Heather Kay
Western Thunderer
Well, if that is the case - and I have no reason to doubt it, frankly - perhaps it's more important that we modellers document how to overcome the shortcomings in the kits.
7mm On Heather's Workbench - three is a magic number
- Thread starter Heather Kay
- Start date
Well, if that is the case - and I have no reason to doubt it, frankly - perhaps it's more important that we modellers document how to overcome the shortcomings in the kits.
Heather Kay
Western Thunderer
Well, I have to admit to having rather lost my rag with things today.
Grinding out the recess for the vac cylinder assembly is tedious and messy. Grind a bit out, test fit. Find it's not level, so grind a bit more, test fit. And repeat.
Eventually, I figured I could go on like that almost indefinitely, and not end up knowing how much to actually grind away to give me the right position for the vee hangers. I decided to chop the whole lump of floor out, and once the assembly height is correct, fill in with styrene or epoxy resin for support.
It's not pretty, but it works. Now, at least, the truss beams don't hit the cross rod.
I am now going to lay down in a darkened room for a while.
Grinding out the recess for the vac cylinder assembly is tedious and messy. Grind a bit out, test fit. Find it's not level, so grind a bit more, test fit. And repeat.
Eventually, I figured I could go on like that almost indefinitely, and not end up knowing how much to actually grind away to give me the right position for the vee hangers. I decided to chop the whole lump of floor out, and once the assembly height is correct, fill in with styrene or epoxy resin for support.
It's not pretty, but it works. Now, at least, the truss beams don't hit the cross rod.
I am now going to lay down in a darkened room for a while.
Ressaldar
Western Thunderer
Hi Heather,
what you are having to drag through now, I will be doing in the not to distant, so your efforts are not in vain, they are in fact much appreciated.
It looks as if the underframe will be more involved that the cut and shuffle exercise with the doors will be. I need to do the underframe first to be able to position the new doors - and guess where they go
- correct, right next to the V hangers.
What you have done is very similar to my Fruit D underframe carving, at least the resin/plastic is fairly easy to file/form.
Best of luck with the rest of the builds.
cheers
Mike
what you are having to drag through now, I will be doing in the not to distant, so your efforts are not in vain, they are in fact much appreciated.
It looks as if the underframe will be more involved that the cut and shuffle exercise with the doors will be. I need to do the underframe first to be able to position the new doors - and guess where they go - correct, right next to the V hangers.What you have done is very similar to my Fruit D underframe carving, at least the resin/plastic is fairly easy to file/form.
Best of luck with the rest of the builds.
cheers
Mike
Heather Kay
Western Thunderer
Time for another update.
Today I are mostly been fettling buffer beams.
The beams are made of two etched parts, which have to fixed together. Some rivets have to be punched on the outer face (bottom), and both parts have some folds to be made.
I elected to sweat both parts together. Having tinned both mating surfaces, I held them together in a block of wood with a pair of thumbtacks through the buffer holes.
Because the outer face etches are quite thin, I left the tags (from the fret removal, just by the buffer holes) until I'd fixed them to the backplate before filing back in the general cleaning up process.
Before I fitted the buffer stocks, I tried to figure out how to get a rich man through the eye of a needle...
The screw coupling sprues are the standard JLTRT offerings, and come with optional hooks. Studying the prototype photos, the smaller hook is the correct one for this kit. You'd not know without reference books, as the whole buffer beam saga is very much glossed over in the so-called instructions. The larger hook is simply too chunky, more suitable for a wagon or loco.
As you can see, the coupling hook has a thick part with the dimple for drilling through. Springing the coupling and buffers is achieved using what I term the ABS method - stiff wire through the coupling hook, through slots in the underframe and attached to collars holding the buffer heads in. The hook shaft, obviously, won't fit through the etched hole in the buffer beam. It's not really practical to open this hole out, either.
