P48 for Cotton Belt: Roster addition SW1200

Yorkshire Dave

Western Thunderer
Mickoo - thanks for the picture of the coupler - now to order some Albion Alloys sleeved brass square tube and brass strip to make my own coupler draft boxes.

You'll need a large pair of spiking pliers for those spikes :D.

Jim said:
Are you looking for something in particular? I've got other pictures that might better illustrate whatever it is you are pondering. Also keep in mind that while things haven't evolved too far, things may be a little different between the your modeling era of choice and the modern stock in these pictures.

My period of modelling will be 1980s which means I can have some of the older cars but I'm interested in pictures of draft gear (normal and cushion) so I can at least attempt to get mine right.

Also I've noticed from the pictures modern cars (other than the double stack and possibly autorack) appear to run on 36'' wheels rather than 33''. Is this the case now or does it only apply to heavier tonnage cars?[/QUOTE]
 
Couplers, Trucks

Big Train James

Western Thunderer
Mickoo - thanks for the picture of the coupler - now to order some Albion Alloys sleeved brass square tube and brass strip to make my own coupler draft boxes.

You'll need a large pair of spiking pliers for those spikes :D.



My period of modelling will be 1980s which means I can have some of the older cars but I'm interested in pictures of draft gear (normal and cushion) so I can at least attempt to get mine right.

Also I've noticed from the pictures modern cars (other than the double stack and possibly autorack) appear to run on 36'' wheels rather than 33''. Is this the case now or does it only apply to heavier tonnage cars?
[/QUOTE]
To my understanding, there are four common sizes of modern wheels in use. I would think "modern" in this sense includes the 80's, as most everything we see now was already around by then except for most of the articulated cars. I believe most modern wheel standards were in place by the late 60's to early 70's. Not much has changed since then.

28" wheels I believe are used on Autoracks at a minimum, accounting for clearance concerns rather than load ratings.. There may be some other high clearance cars that require them, but none to my knowledge as ubiquitous as the autoracks.

33" wheels are generally considered for cars with 70 ton load capacities, although I think some of these cars may also use 36" wheels. About the only 70 ton capacity cars I know of now are boxcars, and possibly flat cars. Typically cars whose ladings are large in volume but light in mass. Like car parts or appliances. Or wind turbine blades. Going back to the 80's, 70 ton cars are almost certainly more common. I don't know the dates, but through the years the maximum tonnages have been incrementally increased as cars have gotten larger.

36" wheels are probably the most common today as they are the defacto standard for 100 ton cars. Larger boxcars, most any hopper, covered or otherwise, tank cars, gondolas, and so on.

38" wheels are much less common. They are typically on equipment rated for 125 tons. They might be found on the common truck found between two articulated stack or spine cars, and therefor carry some part of the load from both cars.

Off the top of my head, 70 ton trucks would use the 33" wheels and have a wheelbase of 5'-8", 100 ton trucks would use 36" wheels and have a wheelbase of 5'-10", and 125 ton trucks would use 38" wheels with a wheelbase of 6'-0". Bearing sizes also increase correspondingly.

By the way, if you are shooting for the 80's you might want to replace your friction bearing trucks with ones with roller bearing journals. By that point friction bearings were essentially non-existent except possibly on captive cars not intended for interchange service. Quite possibly, friction bearings may have been outright banned from use on by the FRA or whichever regulatory administration was in place at the time.

Some draft gear images from a TBOX 60' boxcar - pretty modern....often times specs are called out on the ends of cars in the same vein as the spring grouping data previously pictured.
tbox-001.jpg tbox-002.jpg tbox-003.jpg tbox-004.jpg tbox-005.jpg tbox-006.jpg tbox-007.jpg
This last photo isn't mine and is of a different but similar car as the photos above - I have no idea on the copyright.

Bellows Falls 1-16-05 (18)-XL.jpg

Photos of derailed equipment are some of the most useful things out there. Too hard to come by though.:(

There is a ton of information out there about cushioning devices and draft gear and coupler assemblies.

