Western Thunder 9 years after Cynric

Steve Cook

Flying Squad
...but will admin allow a RTR section? I think that’s the crux of the matter.

The answer is 'Nope' I'm afraid Jonte.

We don't need a RTR section. In the same way that we don't have a live steam section, or a kit build section, or a weathering section. Sub-division misses the point - its all about the modelling which is the general consensus of this thread.

This place is about the act of doing and model making - we have layout and workbench threads which cover all of those activities irrespective of your starting point.

Steve
 

Jordan

Mid-Western Thunderer
I never look at the sections except when starting a new thread. When I look at WT I always click on ‘Recent Posts’ and read any, usually all, that are highlighted. Which means they have been updated since my last visit.

Ian.
Ditto - or "me too", but maybe I shouldn't really say that!!

I have read this Thread from the start, and thought long & hard about what to say - if anything - apart from in response to Dog Star's plea to sit at The Back of the Class with me!!
My own modelling is very much dependant on R-T-R, even if it's not your common or garden R-T-R available on every UK Box-shifter's website. These days I contribute mainly to the US Dabblings thread on here, and only with fluff & banter much of the time!
But I don't feel there is 'no place' for me on WT, despite not posting much of my own modelling here - I do that mainly Over There* - or despite the fact that WT has changed since earlier times, sometimes in my view not for the better - although in other people's view it was very much for the better!! :rolleyes: :oops:
There are very few written rules for WT. One unwritten rule of WT that was established early on by Cynric (I think!!) was "No Wish-listing". Although aimed at curbing the froth that tends to happen when R-T-R is discussed elsewhere, it also gets applied to not wish-listing for kits, either. There was never a blanket "No R-T-R" rule, written or unwritten. It is true that WT was aimed to start with at scales from 7mm upwards, which at the time restricted what R-T-R could be discussed anyway, but just as it's other intended focus on BR(W) and GWR was quickly broadened to other Regions and even other Countries, so too the focus on scales was broadened, to include the smaller scales.

I just want to add that we should remember that if it wasn't for @Adrian this Forum would no longer even exist, as he stepped up to the mark after Cynric passed. The recent thread Over There* about Advertising & funding reminded me of this fact, since there has never been mention of funding on here, or the metaphorical Begging Bowl passed round - so let's none of us ever take that for granted.

(Can we have some RTR British outline S please?)

PS That wasn't a wishlist........
Sailing close to the wind there mate!! :)
And I have to say "NO, Please!!" Because one thing I don't like to do is modelling in the Mainstream, with loads of models the same as everyone else. Now R-T-R O Scale has really taken off, I'm feeling like I'm too close to the mainstream again, even if much of it is beyond my budget! So I would find it hard to resist changing scale to S, if R-T-R BR Blue diesels were available! But then R-T-R S Scale would become mainstream in turn... :confused: :D

* For newer members, back in the early days of WT, instead of posting "Over on RMweb" (which is where most of us came from/still are) we just started posting "Over There", and knew it means "RMweb". It became one of those accepted 'shorthand' phrases we all understood.
 
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Simon

Flying Squad
Thank you for that timely post Jordan.

A few thoughts:

RTR is clearly and definitely not "banned" in any way, but this is foremost and unashamedly a modelling forum, so pictures of a brand new model out of the box plonked on to plain track is possibly a bit "non WT".

Actually, it is also a railway modelling forum Graham, so whilst anything goes and there are no "rules", if I really want to explore Focke Wulfs in detail then I'll be going somewhere else to do it. This place is fundamentally here for the trains.

As for "pecking orders" - for heavens sake where on earth does anyone get that idea from? There just isn't one.

A thought about the hierarchy and pecking orders.

One of the things that happened to WT after Cynric went was that it was "adopted" quite heavily by Scaleseven modellers, to the extent that one at times felt that it was all a bit of a promotional tool for Scaleseven and exactitude in general. As a result of which, rightly or wrongly, WT sadly lost several highly valued members who had been a core part of the forum hitherto, albeit the whole shebang was still quite young at the time.

So no, there is no "pecking order" or hierarchy, and wearing a hair shirt will just give you nasty rash and is no sort of requirement for participation in WT.