I toyed with the idea of slicing off the thick part of the hook, and drilling a new hole, but my ham-fistedness meant my centre punch point for drilling was way off centre. Pragmatically, I took a file to the thick part, and thinned it down to the main part of the shank. Be warned, though, the metal used to cast the hooks and screw link parts is quite soft, and components bend quite easily. I then drilled through with a 0.7mm drill for the springing wire. While I was fiddling about, I opened up the hook part just a bit using a small pair of pliers, as it will be hard enough to couple anything to the coach with the gangways in place as it is.
As the buffer stocks are brass castings, I thought it might make sense to solder them into the beam before fixing the assembly to the underframe. The next two coaches in this batch will have the stocks glued in place. Less fiddle. Which reminds me, the holes for the buffer stocks need to be opened up to just a gnat's over 2.5mm diameter. I drilled them out with the right size drill, then ran a fine round needle file through a couple of times until the stocks were a reasonably tight fit.
Oh, yes, I chemically blackened the stocks and buffer heads before starting work.
Gluing the buffer beam assemblies to the underframe: the rear part of the beam assembly fits over a rebate in the floor. I found this needed to be filed back about half a millimetre or so to let the beam lay flat against the end of the floor. For the next two coaches I will also file down the coupling socket in the floor a little more, as it's a bit of a tight fit.
I glued the buffer beams to the floor using cyano. As usual, I scored both the end of the floor and the back of the buffer beam to give a key for the glue to work with. It's important to get the buffer beam flat and level on the end. As a guide, the bottom of the beam sits in the rebate in the floor, and the ends match to the outer edges of the underframe step boards.
And here's the beam from above, showing the top of the assembly flush with the floor surface.
Finally for this session, I fixed the vacuum cylinder assemblies into the crevasses in the floor I'd made previously.
According to all the photos and drawings I could see, the bottom of the underframe stepboard is level with the start of the turn-in, or knuckle, on the vee hangers. Coincidentally, the bottom - or is top? - surface of the cylinder assembly (the bit with the holes in it) sits level with the top of the solebar (which is revealed when chopping out the floor to make the space for the cylinder assembly). The hardest part is making sure the assembly is level and square. Cyano holds it in place, with a bit more dribbled in for good luck. Once set, I shall add some measure of reinforcement around the floor plate, though to be honest fitting the actual coach floor will do most of the job later.
I've left trimming back the cross rod and cylinder trunnions until it's all fixed in place. Before I set about fitting the trusses I want to get some paint on things, as they'll be all but impossible to get at once the trusses are in place.
Today I are mostly been fettling buffer beams.
The beams are made of two etched parts, which have to fixed together. Some rivets have to be punched on the outer face (bottom), and both parts have some folds to be made.
I elected to sweat both parts together. Having tinned both mating surfaces, I held them together in a block of wood with a pair of thumbtacks through the buffer holes.
Because the outer face etches are quite thin, I left the tags (from the fret removal, just by the buffer holes) until I'd fixed them to the backplate before filing back in the general cleaning up process.
Before I fitted the buffer stocks, I tried to figure out how to get a rich man through the eye of a needle...
The screw coupling sprues are the standard JLTRT offerings, and come with optional hooks. Studying the prototype photos, the smaller hook is the correct one for this kit. You'd not know without reference books, as the whole buffer beam saga is very much glossed over in the so-called instructions. The larger hook is simply too chunky, more suitable for a wagon or loco.
As you can see, the coupling hook has a thick part with the dimple for drilling through. Springing the coupling and buffers is achieved using what I term the ABS method - stiff wire through the coupling hook, through slots in the underframe and attached to collars holding the buffer heads in. The hook shaft, obviously, won't fit through the etched hole in the buffer beam. It's not really practical to open this hole out, either.
I toyed with the idea of slicing off the thick part of the hook, and drilling a new hole, but my ham-fistedness meant my centre punch point for drilling was way off centre. Pragmatically, I took a file to the thick part, and thinned it down to the main part of the shank. Be warned, though, the metal used to cast the hooks and screw link parts is quite soft, and components bend quite easily. I then drilled through with a 0.7mm drill for the springing wire. While I was fiddling about, I opened up the hook part just a bit using a small pair of pliers, as it will be hard enough to couple anything to the coach with the gangways in place as it is.
