7mm On Heather's Workbench - three is a magic number

[Heather Kay]

Ah! Have those carriages be seen as the (sometime) occupants of the carriage siding at Hartley Hill?

No, they're from our mutual friend Peter Mann. Funnily enough, he bought the part-finished kits from us when we were offloading stocks we were never going to finish. Now I'm going to finish them anyway! Odd how the world turns.

The livery will be a fiddle, especially as someone fitted all the commode handles already!

*looks sternly across the room*

I've done the LNWR "plum and spilt milk" before on a 6-wheeled picnic saloon and full brake, so it doesn't hold any particular fears for me. I have the paint in stock, and the "spilt milk" seems about right to what I expect it should be. Some modern restorations on full size coaches seem to have way too much blue in them. I'm considering attempting my aluminium foil masking technique again, even though it will entail about a bazillion panels!

 

[Ressaldar]

LNWR livery? now that is going to cause much anguish and not for you... there is a 3-set here and a similar set nearer to you. The two sets were finished by different painters and the "white" may well be different shades.

regards, Graham

not to mention the Black either.

cheers

Mike

 

[Dog Star]

I've done the LNWR "plum and spilt milk" before on a 6-wheeled picnic saloon and full brake, so it doesn't hold any particular fears for me. I have the paint in stock, and the "spilt milk" seems about right to what I expect it should be. Some modern restorations on full size coaches seem to have way too much blue in them.

John has said to me that one of the sets has a "spilt milk" colour which is "bluer" than the other set.

 

[Heather Kay]

I know we're veering off topic here, but it's my thread and I don't care!

Jack Nelson's "LNWR Portrayed", which is deemed the bible of many things LNWR, outlines the coach livery thus:

The so called "spilt milk" colour was obtained with paint composed of 1lb. ultramarine blue to 1cwt. white lead.
...
L.N.W.R. "plum" is produced with an undercoat of equal parts black and indian red covered with three parts of purple lake to one of alizarin carmine in clear varnish.

The reason I bring this up is, as I said, I've seen two preserved coaches painted in what can only be described as duck egg blue and plum. Knowing paint technology has moved on since the 1900s, I am convinced the paint was mixed incorrectly, and under artificial light. In daylight, the spilt milk was most definitely off.

I'm trying to see if I can find photos I took at the time, but the three of us in the party who saw the colour all commented on how it looked totally wrong. Aha! Found it:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/snaptophobic/5143550346/

It doesn't look too bad in that shot, but I remember it being much greener in real life.

As for the motor train set soon to be on the workbench, I shall use the paint as mixed (it's either Phoenix or Precision, can't recall right now which). All that shenanigans with black, red and varnish would be lovely, but a little over the top I think!

 

[john lewsey]

Hi just poking my nose in yes I have two sets painted by different people and as would be expected they are different my favourite one are the sidelines coaches the other set of arc roof coaches and painted by someone else I'm not really that happy with as Heather said duck egg blue in fact I'm about to do the insides of those as we speak (or write )

 

[Tony West]

Something else that needs to be borne in mind is that when these paints were applied originally they were sealed in by coats of 'finishing varnish', which of course yellowed over time and so would have effected the shade somewhat.
So coaches painted at different points in time would look subtly different .
I would imagine that the slight blue tint combined with a yellowing top coat might well produce some interesting 'greenish' tints , perhaps ??.
Cheers Tony.

 

[Heather Kay]

I would imagine that the slight blue tint combined with a yellowing top coat might well produce some interesting 'greenish' tints , perhaps ??.

This is very true. I suspect that's why the original spec including the handful of ultramarine blue as an attempt to counteract the natural yellowing of the varnish with age. It's amazing when you consider how much effort went into painting wooden coaches and then compare that with the pretty much single coat required with modern paints. It must be a nightmare for preservation societies if they want to be as authentic as possible, especially as it is impossible to use lead in paint any more.

As we modellers are pretty much at the mercy of the paints supplied by the trade, although I understand at least one builder has paint mixed to his own specification, we have to go with what we can get. If I was likely to be producing dozens of LNWR coaches, I might go down the custom mix route myself.

 

[Heather Kay]

We're not quite done with this saga. There's the wrapping up. *ho ho ho*

With builds I've done for Richard Carr, packing the finished models has been simply a case of wrapping tissue round the coach, followed by bubble wrap, and then laying them on their sides in the original JLTRT white box. With the Colletts, there arises the issue of glass, and fragility thereof. My "standard" wrapping and stuffing method will inevitably end up with broken panes. How, then, to pack the models in their boxes, if only for delivery purposes via the back of my car?

