1/32 Scratch Building Locos And Stock In 1/32

[mickoo]

Mick,

Anyway, back on topic , I take your point with the roof ribs; have you got pictures of the locos under construction that might help? I was thinking about this again this evening and dug out a couple of pictures of 10201 under construction, which showed an almost aircraft-like construction, with hoops and stringers. However I've also managed to baffle myself completely with the arrangement of the roof panels - a clear roof shot would help me enormously.

Good luck with the Carter drawings - I recognise their odd (mostly minor) weak points having re-drafted a set of Class 50 drawings some years ago. But they remain very useful and much better, in general, than anything else available.

Steph

Steph, these are about the best roof shots I've found on the web

http://www.flickr.com/photos/brianews/5863363870/sizes/l/in/set-72157627028690682/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/brianews/5863364180/sizes/l/in/set-72157627028690682/

they clearly show the dents and dings the roof panels take, of further note are the panel weather seals, they will be a chore if I am to replicate the rounded profile correctly. I do have some construction shots in a book, will fire up the scanner some time today and scan them in, I presume it'll be alright to post them here so long as credit is given to original author?.

Class 50, that is one on the to do list, I havent gone over the drawings yet with respect to the 1:1 loco, so don't/didn't know there were issues with his Class 50 drawing, having said that, I've seen lots written on the minor faults from the Carter drawings, so it kind of follows that most if not all will have errors here and there. Do you per chance have the factory roof radii, if it follows my hunch of EE using the same profile then they should be 65 & 1/16" for the main roof and 22 & 9/16" for the cant rail/grill part.

Kindest

 

[iploffy]

Hello my friend and welcome to this excellent forum, I dont know if you need them but if you want I have a load of class 40 photo's if you want 'em let me know and I will PM you

Ian

 

[mickoo]

Hello my friend and welcome to this excellent forum, I dont know if you need them but if you want I have a load of class 40 photo's if you want 'em let me know and I will PM you

Ian

Ian, thats very gracious of you, I'll take everything and anything, to me, you can never have enough photos.

Kindest

 

[28ten]

Thank you, the cruiser is modeling in a completely different vein, there are some issues with the hull shape, but the application of Fibre glass inside and copious amounts of sanding outside will solve that, retaining the distinctive chimes will be a chore though. To be fair I'm more of a merchant vessel man myself but figured a missile cruiser would be a good place to start! ?.

I'll have to look into this rippling, though on initial thinking, I'm tending more to a painted solution rather than a physical one.

Kindest

I have seen some ships modeled in solidworks to get all the profiles correct. Are you fitting R/C?

 

[Steph Dale]

Big project and I know what you mean about plans, it seems virtually impossible to track down GA's for anything post '65.

Cynric, is that a typo? Do you mean '56? (Class 40 was when? '57?)...
Anyway there are two problems being run up against here. Firstly most of the BR diesel locos came from private builders, so understandably weren't in the main works archives. The second issue is that even where GAs do survive, they're next to useless for us modellers. All GAs show the layout of the locomotive's significant items to determine fit, weight dimensions, etc. What we actually need are outline drawings; and they weren't always produced. The alternative might be to try and dig out the part drawings for the panelling, but that'd be a pain to do too...

Despite that there a good few Outline and Arrangement drawings in the OPC (microfilm) lists at the NRM (yes, I've just looked).

Mick,
If you're going to be having a further attempt at the skin on this model and are already using superglue in the construction, had you thought about using smooth card to form the roof? I have had good success in the past using Manilla card; once it's been doped with shellac it's very like plasticard to work with, but takes a curve more easily. I'm going to see if I can find a source of sheets of the sort of card I've used before to see if would help with my carriage building. Or even the slightly warped thought I've had running around in my head relating to the two Gas Turbines...

I'll check the info I have in on the Class 50 and get back to you.

Steph

 

[mickoo]

I have seen some ships modeled in solidworks to get all the profiles correct. Are you fitting R/C?

