V2 4 wheel parcel van1/32 and G3

[michael mott]

Pressing on with the van I drilled the wheels for the bolts.



I decided to just use some .020" wire and snipped them off and flooded them with some black primer.


The brake hangers are fixed to the shoes with some turned .020" pins


Spent a bit of tome today turning up some .020" rivets for the step brackets to replace the wire keepers.



And machined up some fake 1.2mm bolt pins the shaft is .020" to hold the axle-boxes from falling out of the W Irons They look better in real life than the photo for some poor photography reason. I used the pin vice method of filing up a turned pin 3 stokes of a #8 file for each side, I marked the nut of the pin vice with the numbers 1 to 6 because it is such a repetitive task and I forgot that I had already filed one of the sides and made a couple of lop sided nuts that I needed to keep better track rather than counting to 6 for the turns. Just made it easier while I wait for the Hex draw plate to arrive. it goes from 3mm to 1 mm so I am excited about it.



Michael

 

[michael mott]

More fiddling with the brake gear today.
I made the rigid end posts for the clasp arms I didn't want to mess about with multiple parts so turned them up with a flange out of some 3/8th brass rod.



Made a quick holding jig out of some 3/4 x 1/4 evergreen styrene to drill the .020" holes in the buffers for the springs.


Time for a break. Is it just me or do some of you get a stiff neck from concentrating on all the little bits while working with the opti visor in order to see.

Michael

 

[michael mott]

Support braces for the rigid posts and the Vacuum cylinder ans linkage were the tasks today.

The support braces are a bit of conjecture as I could not see them clearly in the photographs.



Next I printed off the linkage for the Vacuum cylinder, and cut them out individually. they were then glued together to clean up with the files. In retrospect it would have been easier to have glued the material together first. Then cut them out as one piece before cleaning up with the files.



The cylinder was turned up out of some 3/4 inch brass rod and some .047" brass rod glued into a protruding notch on the bottom of the cylinder.

The cylinder will be hanging loose I still have to work that out. because it rotates slightly as the linkage rotates.




That's it for today.

Time for tea.

Michael

 

[simond]

presumably the cylinder is mounted on a pair of trunnions (aka “Vee Hangers”) with the pin axis parallel to the cross shaft, though I have no details or info to support this presumption!

 

[Richard Gawler]

Time for a break. Is it just me or do some of you get a stiff neck from concentrating on all the little bits while working with the opti visor in order to see.

Michael

Me too. I went for a sports massage and in the evening decided to assemble some brake gear of my own. Delicate small movements need tightened muscles, and my shoulder told me about this the next day. I don't have an Optivisor yet, but I do need varifocals . . . look after yourself.

 

[Dog Star]

presumably the cylinder is mounted on a pair of trunnions (aka “Vee Hangers”) with the pin axis parallel to the cross shaft, though I have no details or info to support this presumption!

Well, kind of...

Simon, you are correct that the cylinder assembly is supported by trunnions, not so "aka V-hangers".

The key to understanding the movement of the cylinder is to appreciate that the cylinder moves up and down by sliding on the "stationary" piston rod, that rod is (a) suspended from trunnions attached to the longitudinal, middle, girders of the underframe and (b) hollow with an air-tight gland in the top of the cylinder and an air-tight coupling to the vacuum pipe (I suspect that the coupling is not the easiest fitment to maintain).

regards, Graham

 

[michael mott]

Simon,
Graham is correct I should have said pivots slightly rather than rotates the short arc slot appears to be to be for adjusting the linkage and is in a fixed position at the bottom of the vacuum cylinder which rises up when the vacuum is released. the geometry of the fixed arm length causes the cylinder to pivot about the trunnion as Graham pointed out. and that of course causes the other arm that is connected to the crossbar to rotate pulling on the links to the outside lever arms on the shoes. then as they pull toward the centre pivoting about the outer shoe the short clasp link pulls the inside shoe toward the wheel because the other end is fixed.

Nothing like having to build something in order to understand how it all works.

 

[michael mott]

Some times I am my own worst enemy. A cascade of events caused me to take some drastic action this afternoon.

As I was test fitting the clasp link to the first set of shoes that were fitted to the frame I looked at the position of the foot-board hangers and they seemed a bit short I had used the little drawing in the GWR pictorial book to position them. even looking at the photographs of the close up of the clasp linkage it did not register that the foot- board was much lower that the drawing indicated. I decided that I would remove them to make new longer brackets..... well that did not go well And at that point I realized that I needed to do a make over of the undercarriage so this was the result of that decision




This also gave me the opportunity to beef up the shoe hangers and their attachment to the frame.

Three of the new thicker hangers and bolts.



Suppertime... and the livin' is tough sometimes!

Michael

 

[simond]

Well, kind of...

