Western Thunder 9 years after Cynric

[Pencarrow]

The above post from Rob completely illustrates a fear I had when reading this thread. IMO there's a danger that some of the comments made so far could be taken as anti anything not hewn out of brass using complex machine tools.

To my mind Rob's photos show what can be achieved with intelligent use of RTR and RTP material. It's the artistry that lifts it to another level and to me makes the end result totally suitable for showing on WT.

I'm probably not correct here, but I think the intention is that WT content stays away from:

• Wishlisting
• Moaning and arguing over whatever Hornby et al have or haven't produced
• Politics
• Generally unkind comments that end up with entrenched views and keyboard warriors flaming each other

The other impression I got when joining was that this was more of a making forum than one for 'look what new shiny toy I've just bought'.

The problem is that we all have a different view in what constitutes making or modelling.

There are some of what I would call elite modellers on here but I've always liked that there's not been signs of elitism. Their work has been something to aspire to and it's been great that help and advice has been freely given.

There are also though those at the other end of the spectrum, and I count myself in their number, that are more into the artistic side of making. I've had several unsuccessful attempts at loco building which have left me somewhat deflated. But I am at heart a scenic modeller and enjoy making buildings and scenics.

I'm hoping that all we're trying to do is stay away from content that would be a forum equivalent of "Sam's Trains". Just box opening, no modelling, ill informed comments and content designed purely to generate "likes". IMO Rob's work definitely doesn't fit in this box.

I've always considered WT a warm, friendly and welcoming forum but I am wondering whether it's only my Pencarrow thread and not my Polsarrett one that is worthy of future posts.

 

[Rob R]

Morning all,

I'll start the day by posing a question then.

These photos all feature ready to run locos and stock, complete with manufactuers couplings, running on PECO 00 track, ready to plant resin buildings plonked on an IKEA shelf.

Anyone can walk into their local train set emporium and buy all of this from the respective Hornby, Bachmann or PECO sections and put it together.

There are no kits and aside from a loading gauge, some signage and a lamp or two, nothing is scratch built, though the crane uses bits from the scrap bin.

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So does this type of modelling fit in with the ethos of WT ?

Rob

Yes it most certainly does.

It matters not one jot where you are starting from or what you are starting with, whether it be a sheet of virgin Nickle Silver or the contents of a freshly purchased box, it is your aims, aspirations and journey to turn that raw material into something far more than the sum of it's parts that fits exactly into (my interpretation of) the Ethos of WT.

Rob R

 

[Heather Kay]

I don’t think there’s any ulterior motive behind this thread.

The other impression I got when joining was that this was more of a making forum than one for 'look what new shiny toy I've just bought'.

What Chris said still sums up my feelings about WT. I also think it’s healthy that we have these occasional introspective threads. They have always occurred at intervals, and I think it’s good the members can have their say in an open forum about how Western Thunder might evolve. It gives a chance for the admin and mods to sound out our feelings.

I don’t think there’s any credence to the idea that RTR will be banned completely, for example. The various threads that show what can be achieved using relatively unmodified RTR models as part of a larger scene are inspirational, even to someone like me that doesn’t even have a model railway to play with any more.

The Flying Squad (for newer members, that’s the name Cynric used for himself and the admin staff) will listen to what we say, and if necessary will act upon it. This is how it should be, I think.

 

[SimonT]

So does this type of modelling fit in with the ethos of WT ?

IMO there's a danger that some of the comments made so far could be taken as anti anything not hewn out of brass using complex machine tools.

To answer indirectly. I don't see a pecking order of levels of modelling on WT. Thankfully there is a vast range of approaches to what is modelled and how it is modelled. What is obvious is masses of imagination, artistic endeavour, good manners and wit. I feel that the use of the term RTR unintentionally mislead. Perhaps we all delight in seeing something other than factory finishes, train set track and buildings painted by numbers. Looking at the contributions of the cast of WT, there is fat chance of seeing such work. So, thank you.

 

[Pencarrow]

I feel that the use of the term RTR unintentionally mislead. Perhaps we all delight in seeing something other than factory finishes, train set track and buildings painted by numbers.

To my mind you're spot on there Simon.

 

[oldravendale]

Lovely - thank you Brian.
If there is enough interest in Barry views from others and you are willing to put up a selection it could be a half-decent Christmas after all!

Hi Tony.

Yes - I have a significant number of photos at Barry. However I suspect that they are a bit tedious, if you see what I mean. There's only so many shots of locos in Barry yard that are of interest to the wide community. Perhaps their saving grace is that they are in colour - well, most are. I suggest that we kick this off again in the New Year when I'll make a bit more time and we'll do it on PMs if that's OK.

Of course, if there's an overwhelming surge of interest in Barry pictures I'll happily post on WT. Just be careful what you wish for!

