Prototype Tim Mills' Photos

[oldravendale]

Your message about the signal finial is helpful, Simon @simond , then confirmed by Jim @JimG so thanks to you both. Then Martin @40057 suggesting a location and Ian @Ian@StEnochs confirming. Perfect!

Then Arun @Arun Sharma - I appreciate your suggestion but as I understand it Gleneagles station is located on the main line between Aberdeen and Glasgow so the loco and train are probably on the three hour expresses which they operated so successfully between 1962 and 1966. I felt that photo could be improved so here it is with some subtle changes.


The first photo, img408 was taken on the same day and of the same loco as img302 post #5600 so I’m repeating the earlier comments: Rebuilt Battle of Britain 34056 Croydon at Waterloo but regrettably I have no date. However, looking at allocations after December 1960 when it was rebuilt it was at Exmouth Junction (where it had been since December 1954 in original condition), moving to Salisbury in November 1963 where it was withdrawn in May 1967. There's no shed plate, though, which puts the photo towards the end of steam on the Southern and I'll guess that the photo is dated at some time between 1963 and 1967. It then went to Cashmore’s, Newport and was broken up during September the same year. The SLS noted it in store at Salisbury in August 1967. (BR Database).

In the second photo note the chalked inscription "Margate" and the second and third photos are on a different date but of the same locomotive. The third photo is notable because the loco is carrying lamps rather than discs.







Southall Shed in 1965 with an unidentified Grange and Hall in the foreground.



Southall and an unidentified 2884 2-8-0 Class loco in 1965. Note the DMU very prominent on the left of the photo.



Brian

 

[daifly]

Under magnification on a big screen. I fancy that the 2884 class is 3863.

Comparison with other photos in my collection (painted hinges and boss again!) suggests that the Grange may be 6849 Walton Grange - an Oxford engine during 1965.

Dave

 

[oldravendale]

Thank you Dave @daifly . Your suggestion of 6849 for the Grange seems quite likely in view of the relatively local allocation. I'm a bit more doubtful about 3863, though. I had it on a high magnification and really couldn't make much sense of the number. 3863 was a Bristol Barrow Road loco in 1964 until withdrawal towards the end of 1965 so one has to question whether it could have made it all the way to London, although stranger things have been recorded in these dying years of steam.

Class A1 4-6-2 60124 Kenilworth at Darlington in March 1965. In the third picture (img638) Class J94 68011 of Darlington Shed is in the background. The A1 was allocated to Darlington from York on 2nd November 1964 and withdrawn from there on 27th March 1966. It was sold for scrap to A Draper, Hull, in May 1966. (BR Database).









This photo clearly shows a GWR 4-6-0, possibly a Castle at an unknown location and on an unknown date. The slide mount carries a description of “Darlington” but I’m pretty certain that’s incorrect.



Yet again 7029 Clun Castle probably in Old Oak Common shed at an unknown date. Details have been published many times previously and I’ll not repeat them here.



Brian

 

[Dog Star]

3863 was a Bristol Barrow Road loco in 1964 until withdrawal towards the end of 1965 so one has to question whether it could have made it all the way to London, although stranger things have been recorded in these dying years of steam.

No question about Bristol to Acton in a single day for one of the finest freight locos. And probably back before tea-time after cleaning the grate.

Ok, Riddles 9F might be better....

Rgds, Graham

 

[Yorkshire Dave]

Original West Country 34023 Blackmore Vale at West Weybridge in July 1965. It was allocated to Eastleigh in August/September 1964 and from there went to Nine Elms (where I saw it on 6th July 1967) in April/May 1967 and was withdrawn on the last day of Southern steam, 9th July 1967. (SLS). It then went straight in to preservation – see: 34023 Blackmoor Vale/Blackmore Vale (SR 21C123 and BR 34023)

The actual location is Byfleet Junction.

I felt that photo could be improved so here it is with some subtle changes.

Ah, so the colour photographs have been cropped from the 35mm format rather than be 120 square format slides. Personally I would prefer to see the original 35mm format rather than be cropped around the subject to make them artistically balanced and framed which hides additional features and detail.

In the second photo note the chalked inscription "Margate" and the second and third photos are on a different date but of the same locomotive.

It would be interesting to know whether this a horizontal or vertical slide as there is a V200 Warship on the left. A horizontal slide may reveal more of this.

 

[oldravendale]

Thank you Graham @Dog Star . I'll consider my wrist slapped.

Dave @Yorkshire Dave . For the purposes of clarification... (and thanks for pointing out the actual location of the photo of Blackmore Vale)... The photo of the A4 at Gleneagles is originally 2 1/4" square as shown on post #5695. When I looked at the scan I felt it was rather too dark, hence the later version which I also cropped as the original full negative scan was already available. The photos of 34056 and all the others on the page are full format 2 1/4" square.

