Building an MMP RMB - a box of delights
- Thread starter Heather Kay
- Start date
Heather Kay
Western Thunderer
I think there will be be a level of weathering to do. I will let the paint dry hard for a day or so before getting things to look a bit worn.
Heather Kay
Western Thunderer
I have had a morning of osteopaths and running around, and I always find it hard to get back into the swing of things after minor disruptions like that.
I like to try things out at various stages of a build. In this case, I wanted to make sure the seating units would slot into place with the minimum of fuss. A coat of paint can make all the difference to a sliding fit and not fitting at all.
The paint on the seats is very susceptible to fingernail damage, so I expect some retouching will be required after final fitting. I found just a gnat's trimmed off the end board legs helped. Hindsight is wonderful, because it might have paid to fit the ashtrays after the seats! I can also now see areas where a paintbrush of floor colour would be useful.
It's all coming together, slowly. I may be in a position to work out fitting the roof soon.
I like to try things out at various stages of a build. In this case, I wanted to make sure the seating units would slot into place with the minimum of fuss. A coat of paint can make all the difference to a sliding fit and not fitting at all.
The paint on the seats is very susceptible to fingernail damage, so I expect some retouching will be required after final fitting. I found just a gnat's trimmed off the end board legs helped. Hindsight is wonderful, because it might have paid to fit the ashtrays after the seats! I can also now see areas where a paintbrush of floor colour would be useful.
It's all coming together, slowly. I may be in a position to work out fitting the roof soon.
Heather Kay
Western Thunderer
I think that's an optical illusion. They're soldered on (glued originally, but they basically started to fall off during handling), and while I cleaned up afterwards they're not sparkly clean. They will, after all, be painted in livery colour. The inner shell will need some judicious glue to align it properly with the outer sides, too.
Wagonman
Western Thunderer
Heather Kay
Western Thunderer
Heather Kay
Western Thunderer
My word, has it really been so long? This is what happens when a carefully planned work schedule gets put out due to silly deadlines. 
This week has been rather fractured, and I've been grabbing odd moments at the workbench to see what's what. The next big job on this build is fitting that wretched roof, and it is something I have been approaching carefully, making slow movements and trying not to catch its eye.
Here's the state of play. I tested the underframe for running qualities yesterday. I then began to assess the roof properly. Looking at it from various angles, I concluded it wasn't likely I could disassemble things. I made a thick styrene profile, based on the top part of one of the interior partitions, which I ran up and down the inside of the roof to see how it looked.
The roof came preformed, and it isn't a million miles away from the double curved shape. Perhaps a little more of a curve above the cant rail was needed. I found a suitable bit of dowel and gently teased things with the fingers. It started to look a bit better.
So today I thought it was time to really make an effort. Some more fettling, and the roof actually looked like it might actually fit properly after all. It will still need a little help to hold some area down, but this was encouraging.
I then spent the rest of the afternoon cleaning the roof and body. A lot of handling grime had left both looking a sorry mess, and giving things a bit of a scrub with wire wool, brass and fibre brushes allowed me to assess areas that would need attention before painting could begin. It also helped by knocking off details that were loose - such as the styrene corrosion strips. If I can hang on long enough, I think there may be better versions in the pipeline towards the end of January.
Anyway, I've had a think about where cross bracing might be efficacious in the body and roof. That's the red marks visible in the photo. Tomorrow, I shall try some ideas out regarding fixing roofs to bodies.
This week has been rather fractured, and I've been grabbing odd moments at the workbench to see what's what. The next big job on this build is fitting that wretched roof, and it is something I have been approaching carefully, making slow movements and trying not to catch its eye.
Here's the state of play. I tested the underframe for running qualities yesterday. I then began to assess the roof properly. Looking at it from various angles, I concluded it wasn't likely I could disassemble things. I made a thick styrene profile, based on the top part of one of the interior partitions, which I ran up and down the inside of the roof to see how it looked.
The roof came preformed, and it isn't a million miles away from the double curved shape. Perhaps a little more of a curve above the cant rail was needed. I found a suitable bit of dowel and gently teased things with the fingers. It started to look a bit better.
So today I thought it was time to really make an effort. Some more fettling, and the roof actually looked like it might actually fit properly after all. It will still need a little help to hold some area down, but this was encouraging.
I then spent the rest of the afternoon cleaning the roof and body. A lot of handling grime had left both looking a sorry mess, and giving things a bit of a scrub with wire wool, brass and fibre brushes allowed me to assess areas that would need attention before painting could begin. It also helped by knocking off details that were loose - such as the styrene corrosion strips. If I can hang on long enough, I think there may be better versions in the pipeline towards the end of January.
