Yorkshire Dave
Western Thunderer
With hindsight you're probably correct. I'll revert to plan A - print on plain paper. The number boards will be lit with LEDs and the light intensity can be programmed on the decoder.
P48 for Cotton Belt: Roster addition SW1200
- Thread starter Yorkshire Dave
- Start date
With hindsight you're probably correct. I'll revert to plan A - print on plain paper. The number boards will be lit with LEDs and the light intensity can be programmed on the decoder.
Yorkshire Dave
Western Thunderer
I finally made up the number boards Friday night. Printed on good quality paper, mounted to the number board inserts and then a layer of clear styrene.
This is unlit.
Here I placed a LED head torch in the body just to see what they looked like illuminated. The SMD diodes I'll use will be warm white with a thin coat of yellow glass paint to simulate incandescent bulbs.
With regards to the Pittman motor I was finally able to measure the current draw after purchasing a Helmsman 5 Amp controller at Reading today.
At full throttle on the track I pressed down on the trucks to stop the loco. This occurred at 3.8 Amps at which point the controller cut out. The Loskound L v4 decoder has a peak of 4 Amps and will therefore suitable for the Pittman motor as Jordan suggested earlier. In normal running the current draw is around 1.5 to 2 Amps.
Also whilst running the chassis in on rollers I noticed one of the flywheels was not concentric and I don't think they were balanced either - unlike those in Roco HO locomotives. As a result they were both removed which is not a problem as the decoder will be an electronic flywheel.
It is noisy present as I don't believe it was ever run so the gears are not bedded in. I lubricated the gears with Labelle white plastic compatible Teflon grease but I think it may require a thicker plastic compatible Teflon grease.
This is unlit.
Here I placed a LED head torch in the body just to see what they looked like illuminated. The SMD diodes I'll use will be warm white with a thin coat of yellow glass paint to simulate incandescent bulbs.
With regards to the Pittman motor I was finally able to measure the current draw after purchasing a Helmsman 5 Amp controller at Reading today.
At full throttle on the track I pressed down on the trucks to stop the loco. This occurred at 3.8 Amps at which point the controller cut out. The Loskound L v4 decoder has a peak of 4 Amps and will therefore suitable for the Pittman motor as Jordan suggested earlier. In normal running the current draw is around 1.5 to 2 Amps.
Also whilst running the chassis in on rollers I noticed one of the flywheels was not concentric and I don't think they were balanced either - unlike those in Roco HO locomotives. As a result they were both removed which is not a problem as the decoder will be an electronic flywheel.
It is noisy present as I don't believe it was ever run so the gears are not bedded in. I lubricated the gears with Labelle white plastic compatible Teflon grease but I think it may require a thicker plastic compatible Teflon grease.
Jordan
Mid-Western Thunderer
Yorkshire Dave
Western Thunderer
"Ah tode yer, day I..??!!"
Ooh arrrrrrrrrr....
Aye. Thy just 'at t'ave a go at testing owt current drawer fer thy satisfaction....
Yorkshire Dave
Western Thunderer
Not much happening at t'present apart from making up a split false floor for the cab.
The split to enable the body to be removed as there is a drive shaft which sits above the cab floor.
View from above with the engineer's seat on the right and fireman's on the left. I'm debating whether to also install the conductor's seat behind the fireman's. GP9s had an option whether to have this or not. The only photo I could find was of a GP7 cab which shows both the fireman's and conductor seats. These are Precision Scale parts.
The drivers stand is a tad too close to the driver in the above photo so I moved it as far forward as I can and adjusted the angle slightly without impeding the cab front. I'll probably move the seat a bit further back.
And this is what you can see through the drivers side window.
The power wires from the trucks to a home made distribution board will be routed in the channels along the floor of the chassis so will not be visible. The holes in the cab side are for wind deflector mounts.
The split to enable the body to be removed as there is a drive shaft which sits above the cab floor.
View from above with the engineer's seat on the right and fireman's on the left. I'm debating whether to also install the conductor's seat behind the fireman's. GP9s had an option whether to have this or not. The only photo I could find was of a GP7 cab which shows both the fireman's and conductor seats. These are Precision Scale parts.
The drivers stand is a tad too close to the driver in the above photo so I moved it as far forward as I can and adjusted the angle slightly without impeding the cab front. I'll probably move the seat a bit further back.
And this is what you can see through the drivers side window.
The power wires from the trucks to a home made distribution board will be routed in the channels along the floor of the chassis so will not be visible. The holes in the cab side are for wind deflector mounts.
Jordan
Mid-Western Thunderer
Probably the best place on this Forum to post this; the famous Right-O-Way range of US track components is now available online, with Paypal option. 
Right-O-Way O Scale Parts and Machining
Shipping cost to UK as displayed by Paypal may be a bit out, best to ask Jay Cresswell the new proprietor first, but having had to jump through several metaphorical hoops a few years ago to obtain these parts, I reckon having this range online is a major step forward.
