwork completed to my satisfaction. I fear it's not going to hit my exacting standard, so I'll have to accept "as good as it gets".



I've been over the ventilator bonnets with the lake. They'll need another coat when they're dry. Then, inevitably, I'll have to go over the white again. It's a never ending round of overpainting and retouching, and it begins to pall after about the fifteenth go.



I found an reddish brown in the paint box for the sidelight mouldings. As you can see, there's still some fiddly painting to do around the drop lights and ventilators.

If it's of interest, I'll make a list of the paint numbers I've used for the detail bits towards the end of the build.

 

[Heather Kay]

It does occur to me that the Tommies would probably not be wearing their tin helmets whilst on a train.

I agree. They'd probably have their soft caps for this job, but as you say, that's what I got with the castings.

 

[Heather Kay]

A brief update: I have completed the lining! As I type, the underframes and bogies have been lightly weathered, and the bodyshells have a first coat of gloss varnish. They may get a second coat if I deem the finish not quite glossy enough for the methfix transfers.

I did my best with the lining, but there are limits. An important lesson to learn is don't add door ventilator bonnets prior to painting, especially if they are also lined out. It was a pig of a job trying to get a clean paint finish around the bonnets in situ. There was glue, solder and all kinds, and one or two bonnets that weren't even properly positioned in the frame. I've not even bothered to run the ochre line round the door top panel, because it would only make a bad job worse.

I have done a white line everywhere that should have one. It's a nice finishing touch, and might help to draw the eye from the not-quite-so-clean lining elsewhere.

Photos later, if the varnish dries quickly.

 

[Heather Kay]

Here are shots showing my rather embarrassing lining attempts.



The cab end of the driving trailer. The yellow ochre was done by bow pen and enamel paint, drawn by hand around the half-etch panelling. The somewhat variable width bothers me, and I considered literally starting the whole process again from primer at one point. The white lines are indian ink applied via a 0.25mm Rötring Rapidograph.



Part of the trailer coach. You can sort of see why lining around the ventilator bonnet frame is all but impossible.

I am a little disappointed by the lining. I'm sure I can do better, but as the old joke goes "I wouldn't start from here if I want to get there". I can't think of a better way of painting this form of livery, either.

Anyway, things are currently varnished and I'm going to let that dry for a good day or so before I consider transfers. During the interregnum, I am studying comprehensive instructions for building a certain Mk1 coach kit.

 

[Rob Pulham]

Apologies if this is a granny and eggs moment Heather, As long as it's on over a gloss finish you can pull in thicker lines in enamel with a small brush and some white spirit as long as the lining hasn't been on too long - I have left it a couple of hours and tidied lines up successfully in the past. I would also suggest that we are seeing quite cruel close ups and I am sure it looks much better at normal viewing distances

 

[Mike W]

Don't be so hard on yourself Heather. The white lines around the doors are particularly fine and neat. Although putting the yellow on the panel rather than the bead is not correct, I've seen it on carriages on some of the best layouts, so don't beat yourself up about it! Looks like they will be quite satisfactory when completed. Better than I could do!

Mike

 

[Heather Kay]

Although putting the yellow on the panel rather than the bead is not correct

The problem is there is no bead to speak of. The real thing would be convex, where the model - by necessity I suppose due to the production technique - is concave. It might be technically possible to run the pen along the upper edge of the half-etch, but I wonder how critical the paint consistency would have to be to ensure a consistent width with no blobs.

Thanks for the kind words, folks. I'm letting the varnish dry nice and hard for the next day or so. Depending on how I think it looks then, I might repaint the panels and start over, or I might just plough on with the transfers. I'd like to see these coaches finished and delivered so the bench is completely clear for the next build.

 

[Heather Kay]

There has been much needed progress on these coaches in the past couple of days.

