Heather Kay
Western Thunderer
I didn't dare touch anything on the workbench while it all unfolded on the wireless. That final third umpire decision was a true "hold your breath" moment!
7mm On Heather's Workbench - three is a magic number
- Thread starter Heather Kay
- Start date
I didn't dare touch anything on the workbench while it all unfolded on the wireless. That final third umpire decision was a true "hold your breath" moment!
Heather Kay
Western Thunderer
A quick update, before I assemble the C54 and take its piccie...
I've found the secret to cutting the glass. If I'd actually bothered to absorb the information I found online I'd not have had the trouble I encountered. Essentially, the secret boils down to this:
Cut the slips on a hard surface.
I was using a cutting mat, which obviously flexes under even the mild pressure needed for the cutting tip. This led to random fractures and vocabulary extension exercises. Cutting on a hard surface - I used a sheet of paxolin - and it is a dream.
As a measure of how much difference it makes, trimming the largest corridor side panes on the E127, of which there are but three, took four slips before I got one to work properly. I probably got through nearly ten slips before I had glazed those three windows successfully. (Happily, I used the failed attempts for door droplights and the thin panels either side of the doors on the compartment side.) This morning, I managed to cut all the large corridor panes, all the compartment side windows, and all the door windows for the C54 in one session, with three wasted slips.
Live and learn.
Right, I'm off to assemble the last of the trio. Then it'll be end handrails, final retouching around the ends, and a spot of black paint to finish the ends in proper Swindon style. Thanks to Graham B for pointing me at that little detail.
I've found the secret to cutting the glass. If I'd actually bothered to absorb the information I found online I'd not have had the trouble I encountered. Essentially, the secret boils down to this:
Cut the slips on a hard surface.
I was using a cutting mat, which obviously flexes under even the mild pressure needed for the cutting tip. This led to random fractures and vocabulary extension exercises. Cutting on a hard surface - I used a sheet of paxolin - and it is a dream.
As a measure of how much difference it makes, trimming the largest corridor side panes on the E127, of which there are but three, took four slips before I got one to work properly. I probably got through nearly ten slips before I had glazed those three windows successfully. (Happily, I used the failed attempts for door droplights and the thin panels either side of the doors on the compartment side.) This morning, I managed to cut all the large corridor panes, all the compartment side windows, and all the door windows for the C54 in one session, with three wasted slips.
Live and learn.
Right, I'm off to assemble the last of the trio. Then it'll be end handrails, final retouching around the ends, and a spot of black paint to finish the ends in proper Swindon style. Thanks to Graham B for pointing me at that little detail.
Heather Kay
Western Thunderer
The C54 is now assembled.
Mr Glum works quite well, leaning nonchalantly on the end of the compartment partition while his last bottle of "brahn" digests.
Inevitably, not everything goes according to plan. Somehow, I managed to glue the corridor side adrift of the floor - I suspect the floor has a subtle downward bias at that end for some reason.
Now, while I've used the Hafixs superglue to assemble sides and ends to the floor, I was able to gently prize the side away from the end and floor and realign it. I use spots of glue, rather than run it as a seam, which may be why I can still correct such problems without major damage. I understand Hafixs also cures to full strength over a 24 hour period, so I was still able to break the join as only a few minutes had elapsed. There's still a slight mismatch on the solebar line on the nearer door in this picture, but I'll have to live with that.
On the C54 and E127 I found I needed to carve away small bits of inside of the roof and end mouldings to enable the roofs to actually fit between the ends. Aside from that, the kits haven't needed much major surgery - if you don't count the brake cylinder fitting!
I shall now take a break from proceedings, as it's getting a little too warm for comfort in the workshop. I think the final QC fettling will happen tomorrow.
Mr Glum works quite well, leaning nonchalantly on the end of the compartment partition while his last bottle of "brahn" digests.
Inevitably, not everything goes according to plan. Somehow, I managed to glue the corridor side adrift of the floor - I suspect the floor has a subtle downward bias at that end for some reason.
Now, while I've used the Hafixs superglue to assemble sides and ends to the floor, I was able to gently prize the side away from the end and floor and realign it. I use spots of glue, rather than run it as a seam, which may be why I can still correct such problems without major damage. I understand Hafixs also cures to full strength over a 24 hour period, so I was still able to break the join as only a few minutes had elapsed. There's still a slight mismatch on the solebar line on the nearer door in this picture, but I'll have to live with that.
On the C54 and E127 I found I needed to carve away small bits of inside of the roof and end mouldings to enable the roofs to actually fit between the ends. Aside from that, the kits haven't needed much major surgery - if you don't count the brake cylinder fitting!