Also, re the bigger issues in this thread. I suspect and hope that we are getting to the conclusion that RTR makes good material for WT and encapsulated in Chris, Rob, Heather and Simon's comments. Nowadays RTR can be made to look and run superbly and that should be celebrated, surely. As we see on here quite regularly now (and thank you to the contributors) weathering alone can be a hell of an art form.

Brian

 

[richard carr]

Rob

Of course it fits in here, I love to see you wonderfully weathered models.
Please keep posting, even if no one replies.

Richard

 

[SimonT]

PS

the Bookseller of Bath

That has given me an awful image of him clad in some medeavil tabbard. Almost as bad as going into Da Shoppe to be greeted with him wearing Arkwright's brown warehouse coat.

 

[Dikitriki]

Putting my Flying Squad hat on, I would say unequivocally that modelling such as demonstrated by Sheep Bloke is very much part of the WT ethos. It is making the whole greater than the sum of the parts. I much admire the scenic work and weathering which I think is of the highest order. I don't give two hoots that the starting point is (well-selected) RTR. It is of equal importance to the forum, in my mind, as the superlative work of, say, Tom Mallard or Mickoo, which equally is of the highest order, but in a different direction.

Pencarrow got it right in his comments. What I take from this thread is the re-affirmation that we ALL need to continue to post what we are working on, whatever part of the spectrum we are coming from, for without the contributions, there is no WT. This is a 'doing' forum, and we don't want box openers and plonkers (read into that what you will), but don't be frightened to post. Cynric didn't want a string of 'me too' posts clogging up threads - that's why we have the like button. Those who are at the top of their game might just have to accept that a 'like' is all they are going to get because, well, there's nothing else to say that wouldn't overwhelm the thread.

Richard

 

[Steve Cook]

.... we all delight in seeing something other than factory finishes, train set track and buildings painted by numbers. Looking at the contributions of the cast of WT, there is fat chance of seeing such work. So, thank you.

Spot on Simon

In general, my observation was that t'other Simon was just reiterating that this wasn't the place to discuss RTR offerings, unless it was part of a conversation about the act of improving / modifying / personalising. Taking it out of the box and discussing shortfalls is not the WT thing, taking it out of the box, highlighting the shortfalls and then showing how to overcome those is.

Its a tricky line to balance I think - in general, if you've modified it, its in If you've built it, its in

Steve

PS - Arguably, if its a bit more esoteric than there is more tolerance towards out of the box ramblings - its the whole thing of if 100 other people can post the same images and observations then its unlikely to be WT fodder.

 

[Steve Cook]

.....I'll start the day by posing a question then.

So does this type of modelling fit in with the ethos of WT ?

Completely - because whilst other people can just go out and purchase the same items, none of them could get close to your results without a significant amount of effort - and its the effort part that is applauded here

Keep going please Rob, I'm enjoying your thread - well in actual fact I'm going back and starting towards the beginning of it as I muse something small and shunty inside for winter

 

[Dog Star]

Of course, if there's an overwhelming surge of interest in Barry pictures I'll happily post on WT.

Your photos are circa late 60s/early70s? If so then one has to be approaching retirement age to have been able to see such images for real. To take Tony's request "off-line" (aka PM) deprives younger members of WT from seeing how steam finished... and what was special about Dai's yard.

regards, Graham

 

[oldravendale]

Your photos are circa late 60s/early70s? If so then one has to be approaching retirement age to have been able to see such images for real. To take Tony's request "off-line" (aka PM) deprives younger members of WT from seeing how steam finished... and what was special about Dai's yard.

regards, Graham

Thanks Graham.

OK - they'll fall in to the "Prototype" thread and those who find them of no interest can just pass by. They'll fill the gap created while I sort out Tim's photos. When they start to appear rather depends on the availability of time in the run up to Christmas.

Brian

 

[chigley]

I just enjoy watching other peoples builds and various comments, thinking why doesnt mine look like that.
but thank you WT.
Ken

 

[Dog Star]

Jordan, (@Jordan), any room at the back? I am feeling lost and think that a comfy chair is required. What time is Tea and Tiffin?

WT is for all who wish to engage with other modellers (note, not just railway modellers.. for we have had topics about aviation, barges, cars, lorries, buses - even birds and mammals in the garden) and generally those who engage are pleased to see / comment on how we each approach modelling our personal interests. RTR has its place within WT and especially when being used by such as the Ovine community and by Neil with his model of the north east (OK I was disappointed slightly to discover that the current model has its roots in York when I believed that the inspiration was Derwenthaugh). I hope that anyone who looks in after opening a recent RTR purchase can find inspiration here to consider taking a step along a modelling journey for example:- the thought to add character through weathering. Maybe there is a need to review the Forums page to see how to best represent a RTR-based focus so that the casual reader can find RTR material if that is of interest to the reader.

regards, Graham

 

[Jordan or Plymouth Mad]

Jordan, (@Jordan), any room at the back? I am feeling lost and think that a comfy chair is required. What time is Tea and Tiffin?