Another very handy resource is the Car and Locomotive Cyclopedia published by Simmons-Boardman. They have been issued periodically over the last 100+ years. I have one from 1997 and one from 1980. They contain all sorts of information ranging from full on complete car and loco data to all the common appliances like brake systems, couplers systems, door, roof, and end components, and so on. Older editions would include the same sort of data for steam locomotives instead of diesels. It is sort of half reference source, half advertising. Best of all, there are lots and lots of technical drawings :thumbs:! A lot of the data I used to model my 100 ton truck was gleaned from these two books, including wheel profiles, sideframe and bolster dimensions, and brake system components and arrangements. They can be expensive, but the most recent volumes have been on sale for $99 for some time now. I think they used to offer them on CD but I don't currently see that option offered. It might be worth a trip to the local library as the one here had multiple volumes available. I eventually purchased the two latest versions since that was my era of highest interest and they were not among the editions available from the library.

Want to get really specific? Go to this BNSF page for summaries of their equipment. Pick a railcar type, click on the diagram link, and you will end up with something like this....
bnsf-eq-guide.jpg

Just about every component used on the car, with manufacturer and model designation, is indicated on this page. It's handy to know what to search for on google. Some manufacturer have data that we can use online. Some don't offer specifics. But there is a ton of data available here.

All for now. If you have questions on any of the fields in the summary above, ask away. Don't get lost now :eek::D.

EDIT: corrected wheelbases for 70 and 100 ton trucks from 6'-8" and 6'-10" to 5'-8" and 5'-10" respectively.

Jim
 
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Yorkshire Dave

Western Thunderer
Can't thank you enough for the information Jim :thumbs:. As you've said there's a wealth of it out there and for me it's just knowing where to look... knocks my limited knowledge of US railroads even deeper into the shade if not into the dark.

I have sufficient Atlas 70T roller bearing trucks on order to replace the friction trucks on my motley collection of 5 boxcars. The caboose already has a set of the Atlas caboose roller bearing trucks and the two older cars are going to have friction trucks.

I was curious about the wheels as I had ordered all 33'' and a set of 36'' for my caboose.

Interesting track in your pictures. Metal ties and Pandrol rail clips.
 
Couplers, Trucks

Big Train James

Western Thunderer
It looks like the caboose wheels should be 33" :mad:. Several search results on the web seem to indicate this, and I also pulled a drawing of the caboose trucks into autocad and sized the wheel there.
bb-sm-33.jpg

Now then you may still be right on for the 33" wheels and your boxcars. Can you provide some info on which cars in particular. I wouldn't be surprised if you end up ok if the cars are of the Plate B variety that would have been more common back then.

Jim
 
Track

Yorkshire Dave

Western Thunderer
I've been gathering parts to build a piece of test track and have taken delivery of 12 yards of code 100 rail and wooden coffee stirrers for the ties (1000 of them from t'internet for the princely sum of a fiver).

The other item I required was a track gauge to P48 standards. Rather than order them from the US I made my own from (dare I say it) OO code 100 brass roller track gauges and some brass tube. The idea was to widen the OO gauges by cutting them in half and inserting a brass sleeve, using the Protocraft P48 standards gauge for my measurements.

I started with two of these and some brass tube.
040 track.jpg

A length of tube was cut to 21mm and split as I could not find any locally with the same internal diameter as that of the centre of the track gauge. I also cut the track gauge in half. There was great satisfaction in taking an engineering hacksaw to an OO gauge item :D.
041 track.jpg

The parts ready to be soldered. I took great care when soldering these to ensure the correct gauge was maintained requiring the use of two pairs of calipers. One set to the track gauge (outer grooves) and the other set to the inside face where the tube was being soldered.
042 track.jpg

The finished track gauge showing the filed face. This was done to enable the gauge to lay over the switch rails when I construct the switches otherwise it rocks on them due to the diameter of the centre of the gauge being enlarged by the sleeve.
043 track.jpg

The finished pair of track gauges. The steel gauge is the Protocraft P48 standards gauge from which I took all my measurements. 044 track.jpg
 

Jordan

Mid-Western Thunderer
That's clever, and cheaper I suspect :thumbs:
Not as cheap as bits of old wood :oops: but then I'm not doing P48.
I got some very strange looks at the C&L Stand at Warley one year when I asked if they did O Scale track gauges for Code100 rail :D & my mate with me at the time who's an engineer/toolmaker was horrified at the price of "a few bits of turned metal" as he put it.
I never thought to ask him to make some, though :confused: :(
 
Boxcars

Yorkshire Dave

Western Thunderer
While I'm waiting for some more track parts to arrive I started work on converting this Atlas Trainman insulated box car..

