1/32 Scratch Building Locos And Stock In 1/32
- Thread starter mickoo
- Start date
mickoo
Western Thunderer
Excellent, thank you so much, now off to check mine out LOL, I did a little more today, managed to get the core structure for the cab doors in, in between chasing the NMT HST as it's does the rounds in E Anglia today, hope to bag some night shots at Felixstowe later for good measure.
BTW, thats a very nice model you have there, still haven't decided if it's going to be bar or split head code yet, probably split, for some reason I associate those with the LMR.
Kindest
BTW, thats a very nice model you have there, still haven't decided if it's going to be bar or split head code yet, probably split, for some reason I associate those with the LMR.
Kindest
J
jason clarke
Guest
Great thread Mickoo, will be watching this with great interest as the Class 40 is not a million milesaway from the Class 45 that I hope to build at some point.
Jason
Jason
mickoo
Western Thunderer
Jason, well the interest bubble has returned full circle, a visit to NRM this week and a measurment of D200 shows that the loco is quite far out in the drawings I had, especially around the cab area, a few mm here and there I can cope with but in some places it is more than that, so with regret the current model is idle. However, it has served well as a construction test bed for building techniques in 1:32 and a MkII will be forthcoming, in the mean time a Class 45 will soon break surface, the intention here is to make the cabs in CAD and then produce in FUD from shapeways for resin casting.
With hindsight I should of picked the Class 45 first, about halfway through the roof on the Class 40 I realized that engines with cant rail grills were ging to be a bear to model, getting a smooth curvature through here with openings is very difficult, other locos that benifit from this avoidance are class 50 (one small grill), Western, Warship, etc, those to avoid are Class 40, Class 37, Deltic (though there is a way around that class), Class 47, 56, etc.
I'll be asking the mods to change the thread title in due course to reflect the new change in direction and allow it to cover a broader spectrum.
Kindest
mickoo
Western Thunderer
Quite so.
The other day, whilst sorting some under bench items, I came across the aborted Deltic wooden body mould master. Cant rail grills or not, it's an itch I am failing to quell as my mind wanders the possibilities of using the same technique, or exisiting work, to make further progress on either a Deltic MkII or a class 45 Mk I LOL.
The class 40 used too much plasticard to make a rigid box from which to work, I foresee a ply/wood base (I believe Steph had similar thoughts for a SR Spam can earlier in the thread) on which much thinner plasticard is placed to allow detail work. Some trials with adhesives to see what will stick plasticard to wood or if the wood needs to be sealed first (varnish etc) and an adhesive used.
The Deltic master Mk I was coated in fibre glass resin with out matting (though matting was used inside the curved roof where the skin was 1mm ply), the resin hardens very well and adds extra strength to thin ply sections.
I've also been having recent nefarious thoughts about a 5" loco, static model atm.
Kindest
40126
Western Thunderer
mickoo
Western Thunderer
Steady, you'll do yourself a mystery with all that jumping up and down LOL.SPLITTTTTT
Steve
Kindest
mickoo
Western Thunderer
After looking & joining in with this thread Ive just spent the last 1/2 hr on flickr looking at pics of my favourite (BLUE) Diesel
Steve
Good man!, not sure about google but Flickr is 'my' friend LOL.
Question to the great WT oracle, anyone know the roof radius, cant rail radius and body side tumblehome radius for a Western please?. Hopefully a result here, if not I'll post in the WR action forum.
Kindest
WellThatDiddntGoToWell
Active Member
Well I have just read through this thread, totally inspiring stuff and even it it was a write off, I'm sure you have learnt a lot for your next attempt or project. I know I have.
On sandpaper, a tip handed down by a professional model maker to a professional bodge maker or father to son if you like. If you need a finer or a unique grade than those available, take a sheet of the nearest grade and simply rub it against itself until you have what can give you the finish you desire.
Regards
Dean
On sandpaper, a tip handed down by a professional model maker to a professional bodge maker or father to son if you like. If you need a finer or a unique grade than those available, take a sheet of the nearest grade and simply rub it against itself until you have what can give you the finish you desire.
Regards
Dean
mickoo
Western Thunderer
Dean, thank you, I've actually done a little more than the last image shows, basically the cab doors and supports either side of the one cab already started have been done, it's not a total write off and it sits on my desk glaring at me to carry on LOL, but truth be told what I have already achieved could be accomplished so much easier with different techniques, a trip to NRM and some measurments have shown the current model, and the drawings I were working from, to be out by a few mm here and there, you wouldn't think that mattered but it does and throws the 'look' of the model out.
