Building an MMP RMB - a box of delights

richard carr

Western Thunderer
Heather

Don't worry, the ones fitted work that is what matters when the coach is running as part of a train.

Can't wait to see it tomorrow.


Richard
 

Heather Kay

Western Thunderer
Well, I'm pleased to say the rolling frames rolled very nicely. Despite having no buffing gear fitted, it also managed a complete circuit of Croscombe, being propelled by some ancient 7mm diesel motive power.

On with the buffer beam detailing, and fitting out the brake gear, I think.
 

Heather Kay

Western Thunderer
Today seemed to take an absolute age to get anywhere.

The plan was to work on buffer beam details, but as is the way with some kits, I got sidetracked by a problem with the brake vee-hangers.

First, though, I tried to work out a thought I'd had. Richard originally wanted Kadee couplers, and when I assessed the build I felt the reworking required to fit them might compromise the design of the kit a little. I looked at the kit couplings, and told Richard they would probably operate with Kadee-fitted coaches pretty well, and we agreed I would continue to build the kit as its designer intended.

Having thought about things as I worked on other parts, I came to think the Kadee coupler would actually fit into the kit drag-box. This is what I started out doing this morning. To cut a long story short, yes, the Kadee couplers might fit, but the ones I have in stock don't reach far enough beyond the buffer beam to function adequately. I toyed with the idea of some radical drag-box surgery, but decided in the end to just go with the original kit couplers. It's what we had decided to do, anyway.

On the way, I realised I had made an error in not fitting the drag-boxes earlier in the sequence. The subsequent disassembly and reassembly is not pretty, but I can make a better repair later. I also considered how the ETH connection boxes would be mounted on the buffer beam, the answer being the cosmetic items that fit behind the buffers - representing the system that transmitted buffing forces into the frame itself on the real thing - would suffice as support. It rather looks as if that's what they sort of did on the real thing, at least.

Moving on, I decided now would be as good a time as any to complete the underframe truss details, and look at fitting the vacuum brake cylinders and cross shafts.

IMG_7600.jpg

Here's a mockup. The cross shaft and cylinder snap into the relevant mounting holes neatly. The two castings behind are the direct admission valve and the appropriate connections. As you can see, they need some careful bending to make them fit. The cross shaft also has some complex brass knitwear to fabricate - and one look at the exploded diagram was enough to put me off for a time. What I'd give for a diagram that showed how it all was supposed to end up when finished...

Meanwhile, I noticed the cross shafts were not sitting flat, and indeed had adopted a slight curve in order to locate in the frame. This puzzled me, as I couldn't see where I might have made an error in fitting the vees or the bracket on the opposite frame. I checked the main trusses were seated properly on the floor web, and even added some extra spot soldering to ensure it was all firmly fixed together. There was definitely something amiss, so I had a think.

IMG_7601.jpg

The most obvious solution was to lift the vees up a small amount. You may recall they are fitted with effectively a butt joint along the top inside edge of the sole bars. To raise them, I soldered a strip of scrap etch at the bottom, so it would meet the solebar again.

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To align the vee for its revised height, I tack soldered a length of wire across the frames, ensuring it was as square and level as I could get it. The cross shaft is almost touching the frames on the real thing, incidentally. The vees have only been raised by about half a millimetre all told, but at least the cross shafts are no longer bowed.

And that's as far as I got. I'm going to spend some time studying the drawings again to try and understand how all the brake rigging and connections components fit together - not forgetting I have to fit an air cylinder and lever in the mix. :eek::drool:
 

Bob Reid

Western Thunderer
This is the original arrangement for Vacuum Brake (only) with compensated & equalised brakegear Heather - if you can hang on a day or so, I'll add in the changes needed for the Dual Brake arrangement....

Comp Brake 1B.jpg

Comp Brake 1C.jpg


Note that the Cylinder Brackets and Intermediate verticals between the top & bottom Longitudinals have been omitted. The main changes for the dual brake fitment was the addition of another lever to the brake shaft on the bottom side to connect directly to the brake cylinder piston. The lever at the vacuum brake cylinder end was altered to allow the brakes to work independently.

p.s. The Vee Hangers centre on the model looks compared to the prototype a tad near to the vehicle centre it should be 71mm (+ a gnats whisker) away from it... Which might explain the brakeshaft fouling the longitudinal - though correcting it would mean moving all of the mounts....

Regards
 

Bob Reid

Western Thunderer
Sorry - should be fixed now! - I could see them when logged in - not when logged out - made the mistake of trying to use the web address of images I'd placed in a WT conversation!
 

