Building an MMP RMB - a box of delights

[Heather Kay]

Do you have a scale for that bit of gear, Bob? I can see how that can be fabricated from odds of tube and wire quite easily.

Meanwhile, I sent off a few requests to local heritage lines that have RMBs on their stock lists. So far, even over Christmas, I have had two responses. One, from one of the better known lines which will remain nameless to save them embarrassment, basically responded that I should refer to the Parkin books. I explained I'd already done that, and I still wanted to explore a real coach. Not heard back yet.

The other has been more than helpful, even though their example was never air brake/ETH fitted. I think it's used as a static restaurant car, I'm going to arrange a visit there in the new year and hope the internal fittings are as original as the outside. That's the Colne Valley Railway for you.

 

[Bob Reid]

Here you go Heather - though bear in mind I'll need to try and find out if they were used on the RMB's following conversion rather than send you off on a wild goose chase!

As far as possible candidates - the nearest dated info I have is the RCTS book from 1980 (correct to Jan 1980) which gives only a few RMB's at that point as having the combination of CW bogie, dual brakes and dual heat. These were W1813, W1814, W1815, M1816, W1833, M1838 & M1860. All except 1816 were by then refurbished.

I'd be wary of taking many details from 1809 at the Colne Valley - it is unfortunately one from the earliest batch/diagram 97 - although it's been modified since building, much of the original setup (roof and interior for example) remains the same as when built albeit having had a few heavy repairs since, and quite a bit different from the later diagrams.

As far as the ETH equipment is concerned, leaving aside the ETH Fixed end boxes, Receptacles and Dummy Receptacle on the ends, there is little visible below the bottom of the solebar. Apart from the installation of the interior heaters the only visible part is the bottom 2" or so of the Distribution Fuse Box - It measured 1'-3 3/8" square by approx. 5" deep and sat almost directly under the transverse corridor (2'-3") from the vehicles vertical centre line on the opposite side from the buffet compartment. Graham has a clear picture of one here

Unless of course you want to model all of the 3/4" & 1" dia. conduit hidden up above the level of bottom of the solebar, there's not a lot else to see. If you need details of the visible electric heaters on the interior (for all the visible heaters there were, let me know).

Brakes - well they're in hand but if you come across a dual braked one - photo's would help me identify what's fitted no end.

Regards,

 

[alcazar]

Some heritage lines need to better understand the word "customer".

There are those run like giant trainsets by their "owners".

 

[Heather Kay]

Bob, that's brilliant. Thanks for all that.

I think any expedition to see a real coach will have to bear in mind any modifications that may have taken place over time since withdrawal. At the very least, I can add to the pool of knowledge with detail photos of various bits and pieces.

My hope is one of the preserved RMBs will be either dual heated or dual braked, or - the holy grail - both. Knowing my luck, it'll be one of those further north!

 

[djparkins]

Some heritage lines need to better understand the word "customer".

There are those run like giant trainsets by their "owners".

Why? What is in it for them?

 

[richard carr]

Heather

According to my 1983 platform 5 coaching stock book the diagram 99 dual braked dual heated rmbs for the eastern region were none, they are all shown as air brake only, all with fluorescent lights (when did that happen ) and some with a pa system.

Numbers are

E 1874
E 1876 - 79
E 1882.

I will try and gt hold of a 1981 book one will turn up on e bay soon.


Richard

 

[Heather Kay]

they are all shown as air brake only, all with fluorescent lights (when did that happen ) and some with a pa system.

Ooh, now that's interesting. The plot thickens.

My guess is they may have been refurbished in during the 1970s to run with the faster Mk2 services. There weren't many Mk2 catering vehicles, from the top of my head.

 

[Bob Reid]

Ooh, now that's interesting. The plot thickens.

My guess is they may have been refurbished in during the 1970s to run with the faster Mk2 services. There weren't many Mk2 catering vehicles, from the top of my head.

I think the Fluorescents were added from around 77' on - though I can check that.

 

[mth]

Any good for you Heather?

 

[Heather Kay]

Any good for you Heather?

Very much so. A diagram 99 dual-braked, electrically-heated RMB. Perfect.

That's the one at Old Oak Common TMD, I believe.

I've had another response from one of the smaller heritage lines this morning. The Kent & East Sussex seem only too happy to help. Another positive for the smaller lines as far as railway modellers and close-up research are concerned.

 

[SteadyRed]

This is a build I am particularly looking forward to.

 

[mth]

That's the one at Old Oak Common TMD, I believe.

You may think that, but I can't posibly comment..

 

[Heather Kay]

Here we are, three pages into the thread, and I've not even cut metal yet! I love this forum!

This is the specification Richard and I have agreed upon:

The model will represent a Mk1 RMB to diagram 99, as running circa 1981.