Simon, you are correct that the cylinder assembly is supported by trunnions, not so "aka V-hangers".

The key to understanding the movement of the cylinder is to appreciate that the cylinder moves up and down by sliding on the "stationary" piston rod, that rod is (a) suspended from trunnions attached to the longitudinal, middle, girders of the underframe and (b) hollow with an air-tight gland in the top of the cylinder and an air-tight coupling to the vacuum pipe (I suspect that the coupling is not the easiest fitment to maintain).

regards, Graham

Ah, I had assumed the cylinder rocked and the piston rod moved in & out / up & down. I wonder why the designer decided to move the whole cylinder. Perhaps gravity, the universal return spring, was the easiest way of getting the brakes off? I’m not at home so can’t look in my books, does the cylinder rise to apply the brakes?

 

[Lyndhurstman]

Some times I am my own worst enemy. A cascade of events caused me to take some drastic action this afternoon.

As I was test fitting the clasp link to the first set of shoes that were fitted to the frame I looked at the position of the foot-board hangers and they seemed a bit short I had used the little drawing in the GWR pictorial book to position them. even looking at the photographs of the close up of the clasp linkage it did not register that the foot- board was much lower that the drawing indicated. I decided that I would remove them to make new longer brackets..... well that did not go well And at that point I realized that I needed to do a make over of the undercarriage so this was the result of that decision
View attachment 169539

View attachment 169540

This also gave me the opportunity to beef up the shoe hangers and their attachment to the frame.

Three of the new thicker hangers and bolts.

View attachment 169541

Suppertime... and the livin' is tough sometimes!

Michael

Brave, and exuding commitment to excellence. In my lesser world, I know the feeling (and cost) of getting it all right (or at least dying in the attempt). A rod for one’s own back. Good luck with the rework.

Cheers

Jan

 

[Jon Nazareth]

Pressing on with the van I drilled the wheels for the bolts.

View attachment 169388

I decided to just use some .020" wire and snipped them off and flooded them with some black primer.
View attachment 169390

The brake hangers are fixed to the shoes with some turned .020" pins

View attachment 169387
Spent a bit of tome today turning up some .020" rivets for the step brackets to replace the wire keepers.

View attachment 169385

And machined up some fake 1.2mm bolt pins the shaft is .020" to hold the axle-boxes from falling out of the W Irons They look better in real life than the photo for some poor photography reason. I used the pin vice method of filing up a turned pin 3 stokes of a #8 file for each side, I marked the nut of the pin vice with the numbers 1 to 6 because it is such a repetitive task and I forgot that I had already filed one of the sides and made a couple of lop sided nuts that I needed to keep better track rather than counting to 6 for the turns. Just made it easier while I wait for the Hex draw plate to arrive. it goes from 3mm to 1 mm so I am excited about it.

View attachment 169386

Michael

Michael
How on earth do you turn .020" rivets?
Looking forward to seeing how the draw plate works.

Jon

 

[Pete_S]

Ah, I had assumed the cylinder rocked and the piston rod moved in & out / up & down. I wonder why the designer decided to move the whole cylinder. Perhaps gravity, the universal return spring, was the easiest way of getting the brakes off? I’m not at home so can’t look in my books, does the cylinder rise to apply the brakes?

My guess is that the moving cylinder got round paying royalties on a then-active Patent.

Herewith a PDF re-set from a scan of an original.

Pete S.

 

[michael mott]

How on earth do you turn .020" rivets?
Looking forward to seeing how the draw plate works.

Hi John here is a sequence showing how I do it.

this is some very hard 1/16th brass rod first I turned it down to .038" and rounded the end with a #8 cut flat file and burnished it with a burnishing end of the file (I inherited the file from a watchmaker one end a file and the other a burnishing tool)


next I reduced the diameter to .020" using the same cutting tool. I am sure that there are other ways but tis works pretty consistently for me The old Myford will only run as fast as 640 rpm so I have to be extremely careful.
Parting the rivet off I just hold the rivet between my thumb and index fingers while it is spinning with the same tool till it releases, sounds dangerous and probably is but it works for me and I have done it this way for a while.



It was actually a little undersized at .019" There is likely somebody out there who manufactures this type of part, but I like doing things myself.

My guess is that the moving cylinder got round paying royalties on a then-active Patent.

Herewith a PDF re-set from a scan of an original.

Pete thanks for the PDF, that is interesting, there have no doubt been many changes to inventions to skirt the patent issues over the years.

Michael

 

[Dog Star]

Herewith a PDF re-set from a scan of an original.

Thank you Pete for that pamphlet.

regards, Graham Beare

 

[michael mott]

Replaced all the hangers and made an integral bracket to make mounting them a little less tedious. I will add a small sleeve nut to fix the hangers and shoes in place.