As the buffer stocks are brass castings, I thought it might make sense to solder them into the beam before fixing the assembly to the underframe. The next two coaches in this batch will have the stocks glued in place. Less fiddle. Which reminds me, the holes for the buffer stocks need to be opened up to just a gnat's over 2.5mm diameter. I drilled them out with the right size drill, then ran a fine round needle file through a couple of times until the stocks were a reasonably tight fit.
Oh, yes, I chemically blackened the stocks and buffer heads before starting work.
Gluing the buffer beam assemblies to the underframe: the rear part of the beam assembly fits over a rebate in the floor. I found this needed to be filed back about half a millimetre or so to let the beam lay flat against the end of the floor. For the next two coaches I will also file down the coupling socket in the floor a little more, as it's a bit of a tight fit.
I glued the buffer beams to the floor using cyano. As usual, I scored both the end of the floor and the back of the buffer beam to give a key for the glue to work with. It's important to get the buffer beam flat and level on the end. As a guide, the bottom of the beam sits in the rebate in the floor, and the ends match to the outer edges of the underframe step boards.
And here's the beam from above, showing the top of the assembly flush with the floor surface.
Finally for this session, I fixed the vacuum cylinder assemblies into the crevasses in the floor I'd made previously.
According to all the photos and drawings I could see, the bottom of the underframe stepboard is level with the start of the turn-in, or knuckle, on the vee hangers. Coincidentally, the bottom - or is top? - surface of the cylinder assembly (the bit with the holes in it) sits level with the top of the solebar (which is revealed when chopping out the floor to make the space for the cylinder assembly). The hardest part is making sure the assembly is level and square. Cyano holds it in place, with a bit more dribbled in for good luck. Once set, I shall add some measure of reinforcement around the floor plate, though to be honest fitting the actual coach floor will do most of the job later.
I've left trimming back the cross rod and cylinder trunnions until it's all fixed in place. Before I set about fitting the trusses I want to get some paint on things, as they'll be all but impossible to get at once the trusses are in place.
Railwaymaniac
Western Thunderer
Heather;
I'm a little concerned, but you may be miles ahead of me here.
The short version of my question is :
On your coaches and as given in the last picture above, when the brakes are operated (and the plunger is pulled DOWN and INTO the vacuum cylinder, I think?) are the brakes being pulled ON or are they being pushed further OFF ???????
Ian
I'm a little concerned, but you may be miles ahead of me here.
The short version of my question is :
On your coaches and as given in the last picture above, when the brakes are operated (and the plunger is pulled DOWN and INTO the vacuum cylinder, I think?) are the brakes being pulled ON or are they being pushed further OFF ???????
Ian
Heather Kay
Western Thunderer
On your coaches and as given in the last picture above, when the brakes are operated (and the plunger is pulled DOWN and INTO the vacuum cylinder, I think?) are the brakes being pulled ON or are they being pushed further OFF ???????
All I know is the layout on the model matches the layout on the prototype. There's a superb photo I used as reference, found in Russell's Great Western Coaches Appendix, Volume One, page 201.
To answer your question, I'm told the vacuum cylinder pulls up towards the floor of the coach when the brakes are applied. Therefore, the lever moves towards the centre of the coach, pulling the brake rod away from the bogie.
Heather Kay
Western Thunderer
I'm glad I haven't got as far as fitting the trusses yet. One of the sources Graham put me in touch with is querying whether any Colletts ever had the four trusses, with photographic evidence of a C54 showing quite plainly only the outer trusses.
Back to the books again.
Back to the books again.
Heather Kay
Western Thunderer
It does confirm my observations. Funny how you need someone to point out to you something that is blindingly obvious when you actually look.
Anyway, the D94 truss assembly has been duly reduced by two. You are correct. I think we will pay a visit to Didcot after attending Reading next week, if only to confirm one or two points. I will remember to take a boiler suit and tape measure.
Meanwhile, I have been trying to find any information regarding the roof handrails...