Come in, brother, come in. Any time is Tiffin Time.

 

[Roger Pound]

I have just 'found' this thread today and have, in spells, due to household duties intervening, worked my way through it. I am still not to sure what it is all about. However, let me say that having been in other fora, which I no longer support for one reason or another, I joined WT for its easy flow, lack of politics and apparent welcome to modellers of all abilities of the many aspects of the railway hobby in particular.

My own enjoyment is derived from following what is generally known as the 'might-have-been' school and creating a model based on the thought that it could have existed and then tie the fiction in with a fair element of existing fact too. My present venture "Whatborough Yard" is typical of my approach to railway modelling over my lifetime (which is now getting a bit on the long side ) but this style has always maintained my interest in the hobby. I delight in inventing 'back-stories' to fit the actual facts that are to apply, which include not only the area I have chosen upon which to inflict my railway, but also the stock and materials I have to hand in order to pursue the object of effective re-employment and minimising waste.

The minor modification of rtr locos, such as simple respraying, renumbering etc and the effecting of minor repairs are still within my otherwise limited capabilities but otherwise if it was not for RTR material, my model railways would remain what they all started out as - a figment of my imagination. I truly admire those who can build in brass and other metals, do intricate liveries and create accurate miniature reproductions of real places, buildings and the like and frequently look with pleasure at their achievements. WT has provided me with help when I asked, inspiration when mine has flagged and always given pleasure when I browse my favourite sections. I am merely pleased that I am able to publish my little layout forays on WT in the hope that they may inspire or encourage others - even if my efforts are held as examples of 'not what to do' !

Thank all of you for letting me be a very happy WT member.

Roger .
(Rising 85 and still planning the next layout.......!)

 

[John Duffy]

From my experience of WT, I would suggest that the main bodies of discussion here are not about RTR at all but rather about what people have done with items they bought RTR. That is a very significant difference. I really have no interest in what model a manufacturer has just brought out, will bring out or which one they ought to have brought out. I am though interested in what modellers have done with them, using knowledge, skill and imagination. The key element for me is the involvement of the modeller. Some of the best railway modelling I have ever seen has its basis in RTR products. And there are a couple of very fine examples within the threads on this forum.

Just discussing RTR - not a positive step forward for me.
Discussing modelling using RTR as a basis - absolutely. I think WT does a fine job of that already but if there are ways to improve it, fine.

One other point I would make and it is in reference to earlier posts regarding the "Like" button. I can see the advantages of its use but personally, as someone who models alone and has limited access to local groups and clubs, I much prefer the more conversational approach. I agree about the me too posts and yes some threads gets chatty between a few individuals but I would much prefer to have a few words that someone has thought about. I don't want to sound all sad and lonely, I have plenty of other activities, but in terms of railway and model railway conversations I like the interactions that the forum provides. I have found that I now don't post much because the number of likes (as appreciated as they are) doesn't give you the conversational aspect and if that's not there it is almost a case of what's the point. This year, more than ever we have needed to replace actually meeting people at exhibitions etc buts its perhaps become too easy to just click Like and whilst a supportive comment may not at value to the thread it may indeed add value for the original poster.

I have stopped interacting with RMWeb because of the tone that threads tended to end up taking. WT on the other hand has always seemed to be a more comfortable environment. I hope these few pages of thoughts are taken positively and we can quickly and collectively get on with sharing more of the work that has made WT successful.

John

 

[jonte]

But will admin allow a RTR section? I think that’s the crux of the matter.

Jonte

 

[Allen M]

As a quite new member, a few weeks before lock down started I'l add a comment.
First I am now just turned 80 years and started with Hornby O clockwork at about 10. Since then N, OO 3r & 2r, O 2r & 16mm NG live steam and battery, RTR, kits, components and scratch so been round the block. While I do not wish to see toy shop window displays of train sets there is an essential place for RTR, just look a O gauge the last few years. As for help and co-operation I have always found it excellent in our modelling field.
The one indecent that stands out, in the mid 1970s I had 'built' a live steam tram loco from a Mamod stationary engine, Meccano bit and some tinplate for the body which I took to a garden meeting. It did not work very well and was offered help to sort it. Who by? None other than the late Eddie Cooke, one of the masters of live steam (mainly) O gauge locos.
I have found the mix on here very good, some basic for me some beyond me but all interesting, pleasant and fair minded, what more could I ask for?
I have posted a bit and there may well be more to come.

Regards
Allen Morgan