SSW insulated 01.jpg

Into this...
SSW 40' plug door PC&F 30042 50T.jpg

I've removed the moulded end details, ladders, moulded tack board on the sides of the car, the roof board and the slight fish belly on the sill. The remaining holes were filled with plastic rod and sanded smooth. Ladders will be replaced by the Chooch spares and grab irons with brass wire.

I originally thought the Atlas paint scheme was fictitious and tried to find prototype photos. I managed to find a photo on t'web of a SP insulated car in this paint scheme but apparently it turned out to be short lived. However I now cannot locate the picture for the life of me which is rather academic given I'm converting the car. When finished it will be running on 70T roller bearing trucks.

The paint scheme was removed using Strip Magic by Deluxe which I've never used before. To me it's like Nitromors for plastic. It is a thick liquid applied with a brush, left for about 10-15 minutes to soften the paint and washed off with Isopropanol Alcohol. It's rather messy and it two attempts to strip the paint. At the moment the body shell has been given a coat of Tamiya grey filler primer which reveals the areas requiring further work.

As usual I keep looking at the prototype photo only to find that more work is still required namely the removal of the panel lines to be replaced by lines of rivets which I have on order from Archer Fine transfers. As for the decals, well, I'll have to cobble these from several sources - Microscale, Champ and Walthers which I have in stock.

I'll post some more pics when I get around to taking them.
 

Jordan

Mid-Western Thunderer
Will Delrin take paint okay? IIRC it's what loco handrails in HO are made of, & paint just flakes right off if you so much as breathe on it :headbang: either enamel or acrylic. I tried some product by Microscale that was supposed to prevent this.... yeah, right.... :mad: :rolleyes:
 

Yorkshire Dave

Western Thunderer
I spent last night on t'internet looking this up. Several sources say it's the mould release agent used during manufacture which prevents the paint adhering others say it's something else.

It's like sifting old housewives tales where every remedy is sworn by.

I think I'll be conducting my own experiments.... soaking them in isopropanol alcohol or some other solvent to clean or painting them with etch primer or ending up buying a spray used by motor manufacturers designed for preparing delrin parts for painting.... I'll let you know whit I find out.
 

Yorkshire Dave

Western Thunderer
Painting delrin :headbang:- a turn up for the books - a solution which has surprised me.

After reading about several methods of preparing delrin for painting using somewhat lethal chemical mixtures which I would expect see in ancient alchemy texts, I first looked around my own workbench to see what solvents I already use in my modelmaking.

I started with the most simple approach - use Pheonix grey single etch primer straight from the tin (with a little cellulose thinners) on a keyed surface.

As control I painted a scrap piece of ladder without any preparation and left it to dry for 24 hours.

The next ladder (a bit of offcut) was 'keyed/roughed up' with a fibre glass stick to remove the shine. This was a relatively slow and delicate process as not to damage the ladder. This was then painted with the etch primer and, again, left to dry for 24 hours.

The next day I used my fingernail to try and scratch the paint off. As expected the paint came off the unprepared ladder. I then tried to scratch the paint off the 'keyed' ladder and this proved, somewhat surprisingly, difficult. Granted, given sufficient pressure the paint will eventually come off. But then, too much pressure and the part will probably break. As these ladders are destined for my boxcars I would not expect them to be constantly handled. That's the theory anyway :confused:.

I have taken a photo (flash) but it does not really show the look or feel. Anyway from left to right: unprepared ladders; prepared ladder; painted unprepared ladder (with paint scratched off) and painted prepared scrap ladder (except the unprepared section at the bottom). If anyone's interested I'll have these at Telford for handling (small layout adjacent to the Technical Committee stand).

I hope this will be of use to anyone with delrin handrails, ladders, parts to paint :thumbs:.

Delrin ladders 01.jpg
 

Big Train James

Western Thunderer
It already looks much better with the new ladders and grabs. On a different note, sometimes I like to see projects in this unfinished state. It really communicates all the changes plus or minus that have been done to the car. I often feel it a shame to cover it all up.