Whilst I am having a hiatus from actual modelling I have been busy researching other projects and adding more detailed reference material to the existing class 40 project, my biggest problem is to decide on a scale and then decide on a subject. The scale forms the largest dilema, stick with 1:32 and then have a depot layout or such like with moving trains (Camden or Kings X passenger loco oft called 'bottom shed' are ideal candidates) or move to scale3 and just have larger static models, or models that move up and down, live steam or hauling large loads are not in my gunsight at the moment. I have in my minds eye a size of static model that suits my comfort zone, IE 1m long or there abouts, 3'5" gauge works for me but there is a noticeable lack of fundamental parts like wheels for instance, no issue for diesels as I can turn my own, but for a steam project it's a major stumpling point, 2'5" gauge has a nice collection and covers almost all that my prospective projects require....at a cost, which then leads onto, do you need cast steel wheels for a static model? which further leads to a train of thought to make wheels in 3D, have them printed and then cast resin ones, much cheaper in the long run and ultimately more satisfying from a modellers point of view, the resin ones would have a thin bead around the rim so that they could pop into steel tyres to give that steel effect...that only steel can. If static then exact trueness can be mitigated, but if they are to move, even if only on a rolling road type static roadbed (insert coin here >/ type diorama) then trueness on the axel and rim are essential. Add to this, if static and the rolling road is the driving force does one need to motorize?.
This leads to the lathe, what is the maximum size of rim that can be turned, 2.5" gauge can be accomodated, and if I recall my calculations 3.5" as well, but a 6'8" in 5" is just outside of my lathes envelope, of course one can whizz them up at work on the workshop lathe which will go as large as 18" OD but then one runs the risk of prying eyes over ones shoulder. A 5" model just appeals to my 'large' scale ego, I saw a 5" class 40 at Warley last year and despite its shape defects...and I do empathize with the modeller on the areas effected having had similar issues in the same areas, it has had a lasting impression on me, that and a 5" Stanier tender at Ally Pally this year, with scale come grandeur.
At this moment in time the subject matter is almost defunct, the doing I think I will have little issue with the actual doing, the biggest issue is the type of model I wish to do next, static exhibition or moving model, that decision will almost certainly decide the scale and thus by default the subject matter...I hope. A collegue at work deduced that the easiest way to resolve this is to put two pieces of paper on the wall (a 3rd party) with the choices facing away from you, then throw 10 darts at them, the one with the most darts is the choice and then JFDI (Just Fffin Do It).
Regarding subject matter the choices are stupidly varied but top of the pile with many recent book purchases for reference material are Gresley A4, Deltics, Princess Coronation, close behind A1, Princess, Jubilee, 8F, Class 45, BoB/WC, Western, DSB Mz, My and in third ranking, well too many to list, all have reached a plateu of data aquistion and either one could jump forward on the receipt of final deciding information. Truth be told it'll probably come down to a single inspiring image in a book or on the web.
Anyway, enough drivel time to peruse more books over lunch break LOL, but I'll make a decision shortly as I'm concious that all this cojugation and hand wringing is achieving nothing. One final point, what ever it is will be mixed media, Plasticard, Brass, Nickle steel, Resin, and even wood in places, a real hotch potch of how shall we say...not to do it LOL.
Whilst I am having a hiatus from actual modelling I have been busy researching other projects and adding more detailed reference material to the existing class 40 project, my biggest problem is to decide on a scale and then decide on a subject. The scale forms the largest dilema, stick with 1:32 and then have a depot layout or such like with moving trains (Camden or Kings X passenger loco oft called 'bottom shed' are ideal candidates) or move to scale3 and just have larger static models, or models that move up and down, live steam or hauling large loads are not in my gunsight at the moment. I have in my minds eye a size of static model that suits my comfort zone, IE 1m long or there abouts, 3'5" gauge works for me but there is a noticeable lack of fundamental parts like wheels for instance, no issue for diesels as I can turn my own, but for a steam project it's a major stumpling point, 2'5" gauge has a nice collection and covers almost all that my prospective projects require....at a cost, which then leads onto, do you need cast steel wheels for a static model? which further leads to a train of thought to make wheels in 3D, have them printed and then cast resin ones, much cheaper in the long run and ultimately more satisfying from a modellers point of view, the resin ones would have a thin bead around the rim so that they could pop into steel tyres to give that steel effect...that only steel can. If static then exact trueness can be mitigated, but if they are to move, even if only on a rolling road type static roadbed (insert coin here >/ type diorama) then trueness on the axel and rim are essential. Add to this, if static and the rolling road is the driving force does one need to motorize?.
This leads to the lathe, what is the maximum size of rim that can be turned, 2.5" gauge can be accomodated, and if I recall my calculations 3.5" as well, but a 6'8" in 5" is just outside of my lathes envelope, of course one can whizz them up at work on the workshop lathe which will go as large as 18" OD but then one runs the risk of prying eyes over ones shoulder. A 5" model just appeals to my 'large' scale ego, I saw a 5" class 40 at Warley last year and despite its shape defects...and I do empathize with the modeller on the areas effected having had similar issues in the same areas, it has had a lasting impression on me, that and a 5" Stanier tender at Ally Pally this year, with scale come grandeur.