Finally, I'd like to quote Jordan:

I just want to add that we should remember that if it wasn't for @Adrian this Forum would no longer even exist, as he stepped up to the mark after Cynric passed. The recent thread Over There* about Advertising & funding reminded me of this fact, since there has never been mention of funding on here, or the metaphorical Begging Bowl passed round - so let's none of us ever take that for granted.

Adrian both funds WT and carries out all of the technical administration, and in my estimation he has done the best possible job in stewarding WT since Cynric's sad passing.

What we put up on WT is important, for all sorts of reasons as have been demonstrated above, and I stick to my thought that we should, by and large, endeavour to post stuff that will add to the value of the forum.

Simon
 

NHY 581

Western Thunderer
Thank you for that timely post Jordan.

Having spent a day wrestling with steel in the garden, I am to say the least surprised to see how this thread has developed in my absence.

A few thoughts then:

RTR is clearly and definitely not "banned" in any way, but this is foremost and unashamedly a modelling forum, so pictures of a brand new model out of the box plonked on to plain track is possibly a bit "non WT".

Actually, it is also a railway modelling forum Graham, so whilst anything goes and there are no "rules", if I really want to explore Focke Wulfs in detail then I'll be going somewhere else to do it. This place is fundamentally here for the trains.

If one finds a thread that one doesn't entirely understand, does one need to feel threatened by this? No, of course not - there are many threads on WT that make no sense to me whatsoever!

Some of us are being, dare I say it, over sensitive. Nobody is being told to go away, nobody is being told they are unwelcome, all that is being discussed is what we put up on to Western Thunder. That is all.

I struggle to see anything that I have written above that goes against this. I guess you could interpret what has been written in a certain way and get upset about it if you really wanted to. But why would you need to do that?

I understood what Larry meant in his deleted post, I thought he was making a very good point, and at his own expense to boot. Nothing to get upset about there.

As for "pecking orders" - for heavens sake where on earth does anyone get that idea from? There just isn't one.

Personally I quite like the odd thread about where we are and where are we going, and in all conscience I can not see anything in the preceding four pages that ought to upset anyone.

If you find it upsetting, well don't read it. If you find WT not to your liking, then post something you like and change it in that way. But please try not to threaten to leave because you have been somehow discouraged or offended, because the chorus of "please stay mate"s is even more tedious than reading wish lists.

If that offends you, then just put it down to me being an irrascible old sod and move on OK?

A final thought about the hierarchy/pecking order nonsense.

One of the things that happened to WT after Cynric went was that it was "adopted" quite heavily by Scaleseven modellers, to the extent that one at times felt that it was all a bit of a promotional tool for Scaleseven and exactitude in general. As a result of which, rightly or wrongly, WT sadly lost several highly valued members who had been a core part of the forum hitherto, albeit the whole shebang was still quite young at the time.

So no, there is no "pecking order" or hierarchy, and wearing a hair shirt will just give you nasty rash and is no sort of requirement for participation in WT.

Finally, I'd like to quote Jordan:



Adrian both funds WT and carries out all of the technical administration, and in my estimation he has done the best possible job in stewarding WT since Cynric's sad passing.

What we put up on WT is important, for all sorts of reasons as have been demonstrated above, and I stick to my thought that we should, by and large, endeavour to post stuff that will add to the value of the forum.

Simon

Tidy.

I'll get back to my trainset then.

20201212_190817-02.jpeg-01.jpeg

Rob
 

djparkins

Western Thunderer
Phew! As a possibly soon to be extinct low life kit manufacturer, but with a few last gasps left hopefully, I’ll add my two cents worth.

It might be worth remembering that way back at the very beginning, this forum was born out of the demise of the original MIGO (modern image gauge 0) forum. But things change. There never would have been enough interest in the post steam era - which is not modern anyway - to sustain such a forum, and so it did evolve under Cynric’s guidance.

With the advent of more RTR in 7mm the forum has again changed. Initially it was 7mm only too. And that has changed. So - what’s the big deal?

I’m a kit manufacturer, but one of the threads that gives me the greatest pleasure on here is Geoff’s GWR branch line thread. Mostly RTR in terms of locos and stock, and GWR - neither are great interests of mine - but his layout takes you right ‘there’, and in my book that is a tremendous achievement.