Right-O-Way O Scale Parts and Machining
Shipping cost to UK as displayed by Paypal may be a bit out, best to ask Jay Cresswell the new proprietor first, but having had to jump through several metaphorical hoops a few years ago to obtain these parts, I reckon having this range online is a major step forward.
Yorkshire Dave
Western Thunderer
Probably the best place on this Forum to post this; the famous Right-O-Way range of US track components is now available online, with Paypal option.
Thanks for the news.
Christmas has come early (relatively)
Yorkshire Dave
Western Thunderer
Yes folks! It's happened 
. One of those Doh, Ray, Me, Fa(rk) moments....
In my desire to do some work on the cab interior I was busy plodding along making the sub-base floor and after getting this far... (the seats and control stand are part way through painting).
It wasn't until the following day when I was looking at the body and this struck me.... How was I going to mate the body to the sill without having to start again.... 24 carat Doh!
Fortunately, I had thought of a solution.. cut away the base of the body under the cab but retain the locating pins.
Phew! I am now able to flex the body to locate it on the sill.
After all that......
. One of those Doh, Ray, Me, Fa(rk) moments....In my desire to do some work on the cab interior I was busy plodding along making the sub-base floor and after getting this far... (the seats and control stand are part way through painting).
It wasn't until the following day when I was looking at the body and this struck me.... How was I going to mate the body to the sill without having to start again.... 24 carat Doh!
Fortunately, I had thought of a solution.. cut away the base of the body under the cab but retain the locating pins.
Phew! I am now able to flex the body to locate it on the sill.
After all that......
Jordan
Mid-Western Thunderer
It's been so long now since I built my GP9 that I'd quite forgotten how it goes together!! I need to find out soon as it's the last of my current fleet needing a DCC chip (got a big Lenz Gold Maxi waiting), so thanks for the 'aid memoire'.... also a reminder why I haven't bothered with cab interiors (apart from crew figures in some) in my US diesels - the cabs are often full of drive mechanisms or motors and flywheels!! 
PS your grease monkey is looking rather too pleased with himself again. Far too much Festive Spirit by the looks of it..!!
PS your grease monkey is looking rather too pleased with himself again. Far too much Festive Spirit by the looks of it..!!
Big Train James
Western Thunderer
That's one of the pitfalls of the Red Caboose version of the gp9. I'll be starting mine from the Atlas version with the diecast frame, but I'll be dumping all of the two-motor garbage and electronics in favor of a drive based on the Atlas switcher style.
I plan on doing at least two kitbashes of sw1500's, which will mean at least two spares sets of blomberg trucks available for reimplementation in F or GP unit builds. I'll need to etch and fabricate the upside down U-shaped mounting bracket as found in the switchers, but then mounting the trucks will be simple. I can use an Atlas motor, or more likely a pittman gear motor. I've several on hand for just such a purpose (although I belatedly found out that they won't fit in narrow hood units with the gear head, so will be used for F units). The trick will be getting my hands on spare mp15dc truck blocks once my obvious left over stash runs out. I'm hoping that when Atlas finally brings in additional mp15dc's, they will have parts in stock.
Any frames and drives that I fabricate from scratch will have a recess between frame rails between which the drive shaft will run. There will be some extra mass for the universal coupling and the interface between worm and worm gear, but that will be kept to a minimum and any truck gear box will be designed with a low profile. The motor will be partially below the frame deck in the fuel tank. This should leave the cab open for interior if desired, and the long hood open for speaker and decoder installation. A prototype 2nd generation EMD frame has a depth of about 17", so I will have about 3/8" to work with. Even if things protrude above the walkway, it will be incrementally.
I plan on doing at least two kitbashes of sw1500's, which will mean at least two spares sets of blomberg trucks available for reimplementation in F or GP unit builds. I'll need to etch and fabricate the upside down U-shaped mounting bracket as found in the switchers, but then mounting the trucks will be simple. I can use an Atlas motor, or more likely a pittman gear motor. I've several on hand for just such a purpose (although I belatedly found out that they won't fit in narrow hood units with the gear head, so will be used for F units). The trick will be getting my hands on spare mp15dc truck blocks once my obvious left over stash runs out. I'm hoping that when Atlas finally brings in additional mp15dc's, they will have parts in stock.
Any frames and drives that I fabricate from scratch will have a recess between frame rails between which the drive shaft will run. There will be some extra mass for the universal coupling and the interface between worm and worm gear, but that will be kept to a minimum and any truck gear box will be designed with a low profile. The motor will be partially below the frame deck in the fuel tank. This should leave the cab open for interior if desired, and the long hood open for speaker and decoder installation. A prototype 2nd generation EMD frame has a depth of about 17", so I will have about 3/8" to work with. Even if things protrude above the walkway, it will be incrementally.
Yorkshire Dave
Western Thunderer
Given the choice I would have the motor(s) mounted in the fuel tank with drive shafts to low profile gears boxes but as you've pointed out the Red Caboose GP9 doesn't have these.