At this moment in time the subject matter is almost defunct, the doing I think I will have little issue with the actual doing, the biggest issue is the type of model I wish to do next, static exhibition or moving model, that decision will almost certainly decide the scale and thus by default the subject matter...I hope. A collegue at work deduced that the easiest way to resolve this is to put two pieces of paper on the wall (a 3rd party) with the choices facing away from you, then throw 10 darts at them, the one with the most darts is the choice and then JFDI (Just Fffin Do It).
Regarding subject matter the choices are stupidly varied but top of the pile with many recent book purchases for reference material are Gresley A4, Deltics, Princess Coronation, close behind A1, Princess, Jubilee, 8F, Class 45, BoB/WC, Western, DSB Mz, My and in third ranking, well too many to list, all have reached a plateu of data aquistion and either one could jump forward on the receipt of final deciding information. Truth be told it'll probably come down to a single inspiring image in a book or on the web.
Anyway, enough drivel time to peruse more books over lunch break LOL, but I'll make a decision shortly as I'm concious that all this cojugation and hand wringing is achieving nothing. One final point, what ever it is will be mixed media, Plasticard, Brass, Nickle steel, Resin, and even wood in places, a real hotch potch of how shall we say...not to do it LOL.
lancer1027
Western Thunderer
My personal thought is that i always enjoy seeing locos move, so would stick with the 1/32 and create a shed/depot type of layout rather than hve static locos on shelves
Look forward to some more progress on the 40.
Rob
Look forward to some more progress on the 40.
Rob
mickoo
Western Thunderer
That certainly appeals to the 'play trains' side of the equation, the downside is that everything you do then has to fit in with that era/epoch/scene, you can't just build one A4, you then need to add other locos, not much call for Mzs, TRAXX, 16Es or class 58 at say Camden or Kings X LOL. By opting for the layout path you automatically reduce your field of focus, in its self thats not a bad thing but does tend to limit your scope if your cupboard has a variety of anoraks in there.My personal thought is that i always enjoy seeing locos move, so would stick with the 1/32 and create a shed/depot type of layout rather than hve static locos on shelves
Look forward to some more progress on the 40.
Rob
One could of course opt for as ficticious location, but then that still limits you to geographical boundries.
The large scale static bypasses that issue and allows you to model what ever you like and to stand them side by side, but removes the 'play trains' aspect.
Truth be told I'll probably end up doing a bit of both, but which one first LOL.
mickoo
Western Thunderer
I mentioned above inspirational images, well here is one
http://www.flickr.com/photos/frankinzonda/7964809598/sizes/h/in/pool-1805074@N20/
Not sure why but this shot ticks every box, though I do not care for the HDR it does add grit to the shot, a reduction of 50% in the effect would have been perfect, but none the less a cracking shot IMHO and one which tips the balance toward my Bullied project at the moment!.
I also thought this one rather good as well
http://www.flickr.com/photos/74009/8046534862/sizes/o/in/photostream/
Enjoy
http://www.flickr.com/photos/frankinzonda/7964809598/sizes/h/in/pool-1805074@N20/
Not sure why but this shot ticks every box, though I do not care for the HDR it does add grit to the shot, a reduction of 50% in the effect would have been perfect, but none the less a cracking shot IMHO and one which tips the balance toward my Bullied project at the moment!.
I also thought this one rather good as well
http://www.flickr.com/photos/74009/8046534862/sizes/o/in/photostream/
Enjoy
Phill Dyson
Western Thunderer
You could model some sort of preservation site Mick to have different eras within the same scene or alternatively you could possibly model a scenic area which is not region specific & operate different loco's & stock at different times.......these approaches would of course only probably work with your UK based interests
Cheers Phill
mickoo
Western Thunderer
Phil, that is certainly an option and one I'm considering quite heavily, the only downside is that if you pick a non depot, works or line side industry you then have to have full length trains running, which in the garden (a project in germination LOL) is possible but not inside.
Speaking of running trains, or more rightly 'playing' trains I went to the local Gauge 1 exhibition they staged today at the leisure centre, whilst the roundy roundy was impressive it wasn't as big as it could go, there were some trader stalls and other bric a brac so I wasn't expecting NEC but went with an open mind and basically stood and watched what everyone else was doing and took some photos. Clearly these models are made to run, there is little fidelity about them, but run they do and do have a fascination that is compelling, the mass of live steam brass over the main crossovers is impressive especially the 9Fs and they do give the crossing noses a solid thump as they cross, didn't see any compensation or springing here, all looked to have a rigid chassis construction.