And the what’s on your workbench thread too. Let’s see some aircraft on it if that is what is on your workbench. We learn from other branches of the hobby. We have very much to learn from military modellers in the fields of painting and weathering.

More than anything though it is a hobby for pity’s sake! We are supposed to be adults.

We are not carrying the burden of saving either individual lives or the planet itself. We are simply meant to be pursuing a hobby that gives us pleasure. And if you gain pleasure from posting your work on this forum then just take pleasure in that - feedback or not. Why must it be any more complex than this? The forum has, as l have said above, changed beyond recognition. It has its own life now and will continue to change.

We must all stand by the decisions we take in life. You could say I’m a fool (no hang on - don’t!) investing in a large range of kits with the ABS stuff, as well as my own home grown ranges, at a time when kit building is in decline. I feel though that I’ve got enough interesting ideas on how to make them more relevant to the present for the effort to be successful, both creatively and financially. Only time will tell if I’m right.

And if I’m wrong l won’t whinge about it - I’ll just spend more time watching the red kites, herons, badgers and reptiles on my land and carry on creating my wild flower meadow!

DJP/MMP
 

Simon

Flying Squad
I am re-opening this thread up again for anyone to contribute their thoughts to.

I have re-worked and re-worded my initial post to try and lose any ambiguity, and many posts have been taken out or edited, including my own.

If one of your posts has gone or been edited then please do not take it that there was anything "wrong" with it, rather I have tried to take out the negativity and worry that my original post seemed to have created whilst keeping the narrative logical.

So, there are no "right answers", no "rules" nobody is expected to participate but everyone is welcome, a bit like WT then.

If you have any issues regarding this then please pm me rather than putting them up on the thread.

And to those of us who like things to be black or white - there will be any number of shades of grey coming up, probably...

Or the thread may sink into the depths, which is fine too.

And in the meantime seasons greetings to all.

Simon
 

Martin Shaw

Western Thunderer
Simon
It must be quiet in Bath this morning and I'm not certain quite what you intend to achieve by reopening this thread. Despite your assertion that removed posts weren't "wrong" they must have contravened some uwritten rule to require removal. Or is it that negative comment is not conforming to the party line on this matter. Nor can you ask for thoughts, but only the ones you want. I was not alone in my thinking and your expunging of my view is grossly disappointing.

I was and still am of the opinion that RTR matters on WT occupied no more or less than they deserved, they exist and are by far the largest proportion of railway modelling across the world is at that level. The strangled manipulation regularly observed here is, even in model railway terms, relatively uninteresting to most people. There is a danger of pretending this is important.
Martin
 

Rob Pulham

Western Thunderer
You asked for thoughts Simon,

I have no idea what you were hoping to achieve with this but I would like to suggest that threads like this, which seem to rear their heads periodically, do far more harm than good.

Despite best endeavours by individuals to keep things civil and to not point fingers, there are always some who feel aggrieved by elements raised in such threads and as a result we lose good members, whose contributions are missed.

I sincerely hope that as a result of this one, we don't lose anymore.
 

Neil

Western Thunderer
I'll stick my neck out and say that threads like this do serve to remind us where the core values of the forum lie, which I think is a good thing.

Also I have a thought on intemperate and tetchy posts. We all have bad days when other stuff predisposes us to ill temper. Sometimes this shows through in what we say here. I suppose it behoves those of us better disposed to show tolerance and to try and steer things back in a more fruitful direction. I don't always mange this myself, sometimes my bad mood shows through. I'm grateful that this doesn't sour relationships because others have recognised that grumpiness is not my usual state.
 

jonte

Western Thunderer
Having been the main protagonist of setting the cat amongst the pigeons here - wasn’t my intention but at least I was honest - on reflection, I should have known that I would probably be running the gauntlet by doing so, and therefore should have perhaps just kept my thoughts private. But it’s all water under the bridge, now.

There is merit IMHO to those thinking this should be consigned to history, however, I think it noble and well intended of Simon and admin not to seek the obvious route preferred by other fora out there, and automatically lock anything deemed too hard to handle. Indeed, it is this generous gesture and good nature that reflects the goodwill of the forum in general and serves to remind me why I enjoy it here.

