Re: West Mersea

[Buckjumper]

West Mersea

Yesterday I decided to take a day off from soldering my fingers to brass and chucking paint at various models in exchange for a little scenic work on the West Mersea, and so a small, but select band of heroes made it to Sudbury - John Birch, Steve Wheeler and his faithful hound Sopwith. John and I made some sockets to plug the buildings into down at the loco yard, while Steve diligently got on with ballasting the main line on the same boards. Sopwith guarded the lunch while Peter sat at his modelling desk building the new water tower.

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For those who can't see the difference between 32mm and S7 track... :wave:

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65447 has been exhibiting an intermittent electrical issue and has trashed a couple of chips - a problem I finally tracked down after the weekend. Now fixed, she runs beautifully and was recorded pootling in and out of the station. Apologies for the ropey filming, one hand on the phone trying to steady it (while getting electrical pulses up my arm from the tracks) and the other wrestling with the bally controller is not conducive to winning an Oscar for best cinematography...

 

[Scale7JB]

West Mersea

It's like the 'Wheeler & Birch' show..

I wish I had come along now.. How heavy was the dolls house ? 

JB.

 

[Buckjumper]

West Mersea

The ruddy thing was about 1cwt...

Peter was like Capt. Mainwaring directing John and me (Wilson & Pike) from the side of the pavement...up a bit, down a bit, left a bit, right a bit. Mind my fingers...stupid boy...  ;D

There was a running joke about freckles, but as this is a family-friendly forum, you'll have to ask Peter if he managed to avert his eyes...

 

[Scale7JB]

West Mersea



Look into the eyes, not around the eyes, into the eyes.. 

JB.

 

[Simon Dunkley]

West Mersea

Who, me..?? ;D
I note one is an overhead photo of pointwork, though.... :scratch: My slightly tongue-in-cheek flamer posted elsewhere was about views across plain track...
;D

I agree, Jordan: all Adrian's picture shows is that scale flangeways look more like the real thing, for the obvious reason that the flangeway is to scale. (If the more sophisticated amongst you find that statement rather tautologous, at least give me credit for being consistent.)
In terms of end-on view, you can fit a 7mm scale loco with scale wheels set for 32mm or indeed 31.5mm gauge track, and unlike the difference between P4 and 00, it would be quite hard to tell the difference.
(And how does one make a comparison with only one item - "The right leg is fine. I have nothing against the right leg. The problem is, neither do you.")

 

[Scale7JB]

West Mersea

In terms of end-on view, you can fit a 7mm scale loco with scale wheels set for 32mm or indeed 31.5mm gauge track, and unlike the difference between P4 and 00, it would be quite hard to tell the difference.

Unless there was a Scale7 loco sitting upon the aforementioned piece of track... flanges half the size, and correctly spaced frames. Do also remember that even though the gauge is only 1mm difference, the wheel back to back in Scale7 is over 2mm wider than that of 0 f/s. Wheels of 0 f/s gauge will when placed upon its 32mm track (and probably 31.5mm too) slide laterally between it's rails, but the the relation of S7 wheels to track mean that there isn't any sideways movement at all, and thats before we even get anywhere near the running qualities of S7 over a crossing vee...

Rest your finger on an S7 wagon, close your eyes, and roll the wagon over the S7 crossing vee, and I guarantee you wont be able to tell me where the crossing vee is.. 

Remember that Scale7 is not just about the look of the trackwork, but the way it runs too.. a la 'The Real Thing'..

JB.

 

[Dikitriki]

West Mersea

Rest your finger on an S7 wagon, close your eyes, and roll the wagon over the S7 crossing vee, and I guarantee you wont be able to tell me where the crossing vee is.. 

JB.

Same is true of well-built 31.5mm Wonder whether I'll get anyone asking whether Heyside's S7 at Manchester?  ;D

Richard

 

[Buckjumper]

West Mersea

Who, me..?? ;D

Yeah you 

I note one is an overhead photo of pointwork, though.... :scratch: My slightly tongue-in-cheek flamer posted elsewhere was about views across plain track... ;D

Of course it was TiC, and and as I said to Steve at the time, "I'll take this shot for Jordan.."