Exterior
Livery BR Blue and Grey InterCity, red strip above window level, branded Buffet.
Underframe and bogies given my usual basic weathering. (Richard plans to weather all coaches for this train at the same time at a later date.)
Fitting Kadee couplers.
Fitting supplied Commonwealth bogies.
Researching and fitting extra equipment for ETH and air braking.
Corrosion strips for the doors. (I'll be in touch with Tom for a set of etches.)
I've found two variants of rainstrip over the centre passenger/kitchen doors. I'll need to go through the references to match running numbers, lot numbers and diagrams to work out which sort of strip goes with the running numbers Richard would like.

Interior
This is slightly more complex, as it depends on refurbishment programmes and so on.
Passenger area pretty much as provided in the kit. I am proceeding on the basis that beyond seat coverings, table tops and lighting not much was updated or refurbished. This seems to fit with photos of preserved coaches.
Seat covers the usual BR dark blue (or to match existing models Richard has). (There is an etched pattern on the kit seats, which I can dry brush to pick out.)
Table tops appear to be a light grey or white Formica.​

The passenger area at the buffet end was non-smoking on E-numbered vehicles.
The bar/ counter to be modelled open, but not with added details of food, cutlery and so on.
The bar/counter area to be finished to match as best as possible one of the preserved coaches.​

​

Richard's also sent me a couple of Flickr photo links for some B&G period RMBs.

Mk1 RMB E1871 at Ramsbottom in July 2012
Mk1 RMB W1816 at Leamington Spa in 1987

 

[40126]

Very much so. A diagram 99 dual-braked, electrically-heated RMB. Perfect.

That's the one at Old Oak Common TMD, I believe.

I've had another response from one of the smaller heritage lines this morning. The Kent & East Sussex seem only too happy to help. Another positive for the smaller lines as far as railway modellers and close-up research are concerned.

Just goes to prove, Heather, If you dont ask, you dont get

Steve

 

[Bob Reid]

Here we are, three pages into the thread, and I've not even cut metal yet! I love this forum!

This is the specification Richard and I have agreed upon:

The model will represent a Mk1 RMB to diagram 99, as running circa 1981......​

​

I've found two variants of rainstrip over the centre passenger/kitchen doors. I'll need to go through the references to match running numbers, lot numbers and diagrams to work out which sort of strip goes with the running numbers Richard would like.​

​

Already covered here Heather http://www.westernthunder.co.uk/ind...-rmb-a-box-of-delights.2987/page-2#post-81825

Only the 12 Diagram 97's (1801-12) had curved rainstrips. In addition the roof vents and extractors are in different positions on this 12 to the Diagram 98 & 99's and therefore shouldn't be copied from the likes of 1809 on the Colne Valley.

 

[alcazar]

Why? What is in it for them?

Income?
If they annoy people with their can't-won't attitude, those same people won't spend any money there. Or don't they need income? Isn't that what killed the branchlines, in most cases?

There is one that I won't name that will NEVER get another penny out of me, having messed me about twice and treated me like something they trod in.

Others have had a quite a few £££ this year alone. Including actual donations to the GCR for their bridge appeal.

 

[Bob Reid]

According to Parkins book, diagram 99 is vehicles from lots 30520 and 30702

What edition of Parkin Mick? The 1991 edition I have , matches the BR list details I gave here http://www.westernthunder.co.uk/ind...-rmb-a-box-of-delights.2987/page-2#post-81825 Lot's 30520, 30670 & 30702, all Diagram 99...

Regards,

 

[djparkins]

Income?
If they annoy people with their can't-won't attitude, those same people won't spend any money there. Or don't they need income? Isn't that what killed the branchlines, in most cases?

I see that Jeff - but the normal family on a day out, or on a Santa Special [nice seasonal touch there!], would not know that the dastardly operators of The Little Pillock Light Railway failed to let Heather photograph their RMB are they?

 

[Heather Kay]

I see that Jeff - but the normal family on a day out, or on a Santa Special [nice seasonal touch there!], would not know that the dastardly operators of The Little Pillock Light Railway failed to let Heather photograph their RMB are they?

It's possible the smaller railways are still operated by, if not run by enthusiasts. Some of the more established lines are big businesses these days, and may consider requests like mine as a hindrance and unlikely to bring them any income. I think this is a pity, but I can sort of see their point.

In my message to the lines I've approached I did offer reasonable expenses, as I know someone may well have to accompany me, or give me access to parts not generally open to the general public. I have been very impressed by the responses so far, although three lines are still to reply. (It's Christmas, and frankly I didn't expect responses as soon as I got them anyway, which has impressed me all the more.)

 

[Bob Reid]

Thanks to a good friend I've been given a copy of the 1981 P5 publication showing the RMB's. Those that fit the bill i.e Diagram 99 with CW Bogies, Dual Heat & Dual Brake are listed as M1813, M1814, E1815, M1816, E1833, M1857 & M1860. One Diagram 98 M1838 (converted to CW Bogies) also fits the Dual Heat / Dual Brake bill..... Of them all only 1814 hasn't survived

(Just a note - the P5 publication list is dated July 1981)....