Prototype Tim Mills' Photos
- Thread starter oldravendale
- Start date
simond
Western Thunderer
mickoo
Western Thunderer
Not true young padwan
, I understood the first 10 (looks like first 11 from photos I've got but not checked all the books yet) did not come with roller blinds and photographic evidence seems to corroborate this, all copyright by respective owners.*Addendum, information details the first 13 did not have head code boxes when delivered, D800-D812 inclusive.
Don't be fooled by the WR head code panel possibly covering up what could be a roller blind, the other sure signs are the extra lamp (I believe that's what it is) below the centre lamp iron and of course the fold up head code indicators.
D810 is on the right, the give away is the single door and the extra lamp housing.
I do like Warships, I suppose I should make a conservative effort to get one of Mr Phipps masterpieces or at least build this Heljan one I bagged as a pile of factory bits at Telford once.
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mickoo
Western Thunderer
Or dunnage packed up nice and square, knowing the GWR they probably had set packs to a given height then added beams as required to pack accordingly.
simond
Western Thunderer
Is it possible that there is some distortion in the photo? I can imagine the front footplate being askew following a bit of dodgy parking, but the frames & cylinders are not going to move.
Would the front of the fhe raised footplate over the cylinders get kicked up when the front deck goes nose-down?
and is there a similar kink in the handrail just abaft the first knob?
Would the front of the fhe raised footplate over the cylinders get kicked up when the front deck goes nose-down?
and is there a similar kink in the handrail just abaft the first knob?
Yorkshire Dave
Western Thunderer
To me it looks like a result of some heavy handed shunting. It as also apparent the running plate at the cab end has a slight downard curvature possibly due to the weight.
I thought there was some distortion in this 1920s negative of my grandfather's at Leeds but I did make sure the negative was flat whilst scanning it.
I've just looked at the running plate again and it appears bent however the tank top remains straight. The loco buffers have a downward lean and the steps slightly but the carriage buffers on the left remain relatively level. I'll have to hunt out the negative for a closer inspection.
I thought there was some distortion in this 1920s negative of my grandfather's at Leeds but I did make sure the negative was flat whilst scanning it.
I've just looked at the running plate again and it appears bent however the tank top remains straight. The loco buffers have a downward lean and the steps slightly but the carriage buffers on the left remain relatively level. I'll have to hunt out the negative for a closer inspection.
SimonT
Western Thunderer
Simon.
a quick search of the books brings this shot of a Hall that has taken a heavy front knock. I would need more time to find a damaged Grange and Daifly will be along a lot quicker
.
On this one there is just a curl down at the corner but I have seen others that resemble the Grange. The front end of the tender locomotives were quite light weight compared with the back end which was more brick outhouse. The smokebox to front drop plate struts were meant to have made the front end more solid. Eventually Hawkwsorth did away with the Chuchward front end and built continuous frames on the 'rebuilt' or 'modified' Halls and the Counties.
As for the Grange, it is very full of steam, even the snifting valves seem to be leaking.
Simon
a quick search of the books brings this shot of a Hall that has taken a heavy front knock. I would need more time to find a damaged Grange and Daifly will be along a lot quicker
. On this one there is just a curl down at the corner but I have seen others that resemble the Grange. The front end of the tender locomotives were quite light weight compared with the back end which was more brick outhouse. The smokebox to front drop plate struts were meant to have made the front end more solid. Eventually Hawkwsorth did away with the Chuchward front end and built continuous frames on the 'rebuilt' or 'modified' Halls and the Counties.
As for the Grange, it is very full of steam, even the snifting valves seem to be leaking.
Simon
simond
Western Thunderer
Thanks Simon,
the damaged drop front was, as you say well-known. It’s subtle but the front corner of the upper footplate of the Hall also appears to have bent up a bit - the shadow on the cylinder wrapper looks somewhat wedge-shaped.
I think my search for realism in my models will not extend thus far…
cheers
Simon
the damaged drop front was, as you say well-known. It’s subtle but the front corner of the upper footplate of the Hall also appears to have bent up a bit - the shadow on the cylinder wrapper looks somewhat wedge-shaped.