I shall now take a break from proceedings, as it's getting a little too warm for comfort in the workshop. I think the final QC fettling will happen tomorrow.
Heather Kay
Western Thunderer
I cleared the bench and took some better profiles shots, like the official Swindon photographer, mainly to send to the client so he can see where things have got to. These aren't the official official photos. They'll wait until the models are properly completed and passed for traffic. 
Diagram C54 Third, corridor side.
Diagram C54 Third, compartment side.
Diagram E127 Composite First/Third, corridor side.
Diagram E127 Composite First/Third, compartment side.
Diagram D94 Right-hand Brake Third, corridor side.
Diagram D94 Right-hand Brake Third, compartment side.
The colour reproduction vexes me. I fixed the camera on daylight fluorescent and fixed aperture, but the cream has come out very yellow. It's a mite paler in real life. I'll have to think about getting the colour balance right for the proper photo session.
Diagram C54 Third, corridor side.
Diagram C54 Third, compartment side.
Diagram E127 Composite First/Third, corridor side.
Diagram E127 Composite First/Third, compartment side.
Diagram D94 Right-hand Brake Third, corridor side.
Diagram D94 Right-hand Brake Third, compartment side.
The colour reproduction vexes me. I fixed the camera on daylight fluorescent and fixed aperture, but the cream has come out very yellow. It's a mite paler in real life. I'll have to think about getting the colour balance right for the proper photo session.
Heather Kay
Western Thunderer
Progress report for almost the end of the week is that little got done while the weather decided to make any activity all but impossible. I kept myself occupied doing research for the next couple of projects.
This evening I cleaned up some of the end fitting issues, dabbed some black paint about to make good, and tidied up the paint along the cant rail gutters. Tomorrow I'll top coat varnish them for protection, and have a nice long think about making six sets of end handrails that all look similar to each other. The ride height is a little high, so I shall experiment by taking out one of the two spacing washers used for each bogie pivot. If the FS flanges avoid hitting the roof keeper bolt heads, that will be fine.
After that, I think I will be able to declare the triplets complete. Delivery is scheduled for August 3, apparently. Shortly after my bank account will be slightly healthier in aspect.
This evening I cleaned up some of the end fitting issues, dabbed some black paint about to make good, and tidied up the paint along the cant rail gutters. Tomorrow I'll top coat varnish them for protection, and have a nice long think about making six sets of end handrails that all look similar to each other. The ride height is a little high, so I shall experiment by taking out one of the two spacing washers used for each bogie pivot. If the FS flanges avoid hitting the roof keeper bolt heads, that will be fine.
After that, I think I will be able to declare the triplets complete. Delivery is scheduled for August 3, apparently. Shortly after my bank account will be slightly healthier in aspect.
john lewsey
Western Thunderer
I popped over to Heathers today to see these 
Heather Kay
Western Thunderer
It's the fiddly final details that seem to take so long.
Today, gangway covers and end handrails. All that's needed now is a lick of satin varnish on the latter and I think these coaches will be ready for their official portraits.
The gangway covers.
In real life, these were canvas, akin to wagon tarpaulins. I recreate them using standard 1in masking tape, coloured black with a felt tip pen. Trimmed to a rectangle about the right size, it's then carefully wheedled into place with tweezers.
I fully expect the masking tape will lose its tack over the years. However, it shouldn't become dislodged under normal operation.
While I was at it, I trimmed a "floor" for each gangway, as no passenger would be expected to negotiate a concertina floor!
Gad! These macro close-ups show every hair, spot, grolly, hickey, brushmark and splodge. In real life, it looks much nicer.
The handrails are the traditional bent brass wire. I chemically blackened a couple of lengths of 0.7mm straight wire to begin with. Having drilled holes for the top and bottom fixings, I formed a U at the top, and worked my way down. The curve is formed by gently bending between my fingers - nothing more scientific than that. The bottom fixing is a right-angled bend which is glued into hole in the end of the coach.
This pair was my test piece, which is why they're not blackened yet. Since the roof of each coach is intentionally not glued in place, the top of the handrails is formed to be carefully sprung into its hole. This should allow the handrails to be sprung out if the roof needs to be removed at some stage in the future, should a glass panel be broken, or a passenger go a-wandering.
As you can see, there are still one or two paint anomalies to correct on this coach, but once they're done they will be officially complete. All I need to do to complete the task is find a way to transport them so there is no undue pressure out on the sides when they're packed, and deliver them to the client in a fortnight.