Railwaymaniac
Western Thunderer
All I know is the layout on the model matches the layout on the prototype. There's a superb photo I used as reference, found in Russell's Great Western Coaches Appendix, Volume One, page 201.
Excellent!
I just knew that you were ahead of me here . . .
Ian
Heather Kay
Western Thunderer
In many ways, I really enjoy picking over the details. If you know something definitely happened, and you can show it photographically, then it can be modelled. If it occasionally happened, but there's no consistency in the pictorial evidence, then you can legitimately take it or leave it.
Case in point, as discussed with Mr B just now, whether vacuum pipes ran out along the footboards, where steam heating pipes ran for the compartments, and whether the roof handrails were feature consistent across the board.
I've fettled together a representation of the wiring loom from the dynamo. The copper wire I used is a little on the thick side, so I have sourced a thinner gauge and may replace it later.
The parts that will be inaccessible later have had a coat of grot, and I've begun to consider positioning the battery boxes and making a representation of the steam heat drain cock near the centre of the coach. There's a casting of the actual drain cock, I just need to make up the length of pipe either side. I'm also getting a good feel for the way the brake rigging goes.
I must get on with the interior. It'll divert me enough until I get the missing bits and pieces at Reading next week.
Case in point, as discussed with Mr B just now, whether vacuum pipes ran out along the footboards, where steam heating pipes ran for the compartments, and whether the roof handrails were feature consistent across the board.
I've fettled together a representation of the wiring loom from the dynamo. The copper wire I used is a little on the thick side, so I have sourced a thinner gauge and may replace it later.
The parts that will be inaccessible later have had a coat of grot, and I've begun to consider positioning the battery boxes and making a representation of the steam heat drain cock near the centre of the coach. There's a casting of the actual drain cock, I just need to make up the length of pipe either side. I'm also getting a good feel for the way the brake rigging goes.
I must get on with the interior. It'll divert me enough until I get the missing bits and pieces at Reading next week.
Steph Dale
Western Thunderer
I suspect it's not any real help, but on Southern stock the vac pipes run along the solebar on one side and can be clearly seen behind the footboards (it actually attaches to the same brackets). The steam heat pipe runs just off the centre of the vehicle and descends between the battery boxes to a drain valve. The brackets in this case are just simple steel strips. Roof handrails vary upon batch and date - vehicles had the arrangements further adjusted under BR when the end handrails were modified to provide ground-level filling for the water tanks.
I'm not certain I've got a carriage here which will show the details, but I'm happy to have a rummage if you think it'll help...
Steph
Dog Star
Western Thunderer
Point of order... within the World of Swindon things which work without manual action are "valves" whilst fittings which operate only with the efforts of a human are "
The main steam heat pipe is circa 2" in diameter... the pipe is insulated with either asbestos tape or matting with the matting held on by clips / straps. The clips can be seen as "bright" lines on the pipe under the coach - there are a lot of them!
regards, Graham
Heather Kay
Western Thunderer
I'm over there, wearing the pointy hat with the big D on it. I stand corrected.
Perhaps I should use terms like doofer, doodad, watchamacallit, thingummyjig, oojamaflip, gubbins, doings, etc.
Perhaps I should use terms like doofer, doodad, watchamacallit, thingummyjig, oojamaflip, gubbins, doings, etc.
Dog Star
Western Thunderer
To stop any of you from following the tried and tested route of turning page after page of Russell's four volumes of GWR Carriages, the stuff-of-legends, there are some Collett carriages which had four angle iron trusses. In summary, those coaches were / are :-
* articulated stock;
* super saloons;
* some Riviera stock;
* some non-corridor, bow-end stock.
This is not an exhaustive list and is based upon the photos in Russell - noting that the inner truss rods play the difficult game of "hide under the coach and in the shadows". Thankfully, Heather is building carriages which have/had just two angle iron trusses per underframe.
* articulated stock;
* super saloons;
* some Riviera stock;
* some non-corridor, bow-end stock.