In all seriousness, it's not just one facet of the S7 standards in isolation that does it for me (in my own modelling  - and that's an important point!), but the whole gamut including the clearances through crossings, scale flanges, the relationship between frames above and below the running plate of steam locos et al. Of course Dikitriki is absolutely right (and Heyside is a great ambassador for it), 31.5mm track can exhibit the same running qualities as S7 when built well, and it's worth remembering S7 does need to be built well to run well too, and that always begins with the foundations - the baseboards.

What S7 (or S4, 2mmFS S-Scale or ScaleOne32) can't ensure is that a layout has that X-Factor. There are plenty of examples of layouts in 00, EM and 0F which exude that je ne sais quoi which often boils down to composition both within and without the boundary fence, the artistic talent of the builder (which encompasses colour and texture), or sometimes it just catches the spirit of the time and place, whether it's 1870 or 1970. When I'm viewing someone else's model, I really don't care what the track gauge, prototype or period is; the bottom line for me is, does it capture my imagination.

Edit: And there are some layouts built with true-to-prototype wheel and track standards that are inconsistent across the disciplines and/or bore the pants off me.

 

[Simon Dunkley]

West Mersea

Unless there was a Scale7 loco sitting upon the aforementioned piece of track... flanges half the size, and correctly spaced frames. Do also remember that even though the gauge is only 1mm difference, the wheel back to back in Scale7 is over 2mm wider than that of 0 f/s. Wheels of 0 f/s gauge will when placed upon its 32mm track (and probably 31.5mm too) slide laterally between it's rails, but the the relation of S7 wheels to track mean that there isn't any sideways movement at all, and thats before we even get anywhere near the running qualities of S7 over a crossing vee...

I accept all your points, but why did you make them? I made no mention of 0 f/s standards: I pointed out that if you were to use 32mm track gauge with scale flangeways and scale wheels, there would be very little difference. Maybe I didn't make it clear enough?

Rest your finger on an S7 wagon, close your eyes, and roll the wagon over the S7 crossing vee, and I guarantee you wont be able to tell me where the crossing vee is.. 

Have done that. It is still possible, depending on how the wagon was built - e.g. 3-point compensation.

Remember that Scale7 is not just about the look of the trackwork, but the way it runs too.. a la 'The Real Thing'..

Glad to hear that you have managed to solve the intractable problems related to reducing sideways forces related to area (hence an inverse-squared relationship between the model and "The Real Thing") and the mass of the model, which has been subjected to an inverse-cube reduction, thus creating track which is, proportionately speaking, 43 times more rigid than the prototype.
How do you deal with reducing running fit tolerances to be an exact scale reduction from the real thing? They would reduce to an interference fit?
Incidentally, on your steam locos, have you fitted different profiles on the tyres, depending on where in the wheel arrangement the wheelset is? Or have you allowed a little extra sideplay and hence increased some clearances to accommodate this?

Jordan's point was that on plain track with nothing on it, you cannot tell the difference between 0 gauge and S7. Mine was that if you were to fit true-scale wheels, it is still hard to tell the difference.

Believe me, I cannot see the sense in 0 "finescale" because as a set of standards it is riddled with contradictions and compromises, and I am all for getting wheels and tracks as close to the prototype as is feasibly possible, but you cannot make a model operate "a la 'Real Thing' " because the same laws of physics apply to the model as to the prototype, with some consequences having a linear reduction in scale, some a square, and some a cubic.

I have built in S scale, ScaleOne32 and indeed a little S7 (but thank you for reminding me of key facts which I had obviously forgotten), and I do know enough of what I am talking about.

Scale standards, for those who accept the concomitant requirement for working to finer tolerances (simply means taking a bit more time and care over things) are a significant step forward to running which is more like the real thing, but don't make hyperbolic claims about it.