I will round up my thoughts on this build in a later post, but let me just acknowledge the help and encouragement from everyone who has been following progress. In particular, thanks to Graham Beare (Dog Star) for material assistance in lending me some reference books from his library, as well as helping our mutual discovery of key details of Collett coaches that had previously escaped some notice! Graham, I shall be sending copies of the final portraits to John Lewis. His in-depth knowledge of the prototypes was freely given upon asking.
Today, gangway covers and end handrails. All that's needed now is a lick of satin varnish on the latter and I think these coaches will be ready for their official portraits.
The gangway covers.
In real life, these were canvas, akin to wagon tarpaulins. I recreate them using standard 1in masking tape, coloured black with a felt tip pen. Trimmed to a rectangle about the right size, it's then carefully wheedled into place with tweezers.
I fully expect the masking tape will lose its tack over the years. However, it shouldn't become dislodged under normal operation.
While I was at it, I trimmed a "floor" for each gangway, as no passenger would be expected to negotiate a concertina floor!
Gad! These macro close-ups show every hair, spot, grolly, hickey, brushmark and splodge. In real life, it looks much nicer.
The handrails are the traditional bent brass wire. I chemically blackened a couple of lengths of 0.7mm straight wire to begin with. Having drilled holes for the top and bottom fixings, I formed a U at the top, and worked my way down. The curve is formed by gently bending between my fingers - nothing more scientific than that. The bottom fixing is a right-angled bend which is glued into hole in the end of the coach.
This pair was my test piece, which is why they're not blackened yet. Since the roof of each coach is intentionally not glued in place, the top of the handrails is formed to be carefully sprung into its hole. This should allow the handrails to be sprung out if the roof needs to be removed at some stage in the future, should a glass panel be broken, or a passenger go a-wandering.
As you can see, there are still one or two paint anomalies to correct on this coach, but once they're done they will be officially complete. All I need to do to complete the task is find a way to transport them so there is no undue pressure out on the sides when they're packed, and deliver them to the client in a fortnight.
I will round up my thoughts on this build in a later post, but let me just acknowledge the help and encouragement from everyone who has been following progress. In particular, thanks to Graham Beare (Dog Star) for material assistance in lending me some reference books from his library, as well as helping our mutual discovery of key details of Collett coaches that had previously escaped some notice! Graham, I shall be sending copies of the final portraits to John Lewis. His in-depth knowledge of the prototypes was freely given upon asking.
S
SteveO
Guest
Very nice Heather, almost tempted to ship off my Derby Lightweight in your direction...
3 LINK
Western Thunderer
Good afternoon Heather,
I have recently completed a JLTRT B set, and as to the setting of the ride height I ended up filing down the roof keeper bolt heads until the drive slot had almost disappeared. Hopefully I have left just enough of an" indent " should I need to gain entry at a later date
. I should mention that these coaches were fitted with F/S wheels, but even in S7 I think you would still need to skim the heads of the bolts slightly to clear the flanges.
Regards,
Martyn.
I have recently completed a JLTRT B set, and as to the setting of the ride height I ended up filing down the roof keeper bolt heads until the drive slot had almost disappeared. Hopefully I have left just enough of an" indent " should I need to gain entry at a later date
. I should mention that these coaches were fitted with F/S wheels, but even in S7 I think you would still need to skim the heads of the bolts slightly to clear the flanges.Regards,
Martyn.
Heather Kay
Western Thunderer
That is pretty much what I've ended up doing.
I'm sure I've said before I am pretty convinced many of these kits are never actually built to run on proper model railways, otherwise such niggles wouldn't need to be corrected.
Anyway, I've been out photosnapticating around Faversham today, so I'm just reviewing my haul of images before I get back to the bench to finish things up.
Heather Kay
Western Thunderer
As I wait for glue to dry on some 0FS display track, upon which to pose the completed Colletts, this is probably a good time to sum up this build.
I think it’s fair to say the JLTRT kits make up into pretty good representations of the prototype - as far as I can tell from the resources to hand. My experience has been similar to other JLTRT coach models, in that I seem to spend for ever putting together the underframes, and then all of a sudden the coaches are complete!
Let’s look at the positives. I’ve already mentioned the models seem to pretty much resemble the real thing. The resin mouldings are clean and tidy with little or no flash. The metal castings are about average, with some of the whitemetal castings starting to show the age of their moulds and needing some remedial work to be usable. Making the brass buffers fit smoothly enough to be adequately sprung took much longer than I’d have liked.
And it’s about this point I start to slip into the negatives!