My U23B being a brass kit provides a blank canvas and the larger GE fuel tank will hold two 1833 motors which I can couple if required. My intention is to use the SDMP Blines remote gearboxes available from Finney7 instructions, planning template. I will be able to keep the drive mechanism within the chassis.
My U23B being a brass kit provides a blank canvas and the larger GE fuel tank will hold two 1833 motors which I can couple if required. My intention is to use the SDMP Blines remote gearboxes available from Finney7 instructions, planning template. I will be able to keep the drive mechanism within the chassis.
Big Train James
Western Thunderer
Will your decoder of choice for the U23b employ BEMF? I ask because I was under an impression that multiple motors would confuse a single decoder. Just curious if that's a real issue, or simply a myth.
Jordan
Mid-Western Thunderer
I only use one decoder in my 'China drives', but then I also wire them in series, so there's only the usual single pair of orange & grey wire connections to it. Seems ok apart from the fact that one motor might start fractionally before the other, but that happened in DC, too. As speed matching is something that has utterly elluded me so far, I dread to think how difficult it would be to speed match two decoders & motors within the same loco!!
I agree that the ideal setup is, though, a single motor, with drive to both trucks. It's been done successfully in HO & N, I believe
Why O scale is so backwards I don't know. Oh, wait a minute - yes, of course - it's the influence of that abomination known as *spit* 3-Rail
I agree that the ideal setup is, though, a single motor, with drive to both trucks. It's been done successfully in HO & N, I believe
Why O scale is so backwards I don't know. Oh, wait a minute - yes, of course - it's the influence of that abomination known as *spit* 3-Rail
Big Train James
Western Thunderer
The best part is, that for all the concessions made in 3-rail just for the sake of proprietary electronics and smoke units, half of the models show up new from the manufacturer with problems, if they work at all.
Yorkshire Dave
Western Thunderer
Possibly if the motors are wired in parallel rather than series.
The decoder for the U23B will be a Loksound - which one? I don't know yet. I'll use BEMF but my experience with coreless and low current modern motors means this will be turned down quite far.
Rather than two Canon 1833's I may use two 6v coreless motors which will be wired in series, as Jordan does with the motors is his locos. As there is only one set of feed wires to the motors I think the decoder will interpret this as one. Like Jordan, motor matching to me is a relatively dark science - mainly because I haven't delved into it too far....yet.
I generally settle on Loksound decoders as:
a) I have a Lokprogrammer.
b) I can manipulate the sound files to my requirements/taste.
c) ESU has more open source downloadable sound files than ZIMO.
d) You can adjust the motor control parameter CVs to match the motor(s) to get the really fine control (ZIMO also).
e) I've had more experience with them.
With the big Pittman in the GP9 and the Loksound v4 L it'll be an interesting exercise - in at the deep end as I've yet to program a v4 decoder
.In my experience the Tsumami sounds are good but the decoders just do not have the sophistication of ESU or ZIMO when it comes to adjusting the motor control CVs. I found this out when programming a Tsunami in an Atlas HO CN C424.
simond
Western Thunderer
Guys,
Not sure if this is old news or not, but I stumbled on this a few months back - it might be of some use - US railways are not really my scene but there is lots of interest in both "tech" and "decor"
The O Scale Resource Magazine
Season's Greetings
Simon
Not sure if this is old news or not, but I stumbled on this a few months back - it might be of some use - US railways are not really my scene but there is lots of interest in both "tech" and "decor"
The O Scale Resource Magazine
Season's Greetings
Simon
Yorkshire Dave
Western Thunderer
Thanks for posting the link Simon - some extra reading over the holiday .
.
simond
Western Thunderer
Dave
Glad it's helpful. The pix of the bogies & keepers made me think... I wonder if you can get hold of back issues, perhaps you'll need to email the publisher.
Like I said, US stuff isn't really my cuppa, but I do enjoy your thread. I love the weathering/paint job you've done on your loco. I lived in India for a few years a while back. I have an inkling to find a model GP to decorate as an Indian loco as a memento, even if it will look a bit odd on a 1930 GW BLT when it goes out to play... I did have the opportunity to visit the Loco Works in Varanasi, and see them being built, so US diesels are of some interest.
Season's Greetings
Simon
Glad it's helpful. The pix of the bogies & keepers made me think... I wonder if you can get hold of back issues, perhaps you'll need to email the publisher.
Like I said, US stuff isn't really my cuppa, but I do enjoy your thread. I love the weathering/paint job you've done on your loco. I lived in India for a few years a while back. I have an inkling to find a model GP to decorate as an Indian loco as a memento, even if it will look a bit odd on a 1930 GW BLT when it goes out to play... I did have the opportunity to visit the Loco Works in Varanasi, and see them being built, so US diesels are of some interest.
Season's Greetings
Simon
Big Train James
Western Thunderer
Simon, the O Scale Resource is an online magazine. I believe there is a link for back issues as well as the current issue on their website.
Big Train James
Western Thunderer
Btw, yours truly gets a mention in the brief write-up of Right-o-Way's replacement Atlas gear box covers toward the beginning of the magazine. A star is born 
.
.