This is not an exhaustive list and is based upon the photos in Russell - noting that the inner truss rods play the difficult game of "hide under the coach and in the shadows". Thankfully, Heather is building carriages which have/had just two angle iron trusses per underframe.
Heather Kay
Western Thunderer
Hello again! It's been a while, hasn't it. I don't really like discussing disasters, but then again I don't want to pretend it's all plain sailing at chez Kay.
I've been assembling the D94 interior. It's all etched brass, apart from the seats. Before I got to wield the hotting sticks, I had to open up some erroneously un-etched windows on the compartments etch.
For this task, I hauled the trusty Maxxon MF70 milling machine in from the metalworking shop in our big shed. What you see above is the ad hoc method of fixing the etch to the bed.
The sacrificial cutting mat - which will never self-heal once I've done with it! - had the etch attached with double-sided tape. I drilled through each window to be opened with a 3.5mm diameter bit to give the 3mm mill somewhere to start the cut. The mat was then clamped as best I could to the bed. Then it was a case of winding back and forth around the periphery of each window to chop out the brass fill.
Eventually, it dawned on me the mat was simply too big to do the job properly. I found some 3mm thick balsa sheet, and stuck the etch to it so I could complete the job more easily.
The plan was to remove the raised etched part and leave the surrounding rebated area intact. I would need to file back the corners, but that was the plan. Unfortunately, due to being an idiot, I occasionally wound the bed too far in the wrong direction and cut into the rebate on some windows. I thought about it, and decided to cut my losses by filing all the windows back to the main frame edge. Being inside the coach body, it won't be too obvious.
Once completed, extracted from the balsa without too much bending, I spent a pleasant half-hour running the vacuum about to clear up the brass shavings from around the bench.
There followed three days of assembling the etched parts to make the interior. I have to say, it feels a lot longer. Actually, when I say three days, that's the same thing done over three times, as I will now relate.
Apart from the half-etched lines on the floor and various components, I was very much on my own with this. The instructions sort of jump to the part where everything is assembled without any of that tedious mucking about identifying parts and their locations. Things went quite well, considering, but I found the 48W iron just wasn't quite man enough to get the solder to flow along all the joints neatly, bearing in mind I was working on one massive brass heat sink. Tacking things together with blobs seems to be the way JLTRT think it should work, mind you.
Anyway, I got everything more or less assembled, and went off to do other things for the rest of Friday. I sat down Saturday afternoon to assess the situation, and decided I didn't like what I saw. It was a mess. The butane torch was literally fired up to disassemble it all, and then I spent a happy hour or two cleaning the blobby soldering from all the components.
For the second attempt, I decided resistance would be fruitful, and plugged in the RSU. After a few false starts, where things went together, were taken off again, adjusted, cleaned and attached once more, everything again was completely assembled. I began to clean things up to remove sloppy solder paste, overflowed flux and the worst blobbage, only to find what I thought were my best and cleanest joints gave up the ghost. Things had reverted to semi-kit form again.
Fortunately, I didn't manage to flight test the whole thing.
More cleaning up, plenty of scraping back, more resistance and singed fingers, and as I type the interior of this coach is pretty much in one piece. I need to glue in the guard's compartment detailing, but I'll leave that until things have some paint on. I was hoping for Japanese brass soldered assembly cleanliness, but it was not to be: I have not the skills - yet.
Pretty, it ain't. Square and true, it ain't. Being reassembled for the fourth time, it ain't. Hopefully, when it comes to the other two coaches, the techniques will result in something a little cleaner and straighter!
I've been toying with the idea of a guard figure, peering from the open door window of his compartment. I'll leave that idea hanging, as I am meeting the client at Reading. I haven't raised the possibility of populating the coaches with him.
Now to find out what colour the interior of these coaches would have been in the middle 1950s.
I've been assembling the D94 interior. It's all etched brass, apart from the seats. Before I got to wield the hotting sticks, I had to open up some erroneously un-etched windows on the compartments etch.