Michael

 

[michael mott]

Rebuilding the undercarriage continues. By redoing things it has given me time to think about a different way of putting parts together.
I am also making the sole bars thicker in order to strengthen the overall assembly. this entailed narrowing the original undercarriage plate, and the easy way was to plane off each side enough to accommodate the new thicker sole-bars. so I needed to make a new longer shooting board. I had some old 3/8th Plexiglas It took over an hour to get the old dried protective covering off. I resoted to using the hot air gun to soften the glue under the paper and then using a bit of the Plexiglas as a scraper sheared off the paper and then used Lacquer thinner to clean off the glue residue.

Sometimes by just warming up the paper covering you can peel it off fairly easily but this stuff was at least 30 years old.

Glued it all together works like a charm.

Bonus from planing the bottom sheet of the undercarriage are these .080" rolls of styrene they look like they would be useful for something so put them in a old pill box. boiler bands or something similar.


I reused the bending jig and set the bolt holes at the same distance apart as the steel pins. and cut some .020" brass into some 5/16th strip so that I could silver solder the curved drop hangers for the springs ans a fixed unit


this allowed me to set up and drill all the holes for the fixing rivets which I had not included the first time round. I made the shank .030" with the head at .038" diameter, just easier to deal with. After spotting all the holes on one side using the hanger assembly I cut them into their individual units. and pinned them to the sole-bar before the sole bars are fixed to the plate.

They are properly lined up, the forced perspective of the Camera is making them look out of alignment.

Time for tea. another hot day today...33C

Michael

 

[Jon Nazareth]

Hi John here is a sequence showing how I do it.

this is some very hard 1/16th brass rod first I turned it down to .038" and rounded the end with a #8 cut flat file and burnished it with a burnishing end of the file (I inherited the file from a watchmaker one end a file and the other a burnishing tool)
View attachment 169583

next I reduced the diameter to .020" using the same cutting tool. I am sure that there are other ways but tis works pretty consistently for me The old Myford will only run as fast as 640 rpm so I have to be extremely careful.
Parting the rivet off I just hold the rivet between my thumb and index fingers while it is spinning with the same tool till it releases, sounds dangerous and probably is but it works for me and I have done it this way for a while.

View attachment 169584

It was actually a little undersized at .019" There is likely somebody out there who manufactures this type of part, but I like doing things myself.
View attachment 169585

View attachment 169586

Pete thanks for the PDF, that is interesting, there have no doubt been many changes to inventions to skirt the patent issues over the years.

Michael

Michael
Thank you for the photos and explanation. I think that the only available rivets this size are from America. I have bought some in the past but one gets caught by postage, import duty, a handling charge and of course, VAT. making them a bit expensive. If only a few are needed then, your way seems quite feasible.

Jon

 

[michael mott]

Michael
Thank you for the photos and explanation. I think that the only available rivets this size are from America. I have bought some in the past but one gets caught by postage, import duty, a handling charge and of course, VAT. making them a bit expensive. If only a few are needed then, your way seems quite feasible.

Jon I have found that working with 1/8th brass rod the free machining type I get it from Metal Supermarket here in Canada The thing I like about the 1/8th is that the machining is faster because of the support using exactly the same type of operation the real key is making sure that the tool is really sharp and honed on the cutting edge. And then set with the tip exactly on centre, this is also where quick change tool holders are wonderful.
With two settings on the cross slide, the first one is set depending on the diameter of the head then round it off with the fine file a few stokes then burnish gives a nice fine finish. The second setting to cut the shank. On the Myford using the Head-stock original Myford collets they become really easy to make. Body memory is also quite powerful when doing these sorts of tasks one gets to gauge a length dimension quite quickly. Any that are off slightly go into the spare pins and pin bolt compartment in the spares tray.

Michael

 

[michael mott]

It cooled down today the last three days have been 32 32 31C Spent all day Saturday making a proper back plate for the C5 collet chuck thinking that I would eliminate the chatter vibration because the first back-plate was made out of a thinned down cast iron Myford spare backplate. it did not eliminate the chatter. so the next culprit was probably the head-stock bearing wear, the lathe is 52 years old after-all.
so the headstock bearings are the babbit type with shims that can be thinned by peeling off a layer, the shim layers are 5 thou and peeling one off was too much and I could lock the spindle when tightening the top back down so added 4 thou back and that seems to have solved the problem.


back to the coach I realized that the original footboard brackets were wrong to begin with so remaking them was a bonus anyway.

All parts ready for silver soldering later today.


Michael

 

[michael mott]

All soldered up, again the third hand came to be useful in holding the parts together for the silver soldering.


I am glad that I took the time to make this third hand as it has proven itself over and over.

The rivet pins turned then all glued up ready for springs to go back on.




Suppertime.

Michael