Same is true of well-built 31.5mm Wonder whether I'll get anyone asking whether Heyside's S7 at Manchester?

Actually, Richard, one thing you can do if you are running to 31.5mm gauge is to buy Slater's S7 wheelsets, take them off the axles, carefully remove the 1mm thick moulded washer from the back of the wheel, and sand it flat, and reassemble the wheelset: you now have a scale profile wheel set to run on 31.5mm and indeed 32mm gauge track. It should run just as well as standard "finescale" wheels. Have tried this out with a friend on a very small "plank" layout, and would be intrigued to hear if it worked out on a larger layout, even if - or especially if - done on just one wagon in the middle of a train.

I see that Adrian has made lots of points that are really important - things done well always look good and work well...

What S7 (or S4, 2mmFS S-Scale or ScaleOne32) can't ensure is that a layout has that X-Factor... ...When I'm viewing someone else's model, I really don't care what the track gauge, prototype or period is; the bottom line for me is, does it capture my imagination.

Far Oyster and Twittermouth, anyone?

 

[westernfan]

West Mersea

I take my hat off to all those who strive to and achieve modelling to exact scale . well beyound my efforts ,but the only scale to me  that the visable effect of  true gauge  track is modelled is in tt , a couple of mm from 12mmm to 14.2ish i once saw an irish outline layout in 3mm scale and the 5ft 3 in gauge looked as if it was oo-ho

 

[Eastsidepilot]

West Mersea

Phew! after all that............

"Peter was like Capt. Mainwaring directing John and me (Wilson & Pike)"

"Don't tell 'em yer name Pike".......


Col.

 

[Scale7JB]

West Mersea

Quite a bit more scenic done at the last meeting, including the loco yard walling, fitting of new buildings and coaling stage as well, as grass, but I guess that is the most obvious bit..

 

[Scale7JB]

West Mersea

 

[Ressaldar]

West Mersea

Hi JB,

nice work there - I thought that Ivo Peters was an S&D man - but then again, I think his Bentley was S&D Blue

cheers

Mike

 

[Eastsidepilot]

West Mersea

Hey ! where's all the tools I left lying all over the track last time I was there  ;D

Col

 

[Eastsidepilot]

Something a bit different.
Interesting visitor to the WMR recently was John Birch's Ozzie railcar. It's a ready to run O gauge model that John has converted to S7. It is DCC fitted with sound and lights, very nice.
John who is a member of the WMR group is an Australian Railways enthusiast and isabout to embark on building a layout based on an Oz station.

 

[Eastsidepilot]

An early warning for all who are visiting the WMR for the Christmas bash, which is only 6 weeks away ( yeh I know , it's depressing ha,ha) it will be on the Sunday 11th December this year, that's two weeks BEFORE Christmas.

ATB, Col.

 

[Old Buffer]

Many thanks for the welcome, had a great day with you, learned a lot and will be joining S7 shortly, hope to see you all again next month.
Alan

 

[Buckjumper]

Alan - I didn't realise you were there or I'd have said hello. It was pretty busy today though with twenty three bods through the door - that's a lot of talking. I'll catch up with you next month!

 

[Eastsidepilot]

Good to meet you Alan, glad to hear your coming over to S7 mate, look forward to seeing you at the next meeting.
I think furthest travelled was Mick from Yorkshire good to see you too, G5's coming along nice mate, will you beat JB ?
It was a busy meeting this month with I believe twenty souls turning up( blimey we out numbered JB's loco for once) , sorry that's twenty one including Sopwith our mascot hound who's Master is Steve, who along with John Watson were attending to the track and ballast. John Birch had a nice sample of a 3D printed chimney and dome, look's like he may get some orders for these.
The food got demolished so poor old Pete(our Host) probably has no supper !

JB ran his coaching stock, Ade bought along a J69(it's a 67, shouts Ade, I stand corrected ) in primer, Dave "Sclub7" had two wagons with working brakes(you canjust see them in the photo with JB's loco's).

If I've forgotten anything Lad's then add to the post.

ATB, Col