The Bentall Coach (a private coach in the 1890s)
- Thread starter Richard Gawler
- Start date
Richard Gawler
Western Thunderer
It is difficult to obtain consistency throughout the design.
A person going from either saloon to the lavatory uses one hand to open the doors on their way out and the other hand on their return, this seems to work. But a person leaving the third class compartment to exit via the lavatory side needs to use their left hand to open the sliding door then their right (as is the convention) to open the outer door; and swap hands again when they return, not so good for someone who might be carrying something.
Everyone was right-handed at the time, so the desk has the daylight over the user's left shoulder. If the coach is built as a mirror image reflected from top to bottom on the drawing, the third class passenger gets an easier exit and entry but the person with the desk is working in their own light.
The arrangement of lamps on the roof is going to look a bit odd, but if I can build a model with an interior then this will all explain itself to a viewer. A brake composite with lavatory is always going to be tight in a 31ft body but the order for the kit is in the post today
A person going from either saloon to the lavatory uses one hand to open the doors on their way out and the other hand on their return, this seems to work. But a person leaving the third class compartment to exit via the lavatory side needs to use their left hand to open the sliding door then their right (as is the convention) to open the outer door; and swap hands again when they return, not so good for someone who might be carrying something.
Everyone was right-handed at the time, so the desk has the daylight over the user's left shoulder. If the coach is built as a mirror image reflected from top to bottom on the drawing, the third class passenger gets an easier exit and entry but the person with the desk is working in their own light.
The arrangement of lamps on the roof is going to look a bit odd, but if I can build a model with an interior then this will all explain itself to a viewer. A brake composite with lavatory is always going to be tight in a 31ft body but the order for the kit is in the post today
Richard Gawler
Western Thunderer
Richard Gawler
Western Thunderer
I am happier with the most recent sketch than all of its predecessors but it doesn't feel right. The dog-leg partition in the guard's compartment looks like it hasn't been thought through. If I know what equipment is to be carried here, perhaps the design will look better.
I imagine, the guard needs places to store
- flags
- a lamp
- a ledger
- track circuiting clips
Maybe some wrecking equipment e.g. a ladder?
I have added a pedestal table for the ledger. Please, does this look sensible?
Edit - sketch added (note to self: WT rejects images with an apostrophe in the file name
).
I imagine, the guard needs places to store
- flags
- a lamp
- a ledger
Maybe some wrecking equipment e.g. a ladder?
I have added a pedestal table for the ledger. Please, does this look sensible?
Edit - sketch added (note to self: WT rejects images with an apostrophe in the file name
).
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David Waite
Western Thunderer
Hi Richard
Would there be a need for that single external door in the luggage compartment? There are already two sets of double doors, I doubt If they would have spent money if they needn’t have back then and the servants have their own external door.
David.
Would there be a need for that single external door in the luggage compartment? There are already two sets of double doors, I doubt If they would have spent money if they needn’t have back then and the servants have their own external door.
David.
Richard Gawler
Western Thunderer
I have never worked in a brake compartment. Most of this is deduction, plus vague memories of travelling in Mk1 stock in the 1970s:
- A cupboard to hold the box of detonators, this can be below the pedestal desk
- A ladder, to reach the first step on the end of the body and thus get access to maintain the oil lamps, or to assist emergency evacuation
- A shunter's pole and a brake stick, because this coach would work in mixed trains, and so I need some full-height storage space for these
The space for a bicycle is disappearing but it was a good idea at the time
Richard Gawler
Western Thunderer
Well, I envisage the coach to have been built as a conversion, and so I have the two sealed-up doors at the far end of the saloon.
It will be easier for me to seal up a door than the remove it from the etched side, so the decision is whether to keep this single external door as a working door or to seal it up. My gut feeling is to keep it, in case the access through the luggage compartment became blocked during loading or by an oversize or even fallen object.