Guv, well to take this way off topic LOL, yes RC is envisaged, one of my many anoraks is warships, but specifically Essex class carriers, I've been researching them for 20 years now. Any how I got out of railways modeling to get into 3D modeling, mainly for flight sims but also train sims, anyone here remember 'Blue Arrow' well I modeled locos for them but the real bread and butter was flight sims, thus I came proficient in 3D Studio Max. Along the way I met some great friends, one was a warship modeler also into Essex class carriers, so I drafted up a 3D model for him, the idea was to render the model in grey, ie what you got out of the kit box, then to render all the after market parts in yellow to represent the etched brass parts etc, these renders would then go into a book he was producing, sadly we drifted apart but the models converted very nicely into flight sim. They're in no way finished, always a work in progress. The Essex of course needed an escort, so a Cleveland class cruiser was selected, one thing led to another and it was that which I decided to model in 1:96, all be it in modified guided missile cruiser form, though the hull and most of the major fwd structures are the same (dependent on vessel chosen) so I suppose WWII variant is a possibility if I decide. In reality I'll probably get the cruiser as a floating hull, maybe motors and rudder (a sort of proof of concept and working techniques model) and then jump into an Essex carrier.

Re the cruiser, I had the good fortune to get to know a guy who had served on one and he sent me a excellent set of hull drawings he had prepared from navy yard blue prints, he is also an accomplished 3D artist, those interested in such things can view his work here http://www.okieboat.com/CAD model.html his rendering and 3D work is exceptional and his images are almost better than seeing the real thing. Any how, I had problems working out where the shafts would run so whipped up a 1:96 model in 3D, using actual material thicknesses and measurements from my hull formers.

Below some images from my other hobby , the skills in 3DSM will be very handy for 3D printing, its sad that I can whip up a part in 3D so much faster than real and you cannot touch it!, I've also thrown in some planes and trains, the trains are less detailed because the host sim cannot cope with high detailed models like flight sim can. Sadly I've lost the 9K mesh, shame as I really do have a soft spot for them, A5's too but never got around to modeling one of them, real, or virtual.



I also tend to model virtual locos that I want to build in model form, so some of those and many others are always under constant research.

Apologies for the massive OT, I personally don't mind in my thread so others feel free to chip in or ignore at their pleasure.

Kindest

 

[mickoo]

Just another 3D update, more on topic this time , as mentioned elsewhere, I'm also looking at modeling a BoB/WC and had the good fortune to wander over 34081 at NVR on the way back from NRM York where I had purchased digital copies of frame and sundry drawings for these locos, from the Brighton works register. I'm not sure what scale this will be, maybe 1:32 but I'm thinking bigger, no intention of live steam, actually little interest in making it go other than perhaps like one of those display locos where the wheels go round so you can see all the motion move....not much of that on Bullied Spam cans ehh!. So may opt for 2.5" or even 3.5" static display model.

Before the trip to York and NVR (going back to NVR this week I hope for more photos) I whizzed up a set of frames from info thats available on the web in 3D, didn't take long, but they are woefully inaccurate so will be binned once I clean up the drawings from York (read re draw to more legible format). One crying shame about 3D work, good as I am I just seem not to be able to replicate in model form, not yet anyway, I suppose thats what happens when you give up hands on modeling for virtual modeling for 13+ years <sigh>.

I'm also uploading all my frame shots from my previous NVR trips to my Flickr site, will post a link once they're all there, so any Bullied fans here can grab if they wish. Uploaded here http://www.flickr.com/photos/32755955@N05/sets/72157629330938567/



Kindest

 

[mickoo]

Mick,
If you're going to be having a further attempt at the skin on this model and are already using superglue in the construction, had you thought about using smooth card to form the roof? I have had good success in the past using Manilla card; once it's been doped with shellac it's very like plasticard to work with, but takes a curve more easily. I'm going to see if I can find a source of sheets of the sort of card I've used before to see if would help with my carriage building. Or even the slightly warped thought I've had running around in my head relating to the two Gas Turbines...

I'll check the info I have in on the Class 50 and get back to you.

Steph

Steph, well Plasticard seems ok, it's probably techniques, not good at the moment!, no matter what adhesive I use I run into problems, Zap yellow or green leaves finite ridges and lumps under the skin, actually almost replicating the dings and dents we conversed about earlier, pink Zap....no I just can't work out how best to use this!, its so fluid, it just seems to pour every where except where I want it to go?, I suppose it doesn't help using it to try and join curved parts, I'm sure its just my application technique. I tried to let it wick on the latest side piece, hopeless, just not an even join. The card sounds like it might help, certainly as an inner layer to add support, but I'm determined to make this Plasticard stuff work LOL.

Plasticweld is also all but useless for laminating large areas, you can only stick about 2" sq, any more than that and it dries out and has no sticking strength, applying more just results in soft spots, what I need is a plastic adhesive that takes about 30-40 seconds to evaporate, not the 2-3 Plastciweld does, then I can position and laminate large pieces.