I think my search for realism in my models will not extend thus far…
cheers
Simon
oldravendale
Western Thunderer
Well, that's created a small flurry of excitement. Thanks, Dave, for confirming that the Manor is, in fact, a Grange. A Grange is actually more likely than a Manor at Old Oak and I appreciate your efforts to identify it too. As for the Warship, Adam, I've learned a bit more detail from yours and subsequent comments.
The loco on the breakdown train may well have had a small shunting incident. We'll never know now. As for the train, it looks as though it may be reversing out on to the main line, or perhaps it's returning to Old Oak and the exhaust is being blown by the wind. Until I see some more photos of the breakdown train it's difficult to surmise what might be on the Loriot and until we know whether this was a regular inclusion I'll regard it as a possible.
Moving on, still on the Western. This next one has just slipped in, all isolated and unexpected. It's described as "Caernarvon - Barmouth Line near Caernarvon May 1965". What is beyond doubt is that the loco is Standard Class 3 2-6-2T 82031. The date already looks questionable as this loco was at Patricroft from early April 1965. It was, however, at Machynlleth from the end of January 1960 and then at Bangor from June 1964, so if we push the date back by a year it may fit. The loco was withdrawn from Patricroft in December 1966 and went to Cashmore's, Newport, where it was scrapped during June 1967.
This next batch of photos is of the Oxford University Railway Society/SLS Castle Farewell Tour of 16th May 1964 using 5054, Earl of Ducie which was photographed, according to Tim, at Gloucester but I have to question whether this is actually Gloucester at all. The tour was hauled throughout by 5054 and went from Paddington to Reading via the Didcot avoiding line, Oxford, Kingham, Worcester Shrub Hill and Ledbury to Hereford. From Hereford it went Pontypool Road, Maindee North Junction, Maindee East Junction, Severn Tunnel Junction, Badminton, Swindon, Reading, Paddington, so not Gloucester! Could this be Hereford? In any event the loco was recorded at 93mph down Honeybourne Bank and 94mph past Hullavington.
In May 1964 5054 was a Worcester engine, moving to Gloucester Horton Road in September 1964 from where it was withdrawn towards the end of October 1964. It was scrapped at Swindon in December.
Clearly on the same day and at the same location was Grange 6850, Cleeve Grange, on a mixed freight. At the time it was a Pontypool Road loco, going to Severn Tunnel Junction towards the end of June 1964 from where it was withdrawn in mid-December the same year. It was scrapped at Cashmore's, Newport, in March 1965.
These next photos were in the same set as those above, but whether on the same day and location I can't confirm although it seems quite likely. They are certainly attributed to Gloucester and dated as 1964. First is Large Prairie 4107. It was a Hereford engine in 1964 so the location is looking more like Hereford at every turn! It moved to Severn Tunnel Junction in November the same year before withdrawal at the end of June 1965. It was scrapped at R S Hayes/Birds, Tremains Yard, Bridgend, at the end of October 1965.
The next three are Castle 5055 Earl of Eldon on a van train with no smokebox plate but with all the others seeming to be intact. It's also supposed to be at Gloucester but I now think Hereford more likely. That smokebox plate looks like 86C - Hereford (what a surprise!) In fact 5055 was stored at Fishguard in September 1963 but was reinstated at Hereford in early November the same year. It left for Gloucester Horton Road in July 1964 and was withdrawn at the end of September 1964. It went to Cashmore's, Newport, where it was scrapped in February 1965.
Brian
The loco on the breakdown train may well have had a small shunting incident. We'll never know now. As for the train, it looks as though it may be reversing out on to the main line, or perhaps it's returning to Old Oak and the exhaust is being blown by the wind. Until I see some more photos of the breakdown train it's difficult to surmise what might be on the Loriot and until we know whether this was a regular inclusion I'll regard it as a possible.
Moving on, still on the Western. This next one has just slipped in, all isolated and unexpected. It's described as "Caernarvon - Barmouth Line near Caernarvon May 1965". What is beyond doubt is that the loco is Standard Class 3 2-6-2T 82031. The date already looks questionable as this loco was at Patricroft from early April 1965. It was, however, at Machynlleth from the end of January 1960 and then at Bangor from June 1964, so if we push the date back by a year it may fit. The loco was withdrawn from Patricroft in December 1966 and went to Cashmore's, Newport, where it was scrapped during June 1967.