Anyway, I've had a think about where cross bracing might be efficacious in the body and roof. That's the red marks visible in the photo. Tomorrow, I shall try some ideas out regarding fixing roofs to bodies.
farnetti
Western Thunderer
Atta girl, show it who's boss.
I've found with kits from some other manufacturers that pre-rolled parts were nothing like the shape they should have been. The MMP tank wagon was very good, how did you find the curvature of the body sides on this?
It's been a long six weeks since your last post, for obvious reasons my favourite topic.
Ken
I've found with kits from some other manufacturers that pre-rolled parts were nothing like the shape they should have been. The MMP tank wagon was very good, how did you find the curvature of the body sides on this?
It's been a long six weeks since your last post, for obvious reasons my favourite topic.
Ken
Heather Kay
Western Thunderer
Six weeks‽ Cripes! I blame the GWR broad gauge.
The body sides needed a little tweaking, but they weren't too far off. The harder bit, I've found, is getting the interior kit to match the outsides.
The body sides needed a little tweaking, but they weren't too far off. The harder bit, I've found, is getting the interior kit to match the outsides.
Heather Kay
Western Thunderer
As with so many builds, there are times when you have to work out what happens several steps down the line before you tackle the next step. For this build, I am calling a temporary halt because several things need to happen, but I need some parts in place before I can do them.
Let me explain. I am working to fit the roof, as you may realise by now, but not using the method outlined in the kit instructions. This is my choice, to overcome some problems caused by me earlier in the construction sequence. The new fixing method requires some soldering of cross-braces in the roof and across the body. The body braces can't be fitted until the interior is installed. Fitting the interior will make for some interesting problems with painting, but I think I have a workaround for that. I also hope to collect some detail etches from our very own Tom H which can replace the styrene corrosion strips for metal ones, but I won't get those until I can visit the Bristol O Gauge show in a couple of weeks or so. I would rather like to get some etch primer on the body before I fit the interior, but I would also like to fit the new parts before priming too. I am aware that fitting the braces to the body after priming the exterior might cause problems, but I can live with that.
So, given all that chicken and egg nonsense, what's the plan for the roof fixing? Here's a handy diagram I prepared, which I hope explains things.
Magnets. I want to keep the roof removable, as is my wont, in case interior fittings go a-wandering. It will be easier to paint the roof while it's not attached to the body, as well. The idea is to use rare earth magnets, in conjunction with the tabs and slots and perhaps a modicum of contact adhesive, to hold the roof in place with sufficent grip to survive most handling.
This morning, I made the body and roof braces. Nothing is fixed as yet, for the reasons already stated. I wanted the body braces to be fairly inconspicuous, and being thinner material they should slot down between the outer and inner shells. The roof braces sit on the inner edge of the slot etch that forms the cant rail and guttering on the roof. The magnets will be superglued in place, and being in compression separated by brass should hold sufficiently for handling, but pull apart with minimum twist.
That's the plan. The coach will now slip gently to the back of the bench for a spell.
Let me explain. I am working to fit the roof, as you may realise by now, but not using the method outlined in the kit instructions. This is my choice, to overcome some problems caused by me earlier in the construction sequence. The new fixing method requires some soldering of cross-braces in the roof and across the body. The body braces can't be fitted until the interior is installed. Fitting the interior will make for some interesting problems with painting, but I think I have a workaround for that. I also hope to collect some detail etches from our very own Tom H which can replace the styrene corrosion strips for metal ones, but I won't get those until I can visit the Bristol O Gauge show in a couple of weeks or so. I would rather like to get some etch primer on the body before I fit the interior, but I would also like to fit the new parts before priming too. I am aware that fitting the braces to the body after priming the exterior might cause problems, but I can live with that.
So, given all that chicken and egg nonsense, what's the plan for the roof fixing? Here's a handy diagram I prepared, which I hope explains things.
Magnets. I want to keep the roof removable, as is my wont, in case interior fittings go a-wandering. It will be easier to paint the roof while it's not attached to the body, as well. The idea is to use rare earth magnets, in conjunction with the tabs and slots and perhaps a modicum of contact adhesive, to hold the roof in place with sufficent grip to survive most handling.
This morning, I made the body and roof braces. Nothing is fixed as yet, for the reasons already stated. I wanted the body braces to be fairly inconspicuous, and being thinner material they should slot down between the outer and inner shells. The roof braces sit on the inner edge of the slot etch that forms the cant rail and guttering on the roof. The magnets will be superglued in place, and being in compression separated by brass should hold sufficiently for handling, but pull apart with minimum twist.