I've been letting the problem stew in the back of my mind for a while. Yesterday, I finally came up with what I think ought to be a workable solution. First, here's the problem:



The box is big enough, but not deep enough to let the coach remain on its wheels. I could hack the box about to allow height, and stuff the sides and ends to prevent movement. I've already warned the client he'll need to find better long-term storage for these models if he intends to transport them to play trains on other people's layouts.

I do prefer to lay the coach on a side, though, which is why I've come up with a more complicated method of packing.

The problem is to provide support to the sides of the coach while it's laying on its side, but without letting the weight of the coach rest on any of the glazing.



I always retain as much of the original packing material from the kits as I can. I have lots of sheets of the acid-free tissue and plenty of bubble wrap to hand. I set about making pads to support the coach at strategic points - this is for the brake third, so there's a large area of side around the centre which can take a large pad - and a long pad along the side where the wheels will sit. Once the box is packed, the flaps can be taped shut, and the box stored so the coach is wheels down.

That's the plan. After some minutes with bubble wrap, scissors and masking tape, I got this:



One or two small pads over the bogies, at the ends and centre, a covering sheet of bubble wrap, and plenty of clear orientation markings on the box ought to be sufficient. Obviously, I haven't wrapped the coach in tissue yet, but I'm still perfecting the construction.

While hacking the boxes about might be quicker in the short term, and would probably be sufficient for the journey to the south coast for delivery, I like to think my more fussy method means the boxes can continue to be used for storage until a better solution is found by the client.

 

[daifly]

Heather

Having read the correspondence on the Yahoo 7mm forum, you might want your own copy of this.

Cheers, Dave

 

[Heather Kay]

Heather

Having read the correspondence on the Yahoo 7mm forum, you might want your own copy of this.

Cheers, Dave

I love books, but I have to draw the line somewhere. If I get a lot of enquiries after pre-Grouping LNWR liveried rolling stock, I'll acquire a copy.

 

[Tony West]

Heather

Having read the correspondence on the Yahoo 7mm forum, you might want your own copy of this.

Cheers, Dave

An absolutely excellent book !!!...cheaper copies do appear on ebay !!.
Cheers Tony.

 

[Ressaldar]

Hi Heather,

if I could ask you to cast your mind back to post #59 - the bogie springing arrangement, are the wires single pieces passing right through the casting or are there four separate wires? I have now received the missing axlebox keeper plates from Laurie and will be making a start on the Inspection Saloon underframe and bogies this week - story and photos will appear in my thread.

cheers

Mike

 

[Heather Kay]

if I could ask you to cast your mind back to post #59 - the bogie springing arrangement, are the wires single pieces passing right through the casting or are there four separate wires?

I used four wires, but with hindsight a pair of wires passing through the casting might have been a better solution.

 

[Ressaldar]

Hi Heather,

many thanks for the speedy reply, I think I'll go for the pair and see how I get on.

cheers

Mike

 

[Ressaldar]

Good morning Teacher,

I have just offered up the bogie fixing blocks to the apertures in the floor and guess what - the castings measure 14 x 17.5 and the aperture 12 x 17. I note that you "cleaned up the castings" was this just a quick pass of the file to remove any flash or was it major grinding as I would seem to be my case. Care being needed to maintain the distance setting geometry. In the meantime, I have emailed Laurie for replacements.

thank you - a Kentish apple will be forwarded when they become ripe.

Mike

 

[Heather Kay]

Good morning Teacher,

It was just a quick pass with the file to smooth off mould marks on the sides so the block wouldn't catch on the slot. It sounds like you may have the inserts for another kit - does the moulding have what looks like wood grain on it?

I find the quickest way to get service from Laurie is by telephone. He does respond to emails, but he has the phone with him when he's out and about the factory.

 

[Ressaldar]

Hi Heather,

I too find the phone best, but I seem to have used that route so much lately I thought that an email would make a change, if there is no response by Friday, I'll get on the dog and bone.

The mouldings are free from any graining.

cheers

Mike

 

[Heather Kay]

if there is no response by Friday, I'll get on the dog and bone.

Tell him I said "Hi!".

I also hope you get the right mountings, because fitting the ones you have won't be easy.