This next batch of photos is of the Oxford University Railway Society/SLS Castle Farewell Tour of 16th May 1964 using 5054, Earl of Ducie which was photographed, according to Tim, at Gloucester but I have to question whether this is actually Gloucester at all. The tour was hauled throughout by 5054 and went from Paddington to Reading via the Didcot avoiding line, Oxford, Kingham, Worcester Shrub Hill and Ledbury to Hereford. From Hereford it went Pontypool Road, Maindee North Junction, Maindee East Junction, Severn Tunnel Junction, Badminton, Swindon, Reading, Paddington, so not Gloucester! Could this be Hereford? In any event the loco was recorded at 93mph down Honeybourne Bank and 94mph past Hullavington.
In May 1964 5054 was a Worcester engine, moving to Gloucester Horton Road in September 1964 from where it was withdrawn towards the end of October 1964. It was scrapped at Swindon in December.
Clearly on the same day and at the same location was Grange 6850, Cleeve Grange, on a mixed freight. At the time it was a Pontypool Road loco, going to Severn Tunnel Junction towards the end of June 1964 from where it was withdrawn in mid-December the same year. It was scrapped at Cashmore's, Newport, in March 1965.
These next photos were in the same set as those above, but whether on the same day and location I can't confirm although it seems quite likely. They are certainly attributed to Gloucester and dated as 1964. First is Large Prairie 4107. It was a Hereford engine in 1964 so the location is looking more like Hereford at every turn! It moved to Severn Tunnel Junction in November the same year before withdrawal at the end of June 1965. It was scrapped at R S Hayes/Birds, Tremains Yard, Bridgend, at the end of October 1965.
The next three are Castle 5055 Earl of Eldon on a van train with no smokebox plate but with all the others seeming to be intact. It's also supposed to be at Gloucester but I now think Hereford more likely. That smokebox plate looks like 86C - Hereford (what a surprise!) In fact 5055 was stored at Fishguard in September 1963 but was reinstated at Hereford in early November the same year. It left for Gloucester Horton Road in July 1964 and was withdrawn at the end of September 1964. It went to Cashmore's, Newport, where it was scrapped in February 1965.
Brian
Eastsidepilot
Western Thunderer
There'd be a major inquiry today with all those people on the track including kids !
Col.
oldravendale
Western Thunderer
Thanks again, Dave, for positively identifying the location. It's now a certainty and I'll change the descriptions accordingly.
Col - talking of people on the track how about this one at Manchester London Road and the Fifteen Guinea Special.....
This post is a brief intermission. Tim's description of all is Belfast Ulster Transport Museum but these shots are all undated. I suspect that the one of the car was taken in the vicinity.
More railways in the next post.
Brian
Col - talking of people on the track how about this one at Manchester London Road and the Fifteen Guinea Special.....
This post is a brief intermission. Tim's description of all is Belfast Ulster Transport Museum but these shots are all undated. I suspect that the one of the car was taken in the vicinity.
More railways in the next post.
Brian
oldravendale
Western Thunderer
Thank you from Tim and I for the likes on the last post. We think probably poor value compared with other stuff but it's all part of the collection and we are all, after all, interested in transport of all types. However, moving on.
These are half a dozen of a number of photos, all of which will appear here, entitled "Crossing Gates, Elsenham, Cambs, 8 March 1981". I suggest that these are invaluable for us model makers and particularly those modelling the GER. I hope we've established a good enough relationship for those who disagree to say so! There are occasional locos involved, and sometimes some detailed images of stock. You'll make your own decisions about the value .
Brian
These are half a dozen of a number of photos, all of which will appear here, entitled "Crossing Gates, Elsenham, Cambs, 8 March 1981". I suggest that these are invaluable for us model makers and particularly those modelling the GER. I hope we've established a good enough relationship for those who disagree to say so! There are occasional locos involved, and sometimes some detailed images of stock. You'll make your own decisions about the value .
Brian
oldravendale
Western Thunderer
Continuing the Crossing Gates, Elsenham theme here are a few more.
I think the loco in this one can be identified as 37087.
Brian
I think the loco in this one can be identified as 37087.
Brian