Happy that the varnish was quite tough enough to withstand handling, I set about fitting interiors. You may recall the kits appear to have shipped with wood, planed to a seat profile, which was intended to be cut to length. Well, I found, rather late, of the four lengths I had in the boxes there were only two pairs of each - and each pair was a different profile! A quick rummage around the various storage areas and I located another pair of strips near enough the same profile, and set about making them fit.



Being non-corridor stock, I needed to cut compartment walls. I found a single brass one in the box - there may have been many more originally, but who knows where they ended up before the kits were sold on - which I turned into a template to let me mark out styrene sheet.



The shape of the compartments is only rough. They will be finagled into the body shells, and the precise shape is not critical as they are held in place by the seating.



A few minutes with the razor saw, and most of the four strips had been chopped into 60mm lengths for the trailer coach. You can see the different profiles here, with the deeper headrest on the left. Worryingly, this left insufficient to fit out the driving trailer. Back to the storage areas to see what could be found.



Meanwhile, the compartments were glued to the seat strips. Some kind of plastic solvent was deemed sufficient for this. Once things had set enough, stray edges were sanded back, and things were test fitted into the body shell.



The sides of the coach needed to be gently held open to let the seat assemblies drop in. Was I glad I hadn't spent time adding more bracing struts along the bottom! Some hackery was required to clear fixing nuts in each end compartment, and some adjustment was required to fit each set of seats in their places. Once I was happy, I numbered the base of each seat assembly to identify the location in the coach for later refitting.



Each seat had the printed interior sheet fixed in place. I used SprayMount for convenience. I have a track record of using this contact adhesive for such jobs, and I've found it goes off with sufficient grip after soaking into the wood and paper to not flake away over time. The paper inserts were slightly short in places, and even after some more fettling for fit, I felt it safest to daub some paint over the plain wood to disguise it when in the coach itself.



One of the trial fittings, and things are looking pretty good. Those seats that are not a tight fit at this stage were given a dob of glue to fix them to the styrene floor sheet. I haven't fitted the advertisements yet, because to be quite honest I'm not sure you can even see them with the roof on. This matter is currently under consideration.



Here is the roof in place, and it all looks rather smart - aside from the squiffy paint job.

So, that's the trailer coach. What about the driving trailer? Having run short of suitable wooden seating, I had been foraging in the various stores for some alternatives. I dimly recalled a set of Cavalier plastic seating strips, and eventually I found them. (Cavalier Coaches General Coach Plastic Seating Strip, C-G14, 1200mm per pack.)

They were pretty much ideal for the job, almost matching the wooden section for profile. Obviously, it wouldn't work to mix and match wood and plastic in the same coach, so the driving trailer was chosen for the plastic variant.



Much the same procedure was done with the compartment sections, seats glued in place and so on. This is the trial fitting, and you can see the seats have been scored. This is to give whichever adhesive I use for fitting the interior sheets some sort of key to hang on to.

I wanted to fit the interiors before I applied the transfers. Glazing will be left until the last, as will fitting the passengers. I also have to construct the driving cab, which I might tackle tomorrow for a bit of light relief!

 

[Heather Kay]

Today I set about the driving cab, I believe more properly referred to as the driving compartment.

There's precious little detail about for this area of the driving trailer coach. I do have a driver's eye view of a typical LNWR motor train control compartment, which gives useful information regarding the driving position, location of the handbrake, setting out the controls and so on. I have little to go on for the side panels and doors, and inference alone for the back of compartment where it adjoins the luggage space.

Bearing in mind this particular coach was rebuilt from a standard brake third, I've made some educated guesses about things I can't confirm - including reference to the only plan of a driving trailer I can find, which is of a much later Stanier period LMS coach.

With that lot in mind, I've decided there may well have been a door in the compartment wall to access the luggage area from the cab. This is a feature of the LMS design, although in that case the luggage area doubled as a proper guard's compartment. In the LNWR coach, either the guard travelled in a passenger compartment, or perched in the driver's compartment at some stage. I can find no evidence of any seating in the driver's compartment, all images showing the driver standing at the controls in the centre window.