Heather Kay

Western Thunderer
Sorry - should be fixed now! - I could see them when logged in - not when not logged out - made the mistake of trying to use the web address of images I'd placed in a WT conversation!


Excellent. They help a lot. Thanks Bob! Looking forward to the dual brake version as that's my next challenge after working out how things fit on the buffer beams.

What made me chuckle was this phrase from the written instructions: "The brake linkage has been very slightly simplified." My thoughts were along the lines of "If that's simplified…!" :))
 

djparkins

Western Thunderer
Excellent. They help a lot. Thanks Bob! Looking forward to the dual brake version as that's my next challenge after working out how things fit on the buffer beams.

What made me chuckle was this phrase from the written instructions: "The brake linkage has been very slightly simplified." My thoughts were along the lines of "If that's simplified…!" :))

Now Now! Lets not fall into that 'feeding the ego at the manufacrurer's expense caper' we spoke about! They have been simplified - if you look at Bob's drawings you can see that parts 50 & 51 are mounted on some brass rod running between parts 48 & 49, rather than the angled beam & brackets shown courtesy of Bob - this is all tucked away out of sight so is not really important. You should also note that parts 52 x2 are NOT fitted on the RMB as these apply to the BCK/BFK kits only. You should now see clearly how all this goes together and that it is indeed in simplified form. Mind you the arrangement that Darren Sherwood photographed for me of a BCK is NOT quite as sketched out by Bob in regard to all the linkage parts - but I guess that is a question once again of being beware of preserved vehicles.

BTW the sloping top flanges on parts 8 & 9 look to be riding up a little on your assembly - maybe its just a trick of the light but they appear rippled. Everything needs to be 'tight'. I notice too what appears to be a mis-alignment on the top plate on the far side of the shallow cross-member assembly - post 151. Could again be the lighting or lense distortion.

DJP
 

Heather Kay

Western Thunderer
Now Now! Lets not fall into that 'feeding the ego at the manufacrurer's expense caper' we spoke about!

;)

What I meant, as you probably realise, is it looks complex in the exploded drawings, despite the simplification. When you take out the sections not relevant to this build, it does become more apparent how things fit together. Bob's drawings are just that little extra help, since I didn't manage to crawl right under the preserved coach the other day. I've been piecing together layout from various photographic sources, as well as the instructions.

BTW the sloping top flanges on parts 8 & 9 look to be riding up a little on your assembly - maybe its just a trick of the light but they appear rippled. Everything needs to be 'tight'. I notice too what appears to be a mis-alignment on the top plate on the far side of the shallow cross-member assembly - post 151. Could again be the lighting or lense distortion.


I have worked quite hard at keeping things as tight and as square as possible during this stage of the build. I found it all but impossible to avoid some rippling along the floor web and sole bars. I've just had a good look over the frames in daylight - yes, we have managed to get some daylight here today! - and there is a little distortion at certain points. Some of what you see may well also be lighting. I have a twin-lamp magnifier which sometimes throws odd effects into the photography, particularly with shiny surfaces.

Either way, thanks for pointing that out.
 

Heather Kay

Western Thunderer
Today's efforts have been concentrated on the buffer beams.

IMG_7603.jpg

This looks more complex than it is, but as you can see there are lots of parts to fit - and that's before you remember there are two air/control pipes and the electric train heating connections to fit.

Photos of the real thing are always helpful, and happily I don't seem to be alone in wanting to see such detail. A search on Flickr turns up many useful images. For example:

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MK1 coaches at Ongar railway station by Yanamation, on Flickr

…and this one who doesn't like folk embedding their work in other places.

As you can see, things can begin to get very busy under that gangway. Anyway, my first task was to fit the etched safety loops to the buffer collars.

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The collars are functional, in that if the buckeye is modelled dropped, the collars can be dropped over the buffers as in the real thing. As this build will be modelled with the buckeyes raised, the collars will be fixed to their brackets, which live on the outer corners of the buffer beams.

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The parts are small - though there are smaller to come. To make life easier, since I found long ago I couldn't grow any more hands, I used some Blue-tack to hold things while I carefully placed and cyanoed the etches in place. The drawing infers there should be two loops per collar, but I could only find enough to allow one per collar. I think there are spares on the etch, which seems to be the case for many of the tiny components. This is welcome, since the inevitable will happen eventually and one will ping off into hyperspace.