Did you look at the Protocraft ladders at all. I think they are brass, so should paint up nicely. Of course they are quite a bit more expensive.

Jim
 

Jordan

Mid-Western Thunderer
Having tried and got very frustrated with 'lining' decals in the past - trying to keep them straight - can I ask how much of a problem that is with these Rivet Decals?
 

Yorkshire Dave

Western Thunderer
Having used lining many moons ago this is effectively the first time I have used the rivet decals in anger.

Overall I did not find it a problem as the rivet strip lengths were relatively short.

I started by drawing (what I thought were) vertical lines on the boxcar side which can just been in the photos. The rivet runs are printed on clear decal film so I could see the guide lines I drew. The decal was cut into strips and to the required length.

It's only when I began I realised the lines were not vertical :rant:. Then it was on the fly with a small engineers square and ruler :eek:.

Then the tricky bit after floating the decal onto the car side. I used Micro Set to aid adhesion and give me sufficient time to line up the decal using a small engineers square from the roof and eyeballing in order to keep the rivets vertical. It just took patience and time. The carrier film is thin and prone to tearing if not careful. They were brushed with Micro Sol and left to dry prior to spraying with primer.

Next time I'll make sure the guide lines are vertical to make it easier :headbang:.
 

Yorkshire Dave

Western Thunderer
Jim

I did look at the Protocraft ladders but elected to go for Chooch as I got more for my bucks. As you say they are expensive. However I do have to put another order to Protocraft at some point for brake wheels (and some other parts....) as the Atlas Trainman ones are a tad coarse.
 

Yorkshire Dave

Western Thunderer
Just recently been going boxcar crazy :confused:.

The SSW insulated car body has received it's first paint job and decals. Currently it still has it's gloss finish as I've yet to put on the ACI plate and wheel/axle maintenance decals (they're on order from Highball Graphics). Once the ACI plates are on I'll give the boxcar a coat of matt varnish before weathering and applying the wheel/axle maintenance and new owner decals. Incidentally, I mixed the boxcar brown from Vallejo Mahogany and Sand colour paints.

Decals are a mixture of Microscale, Protocraft, Walthers and Highball, when they arrive. There is one detail I'm going to have to live with until the right STAR TREK? :) style lettering size comes along. At present FOR FRAGILE FREIGHT is too large as the F in FOR should be underneath the Y in HYDRA and the T at the end of FREIGHT should end where H is in FREIGHT.

There remains further detailing such as the tack boards, end brake gear, steps, draft gear and underframe details. The delrin ladders have taken the paint nicely after keying them prior to painting. At present it still has it's old Atlas trucks which will be replaced with their scale roller bearing trucks (when they arrive) and Protocraft P48 wheels .
SSW insulated 13.jpg

SSW insulated 14.jpg

Work has been taking place on two further boxcars, one for SSW and the other for SP. Below is the Weaver 40' Pullman Standard car with Superior doors which has been stripped and the holes plugged ready for sanding. The roof board mounting holes ave also been plugged and will be reprofiled to match the roof. I'll have to get another one of these to convert to a SSW Youngstown door version.
SSW Pullman 01.jpg

And an old Atlas (Roco) 40' AAR boxcar with Youngstown doors, again stripped and holes plugged. This is the car for which I'll have to make a pair of 7 panel superior doors to match the SP version I'm modelling. Unfortunately the doors are not a straight swap as the Weaver doors (above) have 6 panels...:eek:.
SP 01.jpg

SP 02.jpg

Apologies for picture quality as they were taken indoors, hand held camera under artificial light!
 

Yorkshire Dave

Western Thunderer
Done a bit more work on the SSW insulated car.

Namely applying the Highball Graphics ACI plates and the 'no running boards' warning, giving it a coat of matt varnish and weathering. Followed by the application of the new reporting mark, modern data, lubrication and maintenance panel and more weathering.

The chassis is yet to be finished with the draft gear, air brake details, and roller bearing trucks. The body requires tack boards, roof grab irons at the full height ladder end and it's brake wheel.

Close-ups can be cruel as a bit more work is required at some of the Walthers decal boundaries :rant:.

SSW insulated 19.jpg

SSW insulated 18.jpg

SSW insulated 17.jpg

SSW insulated 16.jpg

SSW insulated 15.jpg
 
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