Finescale - of a sort?!

[Steph Dale]

I think this is the point I'd be investing in a nibbler and having done with it.

Pete,
I suspect we'll see you sometime in the early part of 2018 once you've cut that lot with a hacksaw and then filed the edges smooth.

Steph

 

[adrian]

I think this is the point I'd be investing in a nibbler and having done with it.

Or find a local metal working shop with a guillotine you can use.

 

[Monier]

Or find a local! I think this is the point I'd be investing in a nibbler and having done with it.

Looks like it's coming along nicely. I can't wait to see it when it's finished!

 

[Peter Insole]

O ye of little faith...!

...OK Steph, I confess, that is what I thought too!

The most difficult bit was trying to work out how on earth to clamp the steel sheet/strip wood combination in the bench vice. It ended up at a rather jaunty angle. I remembered to cut slow-w-w, letting the tool do all the work, and it went through like butter! The first go was a bit wobbly as it was slightly counter intuitive cutting at 40 odd degrees, and with the blade at 90 to the handle though!



Here is the first strip cut, which was now shallow enough to set level in the vice, and shown after a few draws with the file.

I had wandered a bit, but fortunately I remembered which side was the "waste side"!!!



The other face of my file has fine teeth, and are remarkably in quite reasonable nick!

Once again, the slower I worked, the faster it cut...

...Weird that 'innit?



I was indeed astonished at how sweet that steel worked - and without too much pain.

That was until I washed my hands a bit later - and the soap sharply drew my attention to a little slit in my thumb - presumably from the freshly filed edge?



There will be enough length to accommodate the central curved section, so will then need trimming down to a joint (directly above the leading wheel) with the forward section of the running plate.



All four sections cut and smoothed.

I've just got to drill all the rivet and bolt holes...

...and start bending...!

Pete.

 

[Peter Insole]

What has been frightening me is that the distinctive shape of the running plates is formed of two reverse curves on a single length. The curves must fit snugly on the frames to avoid daylight showing through. Starting the bend in fractionally the wrong place could be a nightmare to adjust without leaving unsightly creases or dinks?

Plenty of opportunity to muck up then?!

I had to stop worrying, and just get on with it, so descended the stairs to the dank, dark cellar...



I started by using yet another piece of that Oak, this time making a former.

Luckily, the curves are all the same radius, though the subtly blended "S" of the risers would be the real challenge!



Whew! That first joggle was right old struggle...!

I hadn't quite thought through the design of the former, so clamping the plate between it and a batten to grip the flat sections in the vice turned into quite a juggling act!

Having to continuously undo it and offer it up to the loco, then trying to get it set again without dropping it all on the floor, or even worse; pinching a digit in the closing jaws, raised a bit of a sweat!

Then I had to commence that critical forward bend.

The stage finally reached in the above picture was followed by a brief abandonment for a sorely needed cuppa!

Only mildly refreshed and rested, the final bend of the first side was wrestled and beaten (lightly) into submission...



Although I think the front riser still needs tweaking a bit on the outside edges to better match the rear, at least the whole shebang fits without rattling.

A right Royal pain in the doodah was having to do it all again on the right hand side!



I think many would agree that I am an inveterate mutterer. By the time both plates and all eight bends were done, I imagine the whole street could have heard me loudly declare;

"I never..., never..., EVER want to do that ever again... Nope..., not no never again...!"



Now it sits, all twinkling nicely in the evening lights...

...Never again?... Hmm..., I found myself thinking;

"next time, I'll sort out the design of the former, and then maybe............!"

Pete.

 

[Steph Dale]

Pete,

Nicely done! I've never been more pleased I was wrong

Steph

 

[ceejaydee]

Very smart bit of platework there Peter

 

[Peter Insole]

Thanks Steph and Chris.

I cannot begin to describe my relief that it came out OK!

That curvy running plate is such a distinctive feature of the engine, and there was clearly no alternative material or method available that would allow me to avoid my fears.

I had even considered leaving it for (much) later, until I realised that the boiler and many of it's fittings are mounted directly on top of it!

All previous attempts at working with metal in much smaller scales had usually ended in tears. Any appearance of success was achieved only by the production of a mountain of waste! Every time I have a rummage through my scrap box, I find too many reminders of failure!

