Finescale - of a sort?!

[Peter Insole]

Sorry Tom, I haven't been back to the thread for a while so missed your reply! I've had a rummage for some pictorial memories, but I have forgotten where I put them!

Mentioning photos, it is probably about time I popped on a progress update. Although the first part was made up before the Albury show, here is the catch-up...



I needed a pair of sturdy angle brackets to support the slidebars. The originals appear to have been either cast in iron, or perhaps more likely they were forgings from the smithy?

After hunting around for a while I spotted these at our local DIY Emporium!

By a fluke, they were exactly the right width - and the outer pre-drilled hole was precisely on the centreline of the slidebar to boot! Admittedly, the legs had to be shortened and new holes drilled, but when the thickening strips were added, the redundant holes would be invisible.



Just a little trim and rounding off the corners with a file needed here, before strips of MDF and ply were superglued to the steel and then drilled through for the nuts, bolts and screws.



I included ply in the top lamination to provide a bit of bite for the countersunk screw threads. Fortuitously, it also made the depth pretty much spot on into the bargain. The two bolts into the frames should be replaced with pretend rivets, so I will try and remember to pick up some more round headed bolts next time I'm near East Road in Cambridge!

Since Albury I have only managed to tinker a bit more with the motion...



If I'm honest, this bit was a rather time consuming trial, so shouldn't really qualify as a tinker?

I had to be extremely careful not to accidentally overcut the curves into the flat faces of the rods with the rat tail file. There were six chamfers to do in all, so plenty of opportunity to mess up?

I'm afraid I did manage to slightly nibble the fronts in a couple of places.

Thank goodness for good 'ol filler eh?

Pete.

 

[Peter Insole]

Here is the rest of todays post, bringing the tale up to date.

I have always found that the colour of steel is almost impossible to represent with any sort of paint! It is especially frustrating that at least one popular paint manufacturer's range for years has included colours described as "steel", "aluminium" and "gunmetal", but when offered up to the genuine article, those shades bear not even the slightest resemblance!

That is not to say that they aren't very useful for a myriad of other uses, just not a lot of help making wood or plastic look like the real metal!

The only solution that I have been remotely satisfied with so far is a weathered finish, AND only after applying it in tiny amounts on much smaller scale models than this beastie!

Oh well, here goes, big time, this time then...



Despite adding a surprising amount of orange and brown, it still looked a bit too blue/grey!

When mixing I think that I may have forgotten to allow for the degree of lightening that occurs when matt paints dry?



I didn't think it would too much of a problem as I had already decided to apply a coat of "Antique Pine" satin varnish in order to give an oily effect.



Hmm, it didn't quite come out as I had expected, but it is growing on me. It certainly looks well oiled now?

I might have to work hard persuading the little man's mummy that there is absolutely no chance of it coming off on the boy's fingers or clothes?!

The exposed, crosshead end of the piston rods need a bit more goo, and I have yet to work out the best method of staining and polishing the contact section of the slidebar. Any paint finish, however smooth, is likely to cause unacceptable friction.

Emulsified oil often has an interesting greenish/off white colour. Will I get away with that on a model, or will it just look like a strange error?

That could prove to be a bit of fun to come...

Pete.

 

[Scale7JB]

Colours look fantastic Pete..

JB.

 

[mickoo]

If I only got 50% close to that effect on my oily valve gear I'd be a very content person!

I've been searching for ages to find away to create the oily effect, never though of varnish to give that translucent colour effect

MD

 

[Peter Insole]

Thanks JB and Mick.

There are a couple of things I have found about the experiment with coloured varnish:

Firstly, I was mightily relieved to note that Ronseal, which I assume is water based, did not affect the metallic silver paint underneath. In the past when applying with a brush, the solvents in most varnishes - including Humbrol's own gloss and satin variety - dislodged the reflective granules in the pigment, making a dreadful glittery splurge all over everything!

The trouble with Ronseal is that you can only buy a whacking great tin, with a lifetimes worth of content. Unfortunately though, it doesn't last that long on the shelf without the tinted bit going completely solid at the bottom!

My tin of Antique Pine is still just about alive, so I went for it. (I usually keep some to use for carriage interiors, it being absolutely perfect for the common light oak "scumble"). For this job it looked spot on for the colour of steam oil when wet, but dried a touch too yellow for my taste on the crossheads!

Alternative shades available seem to have rather a lot of red pigment in them - so I'm not sure which one (if any) might be a better choice.

