Magazine Re: Brm - Heljan Hymeks Etc..

[Phill Dyson]

Model Rail No159

I like the cranes fitted to the locos: I can see where the idea for "Diesel 10"  came from now...

They both have the same smiling face too if you look at the closed disc, bolt & headlights 

 

[Pennine MC]

Model Rail No159

Think I forgot to mention the roof, even on a cleanish loco I'd expect a tad more accumulation on the cab roof, particularly just above the rainstrip

I think the best trade secret is practice, practice, practice and use your eyes 

Absolutely, it doesnt sell magazines though   TBBH, something that  I've grown pretty tired of over the years is the amount of folk who seem to be  looking for some wonder technique that'll cut out the learning curve

 

[Neil]

Model Rail No159

........

I think the best trade secret is practice, practice, practice and use your eyes 

Absolutely, it doesnt sell magazines though   TBBH, something that  I've grown pretty tired of over the years is the amount of folk who seem to be  looking for some wonder technique that'll cut out the learning curve

I'm glad someone has mentioned this, as I believe I know what's meant, but have another way of looking at this.

Many years ago I used to work at one of York's day centres for adults with learning disabilities, in layman's terms downs syndrome and the like. The two day centres differed radically in their ethos. One promoted the concept of practise based learning, progress to further skills being made once competence had been attained at the stage the individual was at. Going to the shops independently for a Mars Bar therefore depended on the individual having road safety skills, basic literacy, a sufficiently wide vocabulary to ask the shopkeeper for what they wanted and reasonable money handling skills to work out the right change. The other day centre took short cuts. The shop didn't require any road crossing and the only skill the individual needed was to be able to pick up a Mars Bar, hand over a quid and wait for the change; though the latter was sometimes optional.

In our context though there's a place for high end craftsmanship, I believe there's also one for the quick and dirty dodges that bring creativity within reach of the average chap.

 

[CME & Bottlewasher]

Model Rail No159

Sorry for the late reply, I missed this somehow.

I've got a few thoughts about it.  Firstly, I think the article falls down as it's trying to cram too much into the space available.  There are a lot of techniques included that could have done with coverage in greater depth, a two part feature would probably have been better.

What I like about the model - the front is nicely done, with subtle streaking from the places you'd expect.  The fibreglass roof panel is very nicely done indeed and was one of those 'why didn't I think of that' moments.  I shall be using that technique on the next 33 across the workbench    I also liked the grime pattern on the snowploughs.  The grime along the base of the body and up the sides looks close, as seen here:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/beechwoodp ... otostream/
but it doesn't quite work for me, and I can't quite put my finger on why.

The rest of the roof doesn't convince me, I don't think it's faded enough compared to the treatment on the sides, or dirty enough.  The underframe doesn't look oily enough, the dirt is a little too light.  Other than that (and the paint finish as already noted) it's a very nice model.

I think it may come down to familiarity with the subject, as the Bedford and pallets in Cynric's link are the dogs bo**ocks!

Hi Pugsley,

I agree.

With ref to the article - it could have been spread over two editions/issues and in more depth as it only err scratched the suffice, then put on some weathering powders!! Ha Ha!!
Better still a DVD dedicated to SP's work - akin to Marcus Nicholls' dvds.

ATB

CME 

 

[CME & Bottlewasher]

Model Rail No159

Like Pugsley, I have come a bit late into this and having seen the article on the cl26 I agree with some of the previous comments, especially regarding the roof.  I would have expected this to be covered with dirt as this is hardly, if ever, touched by the brushes at carriage cleaning plants. As stated previously  The only thing missing is the insect collection on the front panel.  I've seen yellow warning panels covered with insects until they are almost black.

However, weathering is personal and most of my techniques have been gleaned from the Model Railroader other modelling magazines and talking to fellow modellers and wargamers. I'm happy to use and experiment with all techniques and mediums; artists oils, artists acrylics, Vallejo acrylic and very occasionally enamels. Whatever the medium I aim to keep my weathering uniform.

At the end of the day there's nothing to beat studying photographs of the prototype and observing nature.

Dave

HI Dave,

+1!

CME

 

[Pennine MC]

Model Rail No159

In our context though there's a place for high end craftsmanship, I believe there's also one for the quick and dirty dodges that bring creativity within reach of the average chap.

I wouldnt disagree with that, and I'm certainly not advocating any idea that only the 'high end' is good enough - if you think back a while Neil, to those relatively innocent days when  6WTS was on the go, basic techniques were (and still are) something I'm keen to raise awareness of.  They’re just  foundation stages that - whilst perfectly respectable in themselves - can if one wishes lead on to so much more.

The point I’m making is that so many folk will look at your work and ask how it was done, you can put a lot of time into trying to explain to them, and then they vanish without trace.  My impression, rightly or wrongly, is that they kinda go off the idea (of doing anything) when they realise that you can’t actually buy tins of multi-coloured, multi-layered paint that will give stunning effects in one hit.

As for dodges (or short cuts), it's perhaps another moot point but maybe they’re most effectively practised once familiarity with the complete route is gained?