At the time of these photos Tim was transitioning to 35mm so some photos (eg those of the S15s at Feltham) are on 35mm and some are 2 1/4 sq. His later output was all 35mm.

 

[Arun Sharma]

Egan & Scotney's book on Drapers of Hull gives the cutting up date of 60124 Kenilworth as 08 Aug 1966

 

[daifly]

I'm a bit more doubtful about 3863, though. I had it on a high magnification and really couldn't make much sense of the number. 3863 was a Bristol Barrow Road loco in 1964 until withdrawal towards the end of 1965 so one has to question whether it could have made it all the way to London, although stranger things have been recorded in these dying years of steam.

Further to @Dog Star's comments, Bristol St Philips Marsh shed had closed by this date. Bristol Bath Road shed was only ever a shed for passenger locos in my spotting days and would, in any case, be virtually all-diesel by 1965. Barrow Road would be the nearest shed for a Bristol-based freight loco.
Dave

 

[Osgood]

No question about Bristol to Acton in a single day for one of the finest freight locos. And probably back before tea-time after cleaning the grate.

Ok, Riddles 9F might be better....

Rgds, Graham

To my eye the side profile of the 28XX cab endowed it with much more elegance - although I very much doubt any of the footplate crew would share my enthusiasm and preference!

 

[Martin Shaw]

I'm certain #416 isn't Darlington The canopy structure is redolescent of the GW of I think the inter war period and it's on a curve so Paddington seems an obvious choice. There can't have been many polished chimney caps by 1965 so likely Clun Castle.
Martin

 

[daifly]

I'm certain #416 isn't Darlington The canopy structure is redolescent of the GW of I think the inter war period and it's on a curve so Paddington seems an obvious choice. There can't have been many polished chimney caps by 1965 so likely Clun Castle.
Martin

Agreed, but of more concern is the headless one-legged man in the centre of the photo!

Dave

 

[Dan Randall]

Agreed, but of more concern is the headless one-legged man in the centre of the photo!

Dave

As well as the missing head, his left shoulder is missing too! (Perhaps they’re at home, in his bathroom cabinet?…).

There’s some other weird stuff going on with some of the others in the picture, so I’m thinking a slow shutter speed was utilised, perhaps due to the gloom under the canopy?


Regards

Dan

 

[Martin Shaw]

slow shutter speed

You can just see the shadow of his other leg on his RH side.

 

[simond]

Hello, hello, hello, you look ‘armless enough, hop aboard….

 

[Dog Star]

Brian @oldravendale,

I like Martin's suggestion of the departure end of PDN. If this is PDN then probably the loco is at platform 10.and we ought to see the goods shed wall behind the tender. Can you play with the lighting and/or colour to see if you can pull anything from the glare?

The peeps all look to be dressed against the weather... Is this evening peak in autumn?

Anyone any ideas about a "special" working in say September 1965 taking the New Line towards Birmingham

Rgds, Graham

 

[Dog Star]

There can't have been many polished chimney caps by 1965 so likely Clun Castle

In Brian's last post, a photo of Clun appears after the photo of the un-identified engine. The first photo of Clun, in what could be OOC, shows that Clun has a double chimney... I am not sure that the mystery photo shows a double chimney.

Rgds, Graham

 

[oldravendale]

Well, before I start on the next pictures the comments about the possible Castle at the possible Paddington piqued my interest. Certainly the "no- head-one-legged-man" is in the original slide. There's also (nearly) a one legged woman too, and the evidence points, as was suggested, to a very slow shutter speed. Here's a jpeg version of the original un-photoshopped tiff scan.



And following Graham's @Dog Star 's suggestion I've increased the density of the original tiff scan which, I suspect, proves conclusively that this is Paddington. I agree that it's difficult to decide whether the Castle is single or double chimney but I think the location question is answered.



Thanks to all who contributed.

Arun @Arun Sharma - Thanks for the info about 60124.

Dave @daifly and Tony @Osgood - I appreciate the extra detail as it applies, or may apply, o the photo of the GWR 2-8-0.

I'll be back soon.

Brian

 

[Dave Holt]

In my view, that is almost definately a double chimney. There's a slight flare to it which isn't present on the single chimney.
Dave.

 

[Yorkshire Dave]

And following Graham's @Dog Star 's suggestion I've increased the density of the original tiff scan which, I suspect, proves conclusively that this is Paddington. I agree that it's difficult to decide whether the Castle is single or double chimney but I think the location question is answered.

Definitely Paddington as it is Bishops Bridge Road road bridge in the background.

It cannot be Darlington as originally mooted as Darlington has a three span overall roof for 2/3 of the platform length with no awnings. Although this is a modern photo, Darlington Station is grade II* listed. Darlington railway station from the air

 

[Dog Star]

I'm certain #416 isn't Darlington....

Just to say, Clun passed through Darlington on 9th and 10th September 1967 - info from 6-Bells.

Rgds, Graham