I agree too that negative comments - especially rude ones made by myself in the heat of the moment should indeed removed as they are of no value to the thread and do nothing promote or enhance the reputation of a forum which is held in high regard by all, and deservedly so.

I shall shut up now and get back to a spot of modelling, but not before wishing all my fellow Westerners a very Merry Christmas.

Jonte
 

Vulcan47

Member
Phew! As a possibly soon to be extinct low life kit manufacturer, but with a few last gasps left hopefully, I’ll add my two cents worth.

It might be worth remembering that way back at the very beginning, this forum was born out of the demise of the original MIGO (modern image gauge 0) forum. But things change. There never would have been enough interest in the post steam era - which is not modern anyway - to sustain such a forum, and so it did evolve under Cynric’s guidance.

With the advent of more RTR in 7mm the forum has again changed. Initially it was 7mm only too. And that has changed. So - what’s the big deal?

I’m a kit manufacturer, but one of the threads that gives me the greatest pleasure on here is Geoff’s GWR branch line thread. Mostly RTR in terms of locos and stock, and GWR - neither are great interests of mine - but his layout takes you right ‘there’, and in my book that is a tremendous achievement.

And the what’s on your workbench thread too. Let’s see some aircraft on it if that is what is on your workbench. We learn from other branches of the hobby. We have very much to learn from military modellers in the fields of painting and weathering.

More than anything though it is a hobby for pity’s sake! We are supposed to be adults.

We are not carrying the burden of saving either individual lives or the planet itself. We are simply meant to be pursuing a hobby that gives us pleasure. And if you gain pleasure from posting your work on this forum then just take pleasure in that - feedback or not. Why must it be any more complex than this? The forum has, as l have said above, changed beyond recognition. It has its own life now and will continue to change.

We must all stand by the decisions we take in life. You could say I’m a fool (no hang on - don’t!) investing in a large range of kits with the ABS stuff, as well as my own home grown ranges, at a time when kit building is in decline. I feel though that I’ve got enough interesting ideas on how to make them more relevant to the present for the effort to be successful, both creatively and financially. Only time will tell if I’m right.

And if I’m wrong l won’t whinge about it - I’ll just spend more time watching the red kites, herons, badgers and reptiles on my land and carry on creating my wild flower meadow!

DJP/MMP
Hi DJP/MMP,

Do you ever intend to reintroduce your excellent range of Modern Motive Power Diesel Kits or has the 7mm modern traction ready to run revolution made this financially unviable?

Best regards,

Matt.
 

djparkins

Western Thunderer
Hi DJP/MMP,

Do you ever intend to reintroduce your excellent range of Modern Motive Power Diesel Kits or has the 7mm modern traction ready to run revolution made this financially unviable?

Best regards,

Matt.

When I said in that previous post about a soon to become extinct manufacturer - I was referring to myself knocking on a bit now! But I'm certainly not bowing out. No way.

The straight answer is yes - but!

I withdrew them years ago because people were carping about them being hard to build, or actually having too much detail and value in the box for the price they were paying!!! So I thought **** this, I don't get this from military modellers, and withdrew them.

Obviously any demand for them will be much diminished by the RTR market, but the costs of re-introducing them is very low as all the tooling costs were amortised years ago. We have patterns for other types of loco [and multiple unit too] that have never been released.

I have been really encouraged by the amount of of emails I've been getting asking about them lately. So yes, most of them will come back out, but in modified format and with increased variants, and still be cheaper than the equivalent RTR. We will make sure everything is pre-formed this time, as we really did seriously overestimate the number of modellers with an armoury of large folding and rolling bars in their possession!

But re-tooling and re-introduction will only be at our own pace and when work on our military ranges [and now the ABS ranges] allows. I don't do release dates! It's really nice to know there are still people who want to build things - so that input is very much appreciated.

In the meantime we have just re-released our ever useful and popular generic Mainline Diesel Detail Set for those of you who want to have a go at tarting up those plastic jobbies!

Also - some of you have asked about the re-introductions of the LMS 40 Ton Bogie Well Trolley Wagon - this is now back, still with the optional load of two ship propellers.
And also our LMS 30 Ton Bogie Bolster is back -

Also still got some stock of the cast ABS wagons and packs at really good prices.

Sorry for blatants plugs!

Best to all

DJP
www.djparkins.com
 
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