I would seal up this single door if I could see a benefit, but even if I shift the opening for the lavatory door opening upwards towards the servants' compartment, the resulting corner inside the sealed-up door is too small to put anything useful. I do think, the servants would have used the nearby double door in the luggage compartment for convenience.
Does this sound okay?
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David Waite
Western Thunderer
Hi Richard
Yes it sounds fine to me as you said it’s a conversion so anything goes.
I was also thinking about luggage being a hindrance to the people riding in the saloon as they cross this area to gain access the WC especially if the luggage room became full, so putting the WC next to the Saloon would make the WC more user friendly to them the servants quarters could be opposite against the saloon wall and the luggage compartment moved next to the guards wall but that changes things dramatically.
If your gut feeling is to keep the door with the plan you have then enjoy your choice and do it, whatever you choose I look forward to seeing it .
David.
Richard Gawler
Western Thunderer
Hi Richard
I would suggest a connecting door at the top right of the saloon into the luggage space and then the lavatory accessed from there rather than from the saloon.
Also - would these parts provide your interior?
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Regards.
Well . . . earlier this week (when I had a design I liked), I wrote to the vendor on eBay and asked if they could provide a reduced set of chairs.
This is the result, these arrived today. The prints have very smooth surfaces with a slightly oily or sticky feel to them. Perhaps a wash in the ultreasonic bath would help. Excellent detail and neat sharp edges. I bought a spare desk chair in case I want to substitute one of the armchairs. The bench is 35 mm long, seems spot on and just about perfect for a compartment 7ft 6in wide.
I have never worked in a brake compartment. Most of this is deduction, plus vague memories of travelling in Mk1 stock in the 1970s:
- A cupboard to hold the box of detonators, this can be below the pedestal desk
- A ladder, to reach the first step on the end of the body and thus get access to maintain the oil lamps, or to assist emergency evacuation
- A shunter's pole and a brake stick, because this coach would work in mixed trains, and so I need some full-height storage space for these
The space for a bicycle is disappearing but it was a good idea at the time
Guards compartment would also contain a spare screw link coupling, usually painted red and hanging on a dedicated hook on the wall, to replace any broken coupling on the train. A first aid kit was also usually carried, large wooden box screwed to the wall with writing and/or a variety of symbols such as a red cross, St. Johns Ambulance etc. NER started carrying them from 1894
Very much enjoying watching the evolution of this carriage, best regards from Stockholm
Richard Gawler
Western Thunderer
The stickiness of the surfaces seemed to diminish overnight, but perhaps it wasn't as bad as I want to remember it.
I have now washed the chairs in IPA. I took a 35mm film canister, this was large enough to hold the bench seat or three of the chairs. Filled most of the way up with neat IPA and topped up with mineral water so about 80 or 90% alcohol. Added the lid and placed this in water in the ultrasonic bath for 3 to 5 minutes. Then dried with compressed air. I'm not sure if this has made much difference, perhaps they need longer.
This method is a variation of the advice from the supplier of the ultrasonic bath. The advice was to take a thin glass beaker, the type used for science experiments. Put the chosen solvent into this and surround it with water to just below the lip. This reduces the amount of solvent needed. I think, doing this with IPA will cause too much loss by evaporation. The wall of the vessel needs to be fairly thin to let the ultrasound pass through.
Marion is doing her sewing. She can sit on the large armchair too but is slightly too broad(!) to fit the office type chair. This is because her clothing is solid 3DP and won't squash down. When we travelled in the First Class in a GA Flirt her feet wouldn't touch the floor there so the "scale" of these models seems to be just right
The screw coupling fell off a Dapol RTR loco the first time it tried to pull a train but looks suitably "scale" for the guard's compartment.
I have now washed the chairs in IPA. I took a 35mm film canister, this was large enough to hold the bench seat or three of the chairs. Filled most of the way up with neat IPA and topped up with mineral water so about 80 or 90% alcohol. Added the lid and placed this in water in the ultrasonic bath for 3 to 5 minutes. Then dried with compressed air. I'm not sure if this has made much difference, perhaps they need longer.