Anyway, despite the set backs that often see three back and one forward, the Class 40 progresses, B side is complete as is the roof, the grills will come later, not quite sure the best way to replicate them, probably layered Plasticard to represent the grills and spaces, I'd thought about making one and then casting, still may but I'll ponder that issue anon. The engine room door edging, window seals and edging around the radiator will be etched brass, still need to scribe the engine room door and water tank filler door, probably do that once all of the body is finished and smoothed before adding details etc, also need to fill in the top and bottom of the handrail recesses.

My method of construction is certainly not the best, MkIII should eliminate a lot of the problems regarding grills and getting them with square edges etc, still need to find a better adhesive for laminating, might have to look at this sheet Zap you mention?.

Todays progress in pictures.



Kindest

 

[28ten]

Great stuff another geek on board
Can 3ds export to .stl and/or dxf? Im assuming that from what you say it can. Can it unwrap the surfaces?
I have never used 3ds, im an Autocad/Solidworks/Inventor type of guy and I have never had to do much surfacing. I find the virtual modelling addictive and I dould quite happily build a virtual trainset
1/32 for the spam can, given the works drawings it would be easy to whip up a set of templates on the laser for profile milling some test pieces.

 

[mickoo]

Great stuff another geek on board
Can 3ds export to .stl and/or dxf? Im assuming that from what you say it can. Can it unwrap the surfaces?
I have never used 3ds, im an Autocad/Solidworks/Inventor type of guy and I have never had to do much surfacing. I find the virtual modelling addictive and I dould quite happily build a virtual trainset
1/32 for the spam can, given the works drawings it would be easy to whip up a set of templates on the laser for profile milling some test pieces.

Guv, 3DSM will export in many forms, not .stl though, but will export .dxf and .dwg, I've already passed the BoB frames through, as well as the Class 40/55 body profiles, both into Autocad, however thats where it all falls over, I'm now at that stage of life so eloquently described by Alexi Sayle, who advocated that memory is but a mere bunch of boxes, eventually they will all be full, so any new information usually involves emptying one of the others . IE it's all getting like hard work these days LOL.

I am slowly learning Autocad, need too for the etches I'm planning, but it is a slow process, not done any for a few weeks now so forgotten what I'd just learnt....note to self....make more notes!. I'm not sure if the shape imported into Autocad can be unwrapped, wish it could as that would leave it idea for etching, I'm fairly sure 3DSM will have an unwrap function somewhere, but I can't find it at the moment, the best unwrap is the texture applicator, but its output is jpg, you could probably use that but it shows every face modeled so you would need to layer and outline on the new layer, might as well learn Autocad at that rate.

Rendering, ohh don't get me onto that, its great!, the carriers were rendered in scene just for kicks, adding a sky background and sea then messing with cameras and lights, I could model 3D all day, but now want to model something that's tangible. I did run up some 3D printing cab for DBAG locos, TRAXX (all phases) and a BR140 (an be used with alterations for 150 and 110), attached below, but the current quality seems quite low, especially when you get to 1:32, the TRAXX is recessed to take Plasticard or brass sheet over the face and sides, so its a sort of plug and effectively your using 3D printing to get that chamfered edge and use it was a support for the skin. Given the recent skills learned on the Class 40 I thing it'd be easier to whip it up in Plasticard to be honest.

Regarding scale, 1:32 would be nice, but then I'd be duplicating Asters and I see little point in that, 2.5" or 3.5" are not that much bigger, there's a natural split in the frames under the firebox where the rear drag box and cab support frames are attached, and you could split the front off and the join behind the cylinders. Still no idea what material I'll opt for, Plasticard is so easy to work with, but going large has structural implications. Having said that, theres a bunch of guys stateside modeling in Plasticard to F Scale (1:20.3), steamers too, very nice work, that's Plasticard construction on a huge scale, always fancied a C&O Allegheny, UP Challenger, PRR Q2, or, or....must show restraint!!, not operational, just static exhibits.



Kindest

 

[28ten]

Autocad doesnt unwrap without various LISP routines, but it's a doddle in inventor or solidworks using sheet metal commands, if you want to send me a dwg of the frames I'll see what I can do.
I agree about the 3d printing, but it is getting better all the time and I think in a few years we will just print a part off. Whilst the Aster is a nice live steam model it doesn't have the finesse an electric or static model and in 1/32 you can get some rolling stock to go with it, not to mention the chance to pose it next to a few Warships

 

[mickoo]

Autocad doesnt unwrap without various LISP routines, but it's a doddle in inventor or solidworks using sheet metal commands, if you want to send me a dwg of the frames I'll see what I can do.
I agree about the 3d printing, but it is getting better all the time and I think in a few years we will just print a part off. Whilst the Aster is a nice live steam model it doesn't have the finesse an electric or static model and in 1/32 you can get some rolling stock to go with it, not to mention the chance to pose it next to a few Warships

Guv, the .dwg will be a while, as mentioned before, what I have is no where near to scale or accurate, it'll all need redoing again in due course, but I will consider your offer when the time arrives, thank you.