Whilst it certainly had the feel of a local fete it did have its plus points when compared to other Gauge 1 roundy roundys I've been too, the biggest being no barriers what so ever, you could actually get 'really' close to the models, so whilst appearing an amateur approach, it actually worked very well as it allowed people to get in close and more importantly those of the future generations to experience large scale trains close up.
Several salient points became clear, its fun, the average age of the members appears high (expendable cash? eg those with small/no mortgages?), most of the stock was ready made (again expendable cash?) and live steamers are a faffing chore, I see the appeal, but blimey they are bloody hard work, when they run, they run well but often as not they stall or end up running away with themselves. There was one radio controlled battery GWR Prairie and that looked the most fun of all, it was used to shunt stock in and out of the sidings for the live steamers and did sterling work (note to self, live steam is not for me), all the live steamers were hand pushed in and out of the depot serving area, a distraction for me but for the owners did not figure in their 'world' at all.
I spoke at length with a former work colleague who was running a single cylinder LMS 0-6-0 4F, it did not fair well being single cylinder, corners being their Achilles heel in that it generates so much drag that they run short of steam and require some straight lengths to recover, twins do not suffer the same effect.
The other revelation was that if I was going to get something running in the near future I had a few limited choices, buy ready built (expensive), buy a kit (less expensive but costly in time and less choice), scratch build (already on that path), it was the scratch build aspect that threw me, whilst planning many grandiose projects I suddenly realised that even what I considered a constrained approach was way to exuberant to get something running in the near future (less than 12 months say).
Where does this leave me? in a bit of a quandary really LOL, anyway some pictures for those who like that sort of thing.
The servicing area which actually looked like a 1:1 depot
An Aster 9F, quite a few of these here today
A scratch built what looks like a Highland Railway loco
The battery Prairie, Bachmann Brassworks I believe
Gauge 1 Model Co Britannia
Unknown source K2
Finally a 1/4 scale traction engine from a local builder, ironically from the same village I grew up in, not a train but superb engineering, took 5 years to build which given the depth and quality I think is dashed good going!
Enjoy
Addendum, added one final low level shot of the traction engine.
Speaking of running trains, or more rightly 'playing' trains I went to the local Gauge 1 exhibition they staged today at the leisure centre, whilst the roundy roundy was impressive it wasn't as big as it could go, there were some trader stalls and other bric a brac so I wasn't expecting NEC but went with an open mind and basically stood and watched what everyone else was doing and took some photos. Clearly these models are made to run, there is little fidelity about them, but run they do and do have a fascination that is compelling, the mass of live steam brass over the main crossovers is impressive especially the 9Fs and they do give the crossing noses a solid thump as they cross, didn't see any compensation or springing here, all looked to have a rigid chassis construction.
Whilst it certainly had the feel of a local fete it did have its plus points when compared to other Gauge 1 roundy roundys I've been too, the biggest being no barriers what so ever, you could actually get 'really' close to the models, so whilst appearing an amateur approach, it actually worked very well as it allowed people to get in close and more importantly those of the future generations to experience large scale trains close up.
Several salient points became clear, its fun, the average age of the members appears high (expendable cash? eg those with small/no mortgages?), most of the stock was ready made (again expendable cash?) and live steamers are a faffing chore, I see the appeal, but blimey they are bloody hard work, when they run, they run well but often as not they stall or end up running away with themselves. There was one radio controlled battery GWR Prairie and that looked the most fun of all, it was used to shunt stock in and out of the sidings for the live steamers and did sterling work (note to self, live steam is not for me), all the live steamers were hand pushed in and out of the depot serving area, a distraction for me but for the owners did not figure in their 'world' at all.
I spoke at length with a former work colleague who was running a single cylinder LMS 0-6-0 4F, it did not fair well being single cylinder, corners being their Achilles heel in that it generates so much drag that they run short of steam and require some straight lengths to recover, twins do not suffer the same effect.
The other revelation was that if I was going to get something running in the near future I had a few limited choices, buy ready built (expensive), buy a kit (less expensive but costly in time and less choice), scratch build (already on that path), it was the scratch build aspect that threw me, whilst planning many grandiose projects I suddenly realised that even what I considered a constrained approach was way to exuberant to get something running in the near future (less than 12 months say).
Where does this leave me? in a bit of a quandary really LOL, anyway some pictures for those who like that sort of thing.
The servicing area which actually looked like a 1:1 depot
An Aster 9F, quite a few of these here today
A scratch built what looks like a Highland Railway loco
The battery Prairie, Bachmann Brassworks I believe
Gauge 1 Model Co Britannia
Unknown source K2
Finally a 1/4 scale traction engine from a local builder, ironically from the same village I grew up in, not a train but superb engineering, took 5 years to build which given the depth and quality I think is dashed good going!
Enjoy
Addendum, added one final low level shot of the traction engine.