The instructions are pretty poor, and lack detail in some critical areas. For example, for a GWR novice like me, there’s no clue that the underframe trusses for this particular flavour of Collett had only the two outer longitudinals. To be fair to JLTRT, knowledge of the prototype is expected is printed right on the top sheet, but that’s an easy get-out for a kit that retails at £235. The surgery required to fit the vacuum cylinder assemblies, plus having to fold the etches for the assemblies in reverse, were stumbled upon by trial and error. Sorting out the ride height so the wheel flanges didn’t rub on roof fixing bolt heads ought to have been resolved at the design stage. In some parallel universe, everything fits together as supplied, but in this reality some pretty drastic work was needed to make the underframes look anywhere near right.
Errors also crept in when fitting the roof ventilators. From the inverted location template in the D94 kit, to incorrectly placed ventilators in the C54, much drilling and filling was needed to get the locations correct to match the prototype photos.
Then there are the missing parts, and I don’t mean the parts that were missed during packing at the factory, of which there were several. Two of the three coach kits had etched end steps and lamp brackets. One, the brake third, did not. I had to source these parts from the trade, and make the necessary adaptations to the end mouldings to suit. Little detail was available for the brake rigging - and no brake gear at all for the bogies - and again I had to source these items from the trade. (The client accepted the lack of bogie brake gear, to be fair.) Let us not forget the solid compartment windows in the brake third kit interior etch.
In my opinion, there wasn’t enough wire in the kits. Each box contained one 18in length of nickel silver 0.7mm wire. Each kit needs wire for the brake rigging, end handrails (though the grab handles needed 0.5mm wire to be better in keeping with the real thing), and the corridor rails in the windows. Extra material had to be bought in.
The gangways were probably the worst issue. The rubber concertina mouldings are iffy at best, and fitting the brass components to them proved tricky, with the result I am not best pleased with the final result. Details for the suspension system are scant, with only rather ropey cast brass brackets to work with.
The kit glazing was, frankly, a joke. The material used was about a scale two inches thick. It might have been acceptable if it had been possible to find any pieces that weren’t bowed by the cutting process or storage method. Even had the client not approved the choice of real glass for this build, an alternative would have to have been found.
Some problems were not of JLTRT’s making. I suggested posed droplights for some extra life. Fitting the etches into the thicker moulded bodysides was a fiddle, as they are designed to fit etched coach kits. Having to modify the moulded glazing rebates to make cutting the glass microscope slides easier was also a trial.
While there are still some errors in the finished models, I am happy they capture the look of the real coaches. A Collett aficionado would probably pull the models to bits, but I think they’ll look rather fine attached to whichever ex-GWR motive power the client sees fit to use.
If I had to give a rating for these coaches, I suppose it would have to be around seven out of ten.
Now to see if the glue has set so I can get this display board finished for a photography session.
I think it’s fair to say the JLTRT kits make up into pretty good representations of the prototype - as far as I can tell from the resources to hand. My experience has been similar to other JLTRT coach models, in that I seem to spend for ever putting together the underframes, and then all of a sudden the coaches are complete!
Let’s look at the positives. I’ve already mentioned the models seem to pretty much resemble the real thing. The resin mouldings are clean and tidy with little or no flash. The metal castings are about average, with some of the whitemetal castings starting to show the age of their moulds and needing some remedial work to be usable. Making the brass buffers fit smoothly enough to be adequately sprung took much longer than I’d have liked.
And it’s about this point I start to slip into the negatives!
The instructions are pretty poor, and lack detail in some critical areas. For example, for a GWR novice like me, there’s no clue that the underframe trusses for this particular flavour of Collett had only the two outer longitudinals. To be fair to JLTRT, knowledge of the prototype is expected is printed right on the top sheet, but that’s an easy get-out for a kit that retails at £235. The surgery required to fit the vacuum cylinder assemblies, plus having to fold the etches for the assemblies in reverse, were stumbled upon by trial and error. Sorting out the ride height so the wheel flanges didn’t rub on roof fixing bolt heads ought to have been resolved at the design stage. In some parallel universe, everything fits together as supplied, but in this reality some pretty drastic work was needed to make the underframes look anywhere near right.
Errors also crept in when fitting the roof ventilators. From the inverted location template in the D94 kit, to incorrectly placed ventilators in the C54, much drilling and filling was needed to get the locations correct to match the prototype photos.