One thing is certain, if I splash more of the A.Pine on the long coupling and connecting rods, they could end up looking all wrong?!

I'm thinking of having a go at mixing and blending by opening three tins (reckless or what?) and using two shades, plus a clear satin at the same time! The stuff goes orf jolly fast, so I will have to work quickly. (Yea, yea, I know, when do I ever?)!

As soon as I feel brave enough to try it, I'll post the results - and if I get away with it, the winning formula too?!

Pete.

 

[oldravendale]

Hi Pete.

I'm agog. You ask

Any paint finish, however smooth, is likely to cause unacceptable friction.

Could you apply a strip of metal, perhaps nickel silver, on one surface and, maybe nylon, on the other? Wood against wood, even when varnished, will almost certainly lead to what you describe as " unacceptable friction"

An inspired thread and truly - nay totally - original. Thank you for joining us.

Brian

 

[Peter Insole]

I don't quite know what to say other than thank you Brian - I am glad you are enjoying the thread too!

Your suggestion of using metal strip on the slidebars and nylon slippers for the crossheads is the perfect answer!

I confess that I had recently reached that point of mild panic, where the thoughts of; "if I don't do something about it now, it will never get done!" A set of slidebars, whether temporary or ultimately permanent would provide impetus. Laminating and shaping the coupling rods had turned out to be a rather tedious and frustrating exercise, and I was not particularly looking forward to making the much more complex and challenging connecting rods. The desire to have something quick and easy to hang the finished articles on meant adopting an "it will have to do for the time being" approach!

The only thought given to the subject was to ensure that the wood grain on both components ran in the same direction, and that by staining, rather than painting or varnishing the running surfaces might suffice? I had based that notion upon the principle of traditional sailing boat mast treatments!

Having set the motion up, I was so surprised at how little resistance there was I have been tempted to leave everything as it is.

Instead of searching for a more suitable solution, I have been worrying long and hard about ways of colouring the surfaces without losing the running quality!

How daft is that!...?

At least I have used bolts and screws instead of glue to assemble it, so there is some hope?

Pete.

 

[Ian@StEnochs]

Pete,

An old tip I picked up from a cabinet maker is to rub wooden drawer runners with a white candle to make them slide easily. Alternatively you could spray the moving parts with a good furniture polish. It might be easier especially getting some into the piston glands and between the rubbing faces on the crosshead/slidebar. It certainly works on my wooden curtain poles which let the rings glide instead of stuttering when drawn.

Not sure if either method would affect your excellent paintwork but it will scuff over time anyway. On a working model there has to be some compromises and the young driver will be more interested in working the engine than just looking!

Ian.

 

[Peter Insole]

Thanks Ian, I really fancy the furniture polish route!

The original idea behind this project was to take a very basic toy with a very limited play life, and future proof it: Hopefully creating something that could be enjoyed by adults too.

I rather like to imagine that long after I have gone, a very scuffed and battered little loco might get brought down from a loft or dug out of a cupboard, broken bits quickly repaired or patched with whatever common materials are to hand, and a thoroughly jolly time could be had by all setting it up and having a nostalgic play!

I do hope to be around for a bit longer, enough at least to ensure that if the furniture polish idea fails in service, an alternative can be knocked up easily and without too much trouble?

Pete.

 

[Ian@StEnochs]

Thanks Ian, I really fancy the furniture polish route!

The original idea behind this project was to take a very basic toy with a very limited play life, and future proof it: Hopefully creating something that could be enjoyed by adults too.

Pete.

I had to re wheel and reinforce a 'Sharna Shunter' ride on loco my eldest son had as a wee lad. It got so much use it wore out the original and the first set of replacement wheels. It also got a steel cradle to support the bearings which had completely worn out the under frame. When he finished with it, got too big to sit on it, it was only fit for recycling. Hope your engine does not suffer the same fate.

Ian.

 

[Peter Insole]

Oh well Ian, perhaps I am making this too complicated to do a proper "Trigger's broom" job?!

Anyway, although (as mentioned before) this is supposed to be a "found materials" project, working out how to finish off the chassis with running plates has been bothering me a bit.

Having completely dismissed the notion of laminating thin ply sheets into the curvy middle bits, I decided that metal is the only option.

Aluminium is preferred, being nice and easy to cut and drill. I had thought an old road sign might be ideal, but acquiring one would be a problem - most of them have been nicked already Ha, ha! Reading another post, I understand ally can be a bit of monkey to bend into the desired shape too?!