I set about the driving coach with the digital vernier, took some vital statistics, and scribbled thoughts on a jotting pad. Here you can see my notes, and some cast bits from the Bits Box. I marked things out on some thin styrene sheet, carefully cut out the window apertures to be just a gnat's over the actual size required, and scribed some planking lines according to photos and my whim.



I plan to use microscope slide glazing on these coaches, and I engineered slots into the driving end panel to receive it. Hopefully I can slide cut glass down into the space once the cab is fitted out and painted. The same feature will be used for the side panels in the cab, but I'll glue the glass directly behind the window apertures for the passenger compartments.



Here's the back wall divider of the driving compartment. The appearance of wood grain on the planks is entirely accidental, caused by scraping back after scribing. I'm still not sure of the colour I should paint things, so I'm leaving this to mull around my head while I read up on things a bit more.



Finally, an impression of how the end insert will look when in place. I've got to build a simple plinth to disguise the fixing nuts. I hope the side panels are as easy to create as the front and back have been. I enjoyed scraping about with styrene after wrestling with brass for the rest of this kit.

 

[Heather Kay]

I got the mojo back for this build earlier. I'm so close to actually finishing, yet there are times when I seem to be bogged down.



First task was to detail the driving compartment. If you can find a copy, there's a rather superb driver's eye view reproduced as Plate 253, LMS Miscellany Volume Three, by H N Twells (OPC). It shows the driver's position, his controls, various gauges and pipes, the manually-operated wiper, bars across the windows and the location of the handbrake wheel. It also shows a later colour scheme, probably late LMS or early BR, with what I assume might be Venetian Red lower panels and Buff above.

According to Nelson, the LNWR luggage and brake van compartments were finished in "pea green".

Various gauges of wire, scraps of styrene, and some spare castings from the Bits Box let me concoct a reasonable facsimile of the original. There are some elements I haven't included, partly because they're not clear on the photo.
It's quite likely the unclear parts won't actually be that visible when finished, so I've stuck to the main components you see above.



So, pea green it is. This is the first coat. Once the second coat has gone on and dried, I'll pick out the details. The central control is the train brake, the one on the right is labelled "vacuum control". Guessing from the black and white tonal values of the original photo, I will paint the brake control and pipe in black, the vacuum control upper parts in red and pipe in black. Other parts will be drybrushed to bring them out in relief.

 

[Mike W]

Looks nice Heather. Pea green is correct - I've seen it on grounded bodies.
Mike

 

[Heather Kay]

Another step closer to the finishing line: transfers are on the driving trailer, and I'm very close to properly fitting out the driving compartment area. Just the protective varnish top coat, and the glazing to do and this coach will be finished.



The HMRS Methfix transfers look nice, though there's a tiny misregistration of the yellow on the numeral 5. I must remember to clean all the stray fibres before I varnish over things.



The business end of the driving trailer. I know it's probably wrong, but I spent ages studying photos to work out where the number went. The general rule seems to be the third panel from the end, or the panel below the third window in from each end. The LNWR crest goes below the number, whatever. There is sometimes a scrolled L&NWR once or twice on a side, but it doesn't appear every time or on every coach. I've left it off this coach because of the number of doors making it hard to realistically position it.







I've mocked up the various cab interior components in their places. A small amount of fettling to clear the roof this end, and a bit of careful work to tidy the side interior panels, but we're nearly there.

 

[Mike W]

Heather, you are right to leave off the scroll or monogram. They had been discontinued by the date of your model. That fact also helps us who work on full sized carriages, as you can't buy full sized monograms any more!

Mike

 

[Heather Kay]

Heather, you are right to leave off the scroll or monogram. They had been discontinued by the date of your model. That fact also helps us who work on full sized carriages, as you can't buy full sized monograms any more!

Mike

*phew*

With a fair wind and no interruptions, I hope to letter and glaze the trailing coach today. Varnish (brushed for convenience), possible mild weathering, installing passengers and fixing roofs in place, and we'll be done!