Then there are the missing parts, and I don’t mean the parts that were missed during packing at the factory, of which there were several. Two of the three coach kits had etched end steps and lamp brackets. One, the brake third, did not. I had to source these parts from the trade, and make the necessary adaptations to the end mouldings to suit. Little detail was available for the brake rigging - and no brake gear at all for the bogies - and again I had to source these items from the trade. (The client accepted the lack of bogie brake gear, to be fair.) Let us not forget the solid compartment windows in the brake third kit interior etch.
In my opinion, there wasn’t enough wire in the kits. Each box contained one 18in length of nickel silver 0.7mm wire. Each kit needs wire for the brake rigging, end handrails (though the grab handles needed 0.5mm wire to be better in keeping with the real thing), and the corridor rails in the windows. Extra material had to be bought in.
The gangways were probably the worst issue. The rubber concertina mouldings are iffy at best, and fitting the brass components to them proved tricky, with the result I am not best pleased with the final result. Details for the suspension system are scant, with only rather ropey cast brass brackets to work with.
The kit glazing was, frankly, a joke. The material used was about a scale two inches thick. It might have been acceptable if it had been possible to find any pieces that weren’t bowed by the cutting process or storage method. Even had the client not approved the choice of real glass for this build, an alternative would have to have been found.
Some problems were not of JLTRT’s making. I suggested posed droplights for some extra life. Fitting the etches into the thicker moulded bodysides was a fiddle, as they are designed to fit etched coach kits. Having to modify the moulded glazing rebates to make cutting the glass microscope slides easier was also a trial.
While there are still some errors in the finished models, I am happy they capture the look of the real coaches. A Collett aficionado would probably pull the models to bits, but I think they’ll look rather fine attached to whichever ex-GWR motive power the client sees fit to use.
If I had to give a rating for these coaches, I suppose it would have to be around seven out of ten.
Now to see if the glue has set so I can get this display board finished for a photography session.
Ressaldar
Western Thunderer
Hi Heather,
many thanks for the resume, I will have your comments firmly in the back of my mind when attempting the H33 conversion. I'm keeping my fingers crossed that the Preston OGG trip on the Inspection Saloon yesterday will produce the missing measurements and hopefully, some photos as well.
cheers
Mike
many thanks for the resume, I will have your comments firmly in the back of my mind when attempting the H33 conversion. I'm keeping my fingers crossed that the Preston OGG trip on the Inspection Saloon yesterday will produce the missing measurements and hopefully, some photos as well.
cheers
Mike
john lewsey
Western Thunderer
Having seen these coaches I think your being rather harsh on your self with the marking if they were for me I would be over the moon with them they really are very very nice
Dikitriki
Flying Squad
Having seen these coaches I think your being rather harsh on your self with the marking if they were for me I would be over the moon with them they really are very very nice
Yes John, but Heather wasn't rating the quality of her build, rather the quality of the kit itself. My presflos will look great, but they are pigs to build, so I would not rate them very highly.
richard carr
Western Thunderer
Richard
Do tell us why they are pigs to build, Ihad thought of having a train of those ?
Richard
Do tell us why they are pigs to build, Ihad thought of having a train of those ?
Richard
Dikitriki
Flying Squad
Hi Richard
There's some information on a thread here
http://www.westernthunder.co.uk/index.php?threads/just-like-the-real-thing-presflo-o-gauge.2786/
If you want any more detailed information, please ask on that thread so we don't clutter up Heather's.
Yours
Richard
Heather Kay
Western Thunderer
Hi Graham
The 9F is in its box. John's sorting some wheels for it, and then we're going to sit down and review the options regarding replacement castings and so on.
Next on the workbench will be two LNWR coaches, a diagram M57 driving trailer and matching third class coach. They'll be finished in LNWR livery.
They're both part-built Chowbent kits, and theoretically all I need to do is finish and paint them. If only life were that simple.
The 9F is in its box. John's sorting some wheels for it, and then we're going to sit down and review the options regarding replacement castings and so on.
Next on the workbench will be two LNWR coaches, a diagram M57 driving trailer and matching third class coach. They'll be finished in LNWR livery.
They're both part-built Chowbent kits, and theoretically all I need to do is finish and paint them. If only life were that simple.
Dog Star
Western Thunderer
Ah! Have those carriages be seen as the (sometime) occupants of the carriage siding at Hartley Hill? I understand that there might be a local Birmingham service which terminates at / returns from Hatley Hill - booked to use the Down Local Platform and standing for long enough that the crew can get lunch.
LNWR livery? now that is going to cause much anguish and not for you... there is a 3-set here and a similar set nearer to you. The two sets were finished by different painters and the "white" may well be different shades.
regards, Graham