 

[Simon Dunkley]

Model Rail No159

As for dodges (or short cuts), it's perhaps another moot point but maybe they’re most effectively practised once familiarity with the complete route is gained?

A friend once told that he was undertaking his masters level studies which had quite a bit of maths involved, he came across the phrase, "a trite calculation changes this to..." Well, he and several colleagues took some hours and several sheets of paper to confirm this trite calculation. Whne he was older, wiser, and more experienced, he discovered that there was actually a shortcut which did indeed make it a trite calculation!
There is a moral/parallel in there: even shortcuts require experience, so practise is the order of the day.

Maybe simplification is only possible once one understands the complication?
You can't break rules until you fully understand them, either!

I like to quote Dave Rowe on the odd occasions when I am demonstrating and people say that I "must" be patient to do this. On the contrary, I am very impatient, but what I hate most of all is doing something twice because I rushed it the first time...

 

[Neil]

Model Rail No159

.... The point I’m making is that so many folk will look at your work and ask how it was done, you can put a lot of time into trying to explain to them, and then they vanish without trace.  My impression, rightly or wrongly, is that they kinda go off the idea (of doing anything) when they realise that you can’t actually buy tins of multi-coloured, multi-layered paint that will give stunning effects in one hit. ....

Fair point; the notion of long apprenticeships seems to be a dim and distant memory these days, and part of the reason why I'm so keen on dodges, wheezes and short-cuts. The other is personal lazyness.

Re. multicoloured paint. Back when I used to work for the leccy board (NEEB) large amounts of multicoloured (speckled) paint were deployed, principally on the employee wash-rooms. It's been some time since I last saw this type of finish but the technology was certainly available.  Not sure that eggshell emulsion would be right for weathering though.

 

[Ressaldar]

Model Rail No159

Re. multicoloured paint. Back when I used to work for the leccy board (NEEB) large amounts of multicoloured (speckled) paint were deployed, principally on the employee wash-rooms. It's been some time since I last saw this type of finish but the technology was certainly available.  Not sure that eggshell emulsion would be right for weathering though.

from memory, the paint was called 'Portafleck' and was a multi coat application.

cheers

Mike

 

[Eastsidepilot]

Model Rail No159

"At the end of the day there's nothing to beat studying photographs of the prototype and observing nature."

You've hit the nail on the head Dave, close study of good pictures of your prototype and preferably in colour, finding good colour shots can be a bugger ( can I say that ) with steam loco's but can't see a problem with diesels and electrics.

Col.

 

[28ten]

Model Rail No159

In our context though there's a place for high end craftsmanship, I believe there's also one for the quick and dirty dodges that bring creativity within reach of the average chap.

The chap I mentioned earlier (Marcus Nicholls) probably falls into that category he builds a lot of kits for magazines and by nescessity he has developed some shortcuts. there is a clip of his work here.

The point I’m making is that so many folk will look at your work and ask how it was done, you can put a lot of time into trying to explain to them, and then they vanish without trace.  My impression, rightly or wrongly, is that they kinda go off the idea (of doing anything) when they realise that you can’t actually buy tins of multi-coloured, multi-layered paint that will give stunning effects in one hit.

You only have to look at the number of pre mixed weathering products available to see that 

 

[CME & Bottlewasher]

Model Rail No159

Hi Cynric,

MN's work is superb and his DVD's/vids are very good, I liked the techniques in the link - thanks.

Another way to execute those, would be the use of the 'maskol technique' and/or glass fibre brush (great care required using these techniques also so as not to over do it ) the same could be said for the snow ploughs on SP's Cl26 too 

CME :wave:

 

[Pennine MC]

We're now on MR 174 and Spence is back, with the 'hairspray technique' - once again, I'm interested in any views

FWIW and on the side of the (considerable) positives, I think the 16 tonner is terrific, varied and subtle, and the explanation of the method is lucid and easy to follow - it's also made clear that the 'headline' technique has been augmented with more traditional brushwork to add the finer points. I'm not keen on the 'nana van though, that one does seem more like a triumph of method over observation, and as a van, it doesnt IMO look particularly convincing; maybe it would have been better if George had finished the transfers first

 

[28ten]

I dont usually buy the mag but I found a shot of the wagons here http://georgedentmodelmaker.blogspot.co.uk/ . The mineral wagon certainly looks the part, but the van looks less impressive. Ill see if i can get a better look in Smiffs.

 

[28ten]

I actually bought the mag today, I dont normally buy the mainstream mags ( just MRJ - insert elitist comment here or something on signalling ) but I enjoyed the read, some nice shots of Hungerford, a piece on building 7mm GWR signals and plenty of 'doing', so overall a
Anyway back to the wagons, the mineral has some nice touches, although it lacks some dings and dents, which I would have expected from an armour modeller. The Banana van is less convincing, im not sure of the intended effect I havent seen any real vans looking like that. but for anybody not familiar with the techniques it is worth reading as there is something to learn from the article

 

[Phill Dyson]

I've always found Model Rail to be the best mainstream modeling mag