BoB and Warships, hmmm yes I see, that could be a good argument LOL. I used to live in Teignmouth when very young, I did spot but have no idea how accurate my spotting was, being six and all that LOL, I did see Warships and Westerns but have no memories, just lines in a book, having said that I knew it was a Warship coming on the SVR from three miles away, hadn't heard one for 30 years but that sound never left my conscience. Of course BoB/WC also ran through Teignmouth on the coast road, quite often too by all accounts, I wouldn't say daily, but certainly monthly or even weekly, I'm sure some timetable guru will enlighten in due course .

Aster, your right, whilst very nice, and very expensive, they are working models so lack ultra detail that perhaps the electric 1:32 brigade would add.
Kindest

 

[mickoo]

A side is almost complete to B side levels and was just beginning to map out the roof panels etc, the drawings are....shall we say...circumspect in size and position. I'd like to ask the great WT oracle for a favor, if any one owns a JLRT class 40 can they please measure the distance between the two exhaust ports left and right, center to center, also the length/arc length of the panel that goes around the radiator fan, the one with all the bolts around it, or even just the straight width of the panel, I can work out the arc from the radius etc from that.

Kindest Michael

 

[28ten]

Im fairly sure that mr ploffy has one as he has this silly thing for class 40's

 

[iploffy]

I certainly do !!!!!!!!,Is there anyway you could possibly wait until tomorrow for the info as we will be making our way to Lincoln to visit uncle Marsa and we will measure it then for you.

 

[iploffy]

Im fairly sure that mr ploffy has one as he has this silly thing for class 40's

Lets call it a bit of an obsession with WCML loco's and leave it at that OK oh Jedi Master

 

[mickoo]

Lets call it a bit of an obsession with WCML loco's and leave it at that OK oh Jedi Master

You and me both, been an avid fan of WCML since a very early age, father came from Macclesfield so stories of Crewe and the 'big un's' were often told, spent many a happy week on hols with the grandparents in and around the Manchester/ Crewe area and then training courses at Wolverton and Mill Meece just kept the fires burning, I take a interest from about 1955 onward but tend to focus on the transition period of steam/diesel/electric but being an 60's kid puts me at early 80's for my personal experiances as opposed to those read in a book, so 'roarers' cans and scots are all favorites as well

I certainly do !!!!!!!!,Is there anyway you could possibly wait until tomorrow for the info as we will be making our way to Lincoln to visit uncle Marsa and we will measure it then for you.

Thank you, it is greatly appreciated, I'm due to start shift block tomorrow so little if any modeling for the next four days will be accomplished, at your leisure will be fine, theres plenty more to do with getting hung up on the roof at the moment. If your obliging there might be a couple more measurments I may need in due course, ones I cannot reach and measure from the ground at NVR, I didn't get there this week sadly, but hopefully next week.

Kindest

 

[iploffy]

Well were do I start I was Born In the shadow of Bescot, spent many a happy hour there and witnessed everything from 08's to 56's including all electric types. I even saw 13003 on it's way to the scrap yard in the sky at BS. My layout is based loosely on the track plan of the Stour Valley between Tipton and Dudley Port (another of my haunts) and I have worked as a guard for the past 23 years. It's a pity you live so far away as you could knock yourself out and measure it yourself as much as you want

Ian

 

[mickoo]

Ok, just a small update, fleshed out the nose core and applied a single skin over the bonnet, to be honest, not overly happy with the result, the bonnet curve is not uniform and the sharpening radius where it meets the side is neither uniform along each side or with each other, I've also issues with it being too high by a few mm. So, back to square one, rip it all off and preserve as much of the core as reasonably practicable and start again and build again along different principles. The front radii look ok so they will stay...for the time being LOL.



Kindest

 

[iploffy]

Mick I have approx 20 pictures with measuring tape across the locomotive but I can't find the lead to down load them from my camera I will have to go to Jessops tomorrow and get either a new lead or an SD card reader, someone had removed them from the drawer (that ghost strikes again) is it ok for me to post them ASAP