7mm Poor man's Alamosa.

Scale7JB

Western Thunderer
Nice one Neil. No mercy shown. And then at my age the doubt sets in: I used Nitromors a long time ago - on an NJCB RS3. So ... have they changed the 'formula' to bring back a nod of satisfaction from Californian readers (hey, British product?). Apparently 'Yes' :'(
Thanks all,

Tim, I too was thinking cellulose thinners as it seems to eat through anything.

Jason, the plough is NJCB, and I have just tried cellulose thinners on a small patch underneath the plough itself, and then some chemical black, and it works perfectly!

I’ll try dunking the whole thing on another day and report back.

JB.
 

Scale7JB

Western Thunderer
Yes, I actually ment celly thinners but wrote IPA, tried that as well, nothing touched it. Maybe I'll try again and leave it longer.
I just went over it for about a minute or so with a cotton bud and it worked (on that area at least). Saying that there is an area in the corners that hadn't budged so may need an overnight soak.

JB.
 

JasonD

Western Thunderer
You may recall I'm a ~1980 D&H diesel era fan, but....

Nurse, another box of tissues purr-leeze ... quickly!
Jason

ps: the On30 version could go in the workshop superama, not viewable from the giveaway angles. If it's any help, every time I look at my Sunset D&H Challenger on the mantel-piece I say "it's only money!!".
 

Scale7JB

Western Thunderer
You may recall I'm a ~1980 D&H diesel era fan, but....

Nurse, another box of tissues purr-leeze ... quickly!
Jason

ps: the On30 version could go in the workshop superama, not viewable from the giveaway angles. If it's any help, every time I look at my Sunset D&H Challenger on the mantel-piece I say "it's only money!!".
It’s an idea, and definitely not in the biggest rush to sell it. I could well be incorrect, it does seem that the On30 versions are rarer than the On3 ?

JB.
 

Scale7JB

Western Thunderer
The remainder of the haul including a couple of the fantastic r-t-r San Juan Car Co wagons and 3 Westside Brass 6000 series flat cars. I’ve been after one of the long caboose’s for a while now and I have a kit for one too.. there will be plenty of caboose’s on the eventual layout now..

1FCE55A9-864F-437E-9E17-663C8E76E72F.jpeg

You may recognise the caboose from the initial inspiration picture at the beginning of this thread. All I need to complete that now is the Baldwin Diesel. The search continues…

B43F4543-A08A-42FC-9B18-46AB6FEDFE41.jpeg

JB.
 

Scale7JB

Western Thunderer
After a bit of information to those in the know please.

Im looking at building a Red Caboose GP9 kit in the near future, and I believe that its possible to use the Atlas/Roco(?) F9 trucks, and although these run quite well I don't think they be quite as good as I'd like and also the gear and motor tower is quite substantial.

I have found a motorising kit here Drive Kit, Universal, Includes 8514 Ball Bearing Motor, Motor Mounts, Tower, end Transmission, 2 Center Transmissions and all Necessary Hardware to Power a 4 Wheel Drive Locomotive, P&D Hobby Shop: Drive Kit, Universal, Includes 8514 Ball Bearing Motor, Motor Mounts, Tower, end Transmission, 2 Center Transmissions and all Necessary Hardware to Power a 4 Wheel Drive Locomotive but does this work with the Atlas cosmetic sides, or need to source other sides? I only ask as I have 3 of the F9's in stock as I had a crazy idea about kit bashing the 3 to make an A-B-A unit.

Thanks for any info.

JB.
 

mickoo

Western Thunderer
That drive requires cast brass Blomberg trucks as far as I know, if you want to use the Atlas side frames then you'll need an inner core to support the axles and affix the side frames.

I've not yet seen any decent brass Blombergs, they all suffer with hollow interiors and ugly bolsters that cut up and over the drive train, pretty much all after market drives are in the same vein, I actually only know of two, P&D and I think Jay Cresswell does some but I'm not that up to speed on it all. There does seem to be many ways to skin that cat, all of which require a lot of reworks, additional items and above all, $$$.

Even the OMI brass Blombergs on the GP30 I just bought are shameful when viewed low level, they are sprung axle boxes, like the ones mentioned above, the value of that is debatable in all honesty, certainly from my perspective; I've seen lots of rigid diesels run exceptionally well. The axle box springs are not to scale and just make the truck look like a toy in my eyes, other peoples mileage will vary.

The RC GP9 is designed around the Atlas/Roco drive train, it just drops right in, it's not the best, but given the price, is by far and away the most cost effective, by a massive margin.

Two other points, gear and motor tower is quite substantial, I think you'll find whatever off the shelf drive you buy will have a high motor tower, it's the nature of the beast with these sorts of drives. Gear towers can also be quite high on the other drives, probably just below floor level but I think some are just above, Jim will be along in due course with the in's and out's as we've been batting about ideas for a true below floor drive for some time.

The gear tower height is only an issue in the cab area and then you need to decide if you need both trucks powered, do you have long grades, do you have heavy loads, if not, then why both towers. If you're just switching at slow speeds then some extra weight and one truck I would of thought would suffice, hopefully I'll get some more practical experience once the bat cave is complete.

It's easy to flip the front truck and semi hide it behind a dummy fake cabinet but only for high nose engines, of which D&RGW is certainly a user, you'll still have the drive shaft running through the cab if you want dual truck drive. The only alternative for low nose models is to cut the tower right off and make a new pivot bearing plate and fixing.