For this task, I hauled the trusty Maxxon MF70 milling machine in from the metalworking shop in our big shed. What you see above is the ad hoc method of fixing the etch to the bed.
The sacrificial cutting mat - which will never self-heal once I've done with it! - had the etch attached with double-sided tape. I drilled through each window to be opened with a 3.5mm diameter bit to give the 3mm mill somewhere to start the cut. The mat was then clamped as best I could to the bed. Then it was a case of winding back and forth around the periphery of each window to chop out the brass fill.
Eventually, it dawned on me the mat was simply too big to do the job properly. I found some 3mm thick balsa sheet, and stuck the etch to it so I could complete the job more easily.
The plan was to remove the raised etched part and leave the surrounding rebated area intact. I would need to file back the corners, but that was the plan. Unfortunately, due to being an idiot, I occasionally wound the bed too far in the wrong direction and cut into the rebate on some windows. I thought about it, and decided to cut my losses by filing all the windows back to the main frame edge. Being inside the coach body, it won't be too obvious.
Once completed, extracted from the balsa without too much bending, I spent a pleasant half-hour running the vacuum about to clear up the brass shavings from around the bench.
There followed three days of assembling the etched parts to make the interior. I have to say, it feels a lot longer. Actually, when I say three days, that's the same thing done over three times, as I will now relate.
Apart from the half-etched lines on the floor and various components, I was very much on my own with this. The instructions sort of jump to the part where everything is assembled without any of that tedious mucking about identifying parts and their locations. Things went quite well, considering, but I found the 48W iron just wasn't quite man enough to get the solder to flow along all the joints neatly, bearing in mind I was working on one massive brass heat sink. Tacking things together with blobs seems to be the way JLTRT think it should work, mind you.
Anyway, I got everything more or less assembled, and went off to do other things for the rest of Friday. I sat down Saturday afternoon to assess the situation, and decided I didn't like what I saw. It was a mess. The butane torch was literally fired up to disassemble it all, and then I spent a happy hour or two cleaning the blobby soldering from all the components.
For the second attempt, I decided resistance would be fruitful, and plugged in the RSU. After a few false starts, where things went together, were taken off again, adjusted, cleaned and attached once more, everything again was completely assembled. I began to clean things up to remove sloppy solder paste, overflowed flux and the worst blobbage, only to find what I thought were my best and cleanest joints gave up the ghost. Things had reverted to semi-kit form again.
Fortunately, I didn't manage to flight test the whole thing.
More cleaning up, plenty of scraping back, more resistance and singed fingers, and as I type the interior of this coach is pretty much in one piece. I need to glue in the guard's compartment detailing, but I'll leave that until things have some paint on. I was hoping for Japanese brass soldered assembly cleanliness, but it was not to be: I have not the skills - yet.
Pretty, it ain't. Square and true, it ain't. Being reassembled for the fourth time, it ain't. Hopefully, when it comes to the other two coaches, the techniques will result in something a little cleaner and straighter!
I've been toying with the idea of a guard figure, peering from the open door window of his compartment. I'll leave that idea hanging, as I am meeting the client at Reading. I haven't raised the possibility of populating the coaches with him.
Now to find out what colour the interior of these coaches would have been in the middle 1950s.
Dog Star
Western Thunderer
Mr. Pete Speller... if you ask, there may even be some phots of a typical Collett luggage area.
Heather Kay
Western Thunderer
Dog Star
Western Thunderer
If you speak to your client before you get to the CPL stand at the ALSRM show then you can suggest adding luggage racks... Pat does some for 1st class and for 3rd class compartments, just make sure you know how many are required as Pat has "better value - bigger packs". Do you have the CPL catalogue?
When you do contact PS, enquire as to what he has in the way of photographic material suitable for the GWR Holiday Haunt style photos above the seats - I recollect that he mentioned that to me when he and I were discussing the interiors of Dean's coaches.
When you do contact PS, enquire as to what he has in the way of photographic material suitable for the GWR Holiday Haunt style photos above the seats - I recollect that he mentioned that to me when he and I were discussing the interiors of Dean's coaches.