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Many of the parts are whitemetal castings. I have assembled the steam heating pipes, and so far there's no glue anywhere near them. A few passes with a fine file, and the spring "pipe" has been carefully wound onto the castings. I will attached a storage chain to the bottom, which will help the pipes curl nicely.

IMG_7607.jpg

To give a sense of scale, here's the NS etch of detail parts. Tiny loops are for the various safety and operating chains on the buffer beams. Part 4 is a hooked bracket which I spent a deal of time trying to fix to the beam before I noticed it is usually removed where air pipes are installed. Know your prototype!

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Fine chain is included in the kit for detailing up the buffer beams. I personally think it's a little over scale - though very fine nevertheless - so I shall make looped wire versions. The chain will still get used for the dynamo safety chain.

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Finally, here are the parts still to be fitted to one end. This should keep me busy for a while yet. :drool::thumbs:
 

Heather Kay

Western Thunderer
It's been almost painfully slow today. I've completed a single, solitary, lonesome buffer beam to my satisfaction.

I worked methodically, partly following the written instructions, partly photos, and my own nose as I headed off piste. There have been swear words, happily masked by the high winds we had earlier, but I think the result is worth the effort.

IMG_7616.jpg

Although the kit allows for the vac pipe to be disconnected from its storage clip and connected to other vehicles, I know this model will be run in a train made up of other kits where most of the pipework is cast. You will note I've added twisted wire to represent the various chains that festoon the real thing. I can understand why David selected real chain, as it's the only thing that drapes like the real thing. I just felt it looked over scale - a personal thing and no comment on the choice of materials.

If you peer carefully, you'll see the right hand buffer collar safety chain is attached to the buffer base upper right bolt. To ensure things stayed attached, I drilled through the cast bolt, and soldered the NS chain loop to it, before gluing into the hole and dressing off the reverse.

I worked out a way of fitting the JLTRT cast air pipes. Looking at various photos showing later Mk1 dangly bits, there was a small amount of variation in location, so I chose one that was best fit for what I could manage. One variant has the right hand pipe, on it's little angle bracket, much closer to the coupling. I thought that might be a bit of a bother in service, so opted for the variant where things were clustered about the vacuum pipe.

IMG_7615.jpg

With no positive fixings, I engineered a subtle bodge. Brass wire was attached to each casting to represent the storage brackets, and left long enough at the end to let me solder to the back of the buffer beam.

The cosmetic brackets are still to go in, and then I can work on the ETH fittings. Before that, the other end needs constructing - which will be a little easier now I understand how things go together and what order to do them in to make it easier. A job for tomorrow, when I can see clearly again! :confused:

On a slight tangent, my workbench roster is filling up. If someone had said this time last year I'd make a growing small business out of making models for people, I'd have laughed at them. As I type I have the two current builds (RMB and 57xx), two diesel kits, the first of a triplet of broad gauge coaches, a WD and the threat of three more Mk2 coaches, and I've just quoted to build two more locos some time next year (if the prices are accepted, of course). I may need staff at this rate!
 

Osgood

Western Thunderer
.....I may need staff at this rate!

The detail in this build is terrific! Don't know about staff, but if our glimpse into the future courtesy of Gene Rodenberry's Startrek proves true, you may want to look beyond humble 3-D printers and start thinking about where you might site the Replicator (it will save time on cooking too therefore more modelling time :) ):

Replicator2.jpg
 

Heather Kay

Western Thunderer
:)):thumbs:

One thing has cropped up, and it's something I should have considered when I visited the real thing last week, and that is how long are the various safety chains?

I suspect Bob will know and provide chapter and verse, but this build is the first time I've realised I simply had no idea how long to make the things! I spent a while worrying at lengths of twisted wire until I reached something that looked about right. There ought to be a more scientific method, and knowing the actual dimensions of the real thing would be a start.
 

Heather Kay

Western Thunderer
Two diesels and a WD? Sounds interesting.


Actually, one of the diesels is in fact an electric loco. That's more of a "finish it for me" build, as someone else has made a superb job of what I think was originally an etched NS kit for an EM2. It needs cab detail, bogies and painting.

More of all this anon, no doubt. :cool:
 

Rob Pulham

Western Thunderer
Actually, one of the diesels is in fact an electric loco. That's more of a "finish it for me" build, as someone else has made a superb job of what I think was originally an etched NS kit for an EM2. It needs cab detail, bogies and painting.

More of all this anon, no doubt. :cool:


I too will look forward to this one Heather as I now have an ES1 in the stash - not quite the same I appreciate but still near enough for a confirmed kettle fan:rolleyes:
 
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