Yesterday afternoon I had a mad moment in Mackay's of Cambridge: I bought; yes, bought nine quid's worth of steel sheet!

I walked out of the shop feeling like the cat that got the cream, but reality had sunk in by the time I got home.

Nine whole nickers, and I have got to cut the stuff into three long, straight strips and then bend the bloomin wobbles into them to match the frame profiles!

Gulp!



This could be a lot of fun with an old rusty saw blade...?



This it what it should hopefully look like in the end - from a cropped part of a copyright photo - published for reference purposes only!

Pete.

 

[Scale7JB]

I reckon for a few quid if you found a local metal workshop they'd cut it for you to size.

JB.

 

[oldravendale]

Pete - I reckon if there's any one person on this site that can do it...........!

Brian

 

[Peter Insole]

Thank you JB, Brian and to Tom (for coming over to the hospital and giving me a bit of moral support this afternoon!) While I was in the waiting room I was rather unhealthily distracting myself by thinking of the parlous state of my one and only saw blade.

No, that is not a euphemism for my medical condition!

Here is the shameful evidence:



When I got home, I ruefully considered that I would not only need a nice new one to stand any chance of cutting through steel, but would have to buy a complete hacksaw as well - my old one being a single, non adjustable type.



Hang on a minute...

What's this little bit under the handle?



Daft 'ol so and so!

Had a look at my local DIY store website for single 300mm blades; WHAT! almost £8 EACH???

For someone else's silliness, they also sell "fully adjustable" Stanley saws, complete WITH blades for £6!!!

I don't think I can be bothered even trying to make sense of that, let alone saying it!

Pete.

 

[mickoo]

Screw fix, £4.99 for two.

Irwin Bi-Metal Hacksaw Blades 24Tpi 300mm Pack of 2

Toolstation, £2.60 for two.

Bi Metal Hacksaw Blade 300mm - 24 TPI - Toolstation

Or for the cost of a bacon butty next we meet at a show I can send these in the post tomorrow for a full breakfast I could send my spare adjustable Eclipse saw



Don't have any 32 TPI though so it's 24 TPI or nowt.

The little bit under the handle is a spigot to attach a clamp like tool to compress the saw to change the blade, only ever saw one, piece of more capable as finger remover. The other way is to stick the end on the ground and lean down on the handle and the blade will just pop off, put your foot on the end on the ground to stop it skipping out under pressure or you'll end up face planting the ground....it hurts....I know, it's one of the first tricks you learn real fast as an apprentice working on old school hand tools

The other way is to push it against a wall, turn the saw so that the blade spigots are facing down and push and the old blade will drop off, turn it over so the spigots are now facing upward, attach the blade to the far end spigot and place the other end over the spigot by the handle. It wont go on as it's not lined up, but as you push the holes will line up and gravity will do the rest

Mick D

 

[daifly]

Surely that spigot (with a corresponding spigot at t'other end) allows the blade to be mounted in a horizontal orientation?
Dave

 

[mickoo]

Surely that spigot (with a corresponding spigot at t'other end) allows the blade to be mounted in a horizontal orientation?
Dave

Well I never, you may be right, I've always been told (and shown) it was used with the tool to change the blade, makes sense though.

MD

 

[Peter Insole]

Thanks ever so much for your kind offer and most helpful advice Mick! We have a Screwfix in town, so I'll be nipping down there shortly. Their prices seem to be much more acceptable for what is essentially a one off task - I will not feel quite so guilty about smashing a cheap blade to bits later when trying to make it cut something that it wasn't designed for?!

For the enormous pleasure and incalculable encouragement that you provide with your postings here on WT, as well as your contribution to raising the standard of kit design, I reckon you deserve a bacon butty anyway!!!

Pete.

 

[Ian@StEnochs]

Hi Pete,
To cut a long length of sheet you will need to use the saw on its side with the blade turned. Adjustable frames permit the lugs to turn but the lugs on the bottom of your frame will let you do the same. For a long length of floppy plate you would be best sandwiching the steel between a couple of bits of wood with the edge near your cutting line so that it gets max support. Use the saw at a shallow angle to get as many teeth in contact with the metal as you can, especially important if your saw blade is a bit on the course side. A wee touch of lubricant helps too.
If the weather is cold and wet, as it is here today, a session sawing will get a bit of heat up. Enjoy the bacon buttie as a reward.
Ian.

 

[Scale7JB]

Well I never, you may be right, I've always been told (and shown) it was used with the tool to change the blade, makes sense though.

MD

Duh!

JB.