This method is a variation of the advice from the supplier of the ultrasonic bath. The advice was to take a thin glass beaker, the type used for science experiments. Put the chosen solvent into this and surround it with water to just below the lip. This reduces the amount of solvent needed. I think, doing this with IPA will cause too much loss by evaporation. The wall of the vessel needs to be fairly thin to let the ultrasound pass through.
Marion is doing her sewing. She can sit on the large armchair too but is slightly too broad(!) to fit the office type chair. This is because her clothing is solid 3DP and won't squash down. When we travelled in the First Class in a GA Flirt her feet wouldn't touch the floor there so the "scale" of these models seems to be just right
The screw coupling fell off a Dapol RTR loco the first time it tried to pull a train but looks suitably "scale" for the guard's compartment.
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Richard Gawler
Western Thunderer
Please, would the first aid box resemble a small cupboard? I'm thinking of something around 18 inches wide, 12 inches high and with a pair of doors hinged left and right. I could probably manage a red cross in 7mm scale but not any wording.
They seem to come in all shapes and sizes, from the to, top LNER, BR Standard and Derwent Valley Railway. Your size estimate seems right. Ones I remember are wall mounted with the front folding down to form a shelf, but have a handle on top and can be unhooked to carry to the scene of the accident.
G!
Richard Gawler
Western Thunderer
Grubbier than I expected because I dipped the brush for the Plastic Weld into the bottle of flux a few times before I realised what I was doing.
Some paint will make this a lot better.
Marion tries out the third class seating. This is from Slater's "GWR and MR" seat mouldings. I have trimmed down the back panel (at the bottom) to reduce the height of the cushion by 2mm yet the feet are still clear of the floor. I think, the 3D print by Modelu is pretty much to scale but the subject was sitting on a lower stool for the scan.
This project is gently slipping from being a drawing excercise into model making. It is like a dolls house but in a model railway setting; the outer structure is not a strict prototype, but the interior is getting a fair amount of attention. I can see, I can try to make the internal partitions a scale thickness (c.1.8 mm in 7 mm scale), but if I run out of space I can fudge things by using some unsupported 0.45mm sheet brass and the result will still please me.
I wonder if a guard's compartment carried sawdust in Victorian days? A BR Mk1 coach did, I am not sure why but sawdust is absorbent and has a scent, so it is useful for cleaning up body fluids.
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Richard Gawler
Western Thunderer
The reference to sawdust is in Keith Parkin's book on Mk1 coaches. I am thinking more of the results of travel sickness than "Murder on the Langford Express".
Richard Gawler
Western Thunderer
I am still pondering the arrangement of the third class compartment. The benches scale at 3ft 6in long, and 21 inches per person is a fair amount of space; much the same as we had 2+2 in BR mainline coaching stock. There is a good amount of daylight in here (last drawing) too. This compartment is going to be a bit of a squash with four occupants, but realistically I imagine it carried two during its usual service.
There is an early railway horse box at the Middy. The compartment for the groom is single-sided, with one full-width bench seat opposite a solid partition. This sort of arrangement is difficult to fit into the private coach with the chosen etched sides, it leaves no space for the lavatory compartment. It would feel quite claustrophobic too.
Incidentally, modern animal warefare rules mean the horsebox cannot be used for a horse, but the passenger compartment is still permitted for people.
There is an early railway horse box at the Middy. The compartment for the groom is single-sided, with one full-width bench seat opposite a solid partition. This sort of arrangement is difficult to fit into the private coach with the chosen etched sides, it leaves no space for the lavatory compartment. It would feel quite claustrophobic too.
Incidentally, modern animal warefare rules mean the horsebox cannot be used for a horse, but the passenger compartment is still permitted for people.