Second point, not quite as good as I'd like, you'd need to quantify exactly what you don't like, I'm suspecting slow speed operation for switching, in which case I'd guess the trucks and gears are probably not the main issue, it'll be the motor, if you're just switching at slow speeds and not hacking along at 75 mph then your best bet is a replacement gearhead motor, add in DCC and you'll probably find running is just fine.

I wouldn't knock the Atlas/Roco drive, not given it's price and the cost of what you highlighted above, especially as you'll also need sprung cast brass trucks to go with it....same price, maybe a bit more...then add customs and excise, duty, VAT or whatever they throw at you.

The Delrin chain drive from P&D is quite popular, it's also popular in older RTR models from Weaver, I picked up a knackered RS-2 or something, right smashed up, but the wheels, gearboxes and towers are pretty much the same as the P&D set up. All up it was something like £60 from the states including all fees. You do run the risk of split gears etc but they're much cheaper to get and some places offer brass alternatives.

It really does depend where you want to go, personally I'm exploring pimping the Atlas/Roco drive far more than looking for a replacement and the inherent reworks you'll need to do to the model.

Some RC GP9 shots and notes ahead of your works.

Overall view of GP9 with stock Atlas/Roco trucks

IMG_0258.jpg

View of chassis, the RC chassis is plastic and has a tendency to sag in the middle, there are lots of workarounds, Dave did his with I think sheet metal, I opted for brass angle, note the truck retention horns are inboard and the front one impinges into the cab.

IMG_0233.jpg

By flipping the front truck around and reworking the drive input you can get the horns into the nose section, the inside part of the truck tower just impinges into the cab (5 mm or so if I recall correctly) so a dummy full height fake cabinet on the front wall would be needed hide it. Note, UJ is still at the front end and not flipped around.

IMG_0239.jpg

If you want to keep the front truck powered then the UJ protrudes just above the floor, you'd need a raised centre section or whole new floor just above it, truth is with a high nose you'd probably not notice. The red line is pretty close to where the inside face of the cab front sits, that'll give you an idea of how much the flipped truck impinges into the cab area. By the same token you can see how much has been saved when the horns are flipped around, they fill most of the cab ii a stock installation.

IMG_0248.jpg

The under frame benefits for some extra work, in my case all in Plasticard, with the knowledge and skill sets I have now, I'd go with metal and etched fabrication, in fact, I'd probably go with a whole new etched chassis and negate the need for strengthening. The flanges do split in the fish belly section as it travels across the top of the fuel tank.

IMG_0299.jpg

The new chassis is something I hope to explore more later in the year all things being well.
 
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JasonD

Western Thunderer
JB, I've raced thru' Mick's great reply and I just need me dinner as Jack Reagan would say.

Atlas F9 down-sides(?): plated white-metal wheels, but NWSL replacements available.

Judders come from the high point of drive/bolster centre, but I do have some 3rd party aluminium bolsters that bring it down to frame level. I'll try and find them and post a pic.

B-unit from 2xAs: I did one, straightforward, sold it years ago, D&H didn't have any. I have another in a 2nd-hand box ... more pics just for the idea, not up to your stds, but more important painted SP...!

P&D's parts are designed for brass replacement sideframes based around the dimensions of the Weaver power components, virtually the same as older Central Loco Works. Unfortunately the Weaver sideframe tooling was cannibalised when it fell into the hands of the 3-rai###aarrgghh!
 

Scale7JB

Western Thunderer
As ever Mick, you have too much time on your hands for an above and beyond write up ;)

However your lack of things to do is beyond appreciated, and all the above is exceptional. Next question is P48 wheels. I have seen some of these at P&D models too?

JB.
 

JasonD

Western Thunderer
Everybody knows that whenever P48 is mentioned I go into auto-empty-that-box mode: lots of branded, packaged 33" and 36" wheelsets and replacement bolsters for Athearn trucks, etc, list coming soon after Stokenchurch NMRABR Meet on Sunday 30th Jan next. Actual P48 things and Ow5 there too.
Jason
 

mickoo

Western Thunderer
As ever Mick, you have too much time on your hands for an above and beyond write up ;)

However your lack of things to do is beyond appreciated, and all the above is exceptional. Next question is P48 wheels. I have seen some of these at P&D models too?

JB.
For P48 wheels you need NWSL (North West Short Line) 2526-6, these are specifically for the RC GP9 model using the Atlas/Roco drive train and drop straight in.

 

mickoo

Western Thunderer
Atlas F9 down-sides(?): plated white-metal wheels, but NWSL replacements available.

Judders come from the high point of drive/bolster centre, but I do have some 3rd party aluminium bolsters that bring it down to frame level. I'll try and find them and post a pic.
I'm looking into swapping mine out for some wheels I got from Roxey, I think they might be from Peartree as a source, one side is fixed in the insulating bush, the other screws on and off the axle on a thread, unfortunately the axles are much thicker than the Atlas/Roco ones, though it might be possible to turn them down and preserve 90% of the thread fixing.

A lower fulcrum point would help, I've not seen these extra bolster plates and can't figure in my mind how they'd work. One trick I did find was to add a packing washer at the top under the pivot bearing, this limits the amount of float by quite a bit but under load the trucks will still tilt a little.
 
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