That's the plan. The coach will now slip gently to the back of the bench for a spell.
OzzyO
Western Thunderer
Heather, could you use thin strips of steel (corn beef tins could be good and you get to eat the bit inside) for the fixing in the coach body. No magnets sticking down inside the coach. If you made the strips as wide as the magnets, or used the same in the coach roof you should then get a very good grip, using less magnets.
The only part of the strip that would need a good coat of paint would be the cut edges as that is where the steel would show.
OzzyO.
The only part of the strip that would need a good coat of paint would be the cut edges as that is where the steel would show.
OzzyO.
Heather Kay
Western Thunderer
That's a good idea. The magnets I plan to use are very small, about 1.5mm diameter, and tests I did seemed to demonstrate enough "grab" through the brass layers without being too strong to prevent pulling them apart.
I shall investigate using a steel alternative for the body bracing.
I shall investigate using a steel alternative for the body bracing.
OzzyO
Western Thunderer
You may find that if you use the tin can on both the top and bottom you can use less magnets. As the steel at the top with the magnets on it will attract the steel at the bottom over its whole length.
The grab using steel (tin can) will be better using less magnets as the magnetic flux will run through the metal better (IE it will not have a non magnetic metal to flow through). The tin can is also a very nice metal to solder using just about any solder and takes paint very well.
I made a tool box out of tin plate over 30+ years ago and did not paint it and it's still in use.
OzzyO.
The grab using steel (tin can) will be better using less magnets as the magnetic flux will run through the metal better (IE it will not have a non magnetic metal to flow through). The tin can is also a very nice metal to solder using just about any solder and takes paint very well.
I made a tool box out of tin plate over 30+ years ago and did not paint it and it's still in use.
OzzyO.
Heather Kay
Western Thunderer
Ye gods! Over a year since I last had the courage to look at this thing! Still, I have girded loins, pulled up bootstraps, and forced myself to shift the RMB carcass to the front of the bench. It is time to get this thing finished.
That roof. While I've not been working on the actual model, it's never been far from my brain cell. I've worried over the various schemes, and worried over the order they have to be done in, and I think there is a way forward. I'm also hoping the faint glimmer at the end of the tunnel is not an approaching train!
Here I am assessing the damage of neglect. Nothing too serious, just a few bits falling off where insufficient adhesive was used. The detritus between outer body and inner body is destined to be fitted into the shell once the roof has been successfully attached. If that bit works, we are all fine and dandy - ish.
Right, struts in place. I've gone with the brasswork at this stage. If the magnets prove too powerful, I have a fallback plan of a sacrificial biscuit tin. Signs are the brass will keep the magnets sufficiently apart to make roof removal relatively painless, but strong enough to hold the curve down to the body.
One of the problems I had been wrestling with was the fact the interior has to be installed before the body struts went in. In an ideal world I would have painted the exterior, fitted the interior, glazed, and popped the roof on - as the designer intended. As it is, being inept, I've had to fit the partially constructed interior, with the intention of the remaining pieces going in after the roof attachment has been shown to successful. I hope to use thin plastic material in the window apertures to mask the interior for livery paintwork, swapping out for the proper glazing material later on.
I have also given some thought to resurrecting tabs to attach the inner ends to the roof. Anythin helping the roof sit down will be welcome, so that's my plan for this afternoon.
That roof. While I've not been working on the actual model, it's never been far from my brain cell. I've worried over the various schemes, and worried over the order they have to be done in, and I think there is a way forward. I'm also hoping the faint glimmer at the end of the tunnel is not an approaching train!
Here I am assessing the damage of neglect. Nothing too serious, just a few bits falling off where insufficient adhesive was used. The detritus between outer body and inner body is destined to be fitted into the shell once the roof has been successfully attached. If that bit works, we are all fine and dandy - ish.
Right, struts in place. I've gone with the brasswork at this stage. If the magnets prove too powerful, I have a fallback plan of a sacrificial biscuit tin. Signs are the brass will keep the magnets sufficiently apart to make roof removal relatively painless, but strong enough to hold the curve down to the body.
One of the problems I had been wrestling with was the fact the interior has to be installed before the body struts went in. In an ideal world I would have painted the exterior, fitted the interior, glazed, and popped the roof on - as the designer intended. As it is, being inept, I've had to fit the partially constructed interior, with the intention of the remaining pieces going in after the roof attachment has been shown to successful. I hope to use thin plastic material in the window apertures to mask the interior for livery paintwork, swapping out for the proper glazing material later on.
I have also given some thought to resurrecting tabs to attach the inner ends to the roof. Anythin helping the roof sit down will be welcome, so that's my plan for this afternoon.
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