Perhaps it was the size of the parts required that led me to assume that the problems were proportionally magnified...?!

Pete.

 

[Tom Insole]

Looks like you've done a good job of those bends! maybe it's the scale that's made it a little less fiddly?

Can't wait to see it all in situ next time I visit. Getting closer to the point I bet some proper ref shots are needed. (we'll have to get our diaries out next time I'm over to sort out a date to make a day trip).

 

[Peter Insole]

Not much has been done on the engine lately as things have become a bit chaotic around here!

We have had the little man with us quite a lot, so it has been difficult to concentrate. On Thursday afternoon, his mummy and daddy suddenly arrived, then disappeared again in a bit of a hurry. Sensing that something was awry, the boy became rather uncharacteristically sullen. Grandma whispered in his ear as he sat quietly on her lap;

"Looks like you'll have your little baby sister very soon"

"No", he mumbled.

"Don't you want a little sister?".

"No", he paused, and then declared; "I want my TRAIN!"

Oh dear! What have I done?!

Anyway, the new boiler for the loco has been delivered at last!



After a long search for an offcut of stout 8'' diameter cardboard core tube, I was left with no alternative to purchasing one off the shelf.

The only type available of that size, and at a reasonable price was a postal tube.

My only concerns about that were the minimum length of 32" (I only needed 17" for the barrel so there would be a fair amount of waste) and that the wall thickness was a mere 3mm!

My fear that it would be a bit flimsy were confirmed, but after cutting it to length, I realised that by slitting and removing a thin strip from the waste, the reduced diameter section could be snugly squeezed inside the outer. The slightly shorter inner has left a rebate, which will be ideal for locating and gluing an MDF smokebox front and backhead!

While the resulting 6mm thickness is much more satisfactory, I will still be adding some extra wooden ribs and shaped plates internally to provide firm support for the chimney, saddle tank, steam manifold and other boiler fittings, as previously intended.

Not so long ago, I disposed of an old broken tumble-dryer at our local recycling centre. Now thinking about it, if I had cut some of the very thin steel sheet from the sides, it could have provided the perfect material for cladding and boiler bands.

Hindsight and all that...!

Pete.

 

[Peter Insole]

And now for a conundrum...

Tom, myself and our long suffering better halves had a fabulous day at the NRM, York yesterday!

Of course, my own particular object of interest for our visit was the little Horwich "Wren", and I had been very much looking forward to getting up close and personal with it! Up until now I have only been able to use published "general arrangement" drawings (with all the risks of inaccuracy) and some photo's to make the model, so I was slightly anxious of what I might find after having waited so long before going to see the real thing? I must say that the staff were very helpful and accommodating, allowing us full access. This was especially pleasing bearing in mind that I had not got round to making a formal request beforehand!

There was an awful lot of "Ooh-er, look at this?" and "Ah-hah, so THAT's how it goes!" going on in the foyer that day!

After having a thoroughly fine time taking loads of reference photo's, we withdrew to have our picnic lunch. As we munched and chatted, I reviewed the results...

...and had a surprise!

As far as I am aware, the Lancashire and Yorkshire Railway loco livery - after the establishment of Horwich Works anyway - was BLACK.

The 18" engines remained black to the end too! After the first three were modified, and the other five were home built, all had carried "Goods Engine" black with plain red lining and a crest on the saddle tanks. Also, as mentioned in a previous post; I am confident that the red headstocks were black edged with fine white border lining .

After the company was merged with the LNWR, and then shortly thereafter subsumed into the LMS, the only change to the livery was the removal of all fussy embellishments!

Under early BR, "Wren" (by then the only survivor) was given a lick of paint - into standard "Mixed Traffic" black, with LNWR style lining and "Cycling Lion" transfer!

Shortly before withdrawal and storage, her saddle tank was replaced with a new welded one. It would appear that the lining and transfer only was lost as she returned to plain all over BLACK again?

The engine was "restored" to a fanciful and completely incorrect full LYR "passenger" black livery for display at Clapham. It subsequently was given another tidy up for removal to York?

Although the paintwork presents a beautiful finish, it was only applied where readily visible to the public. The engine otherwise remains exactly in as-withdrawn condition in every other area!

Most of my photographs of those less accessible areas were taken with flash, so it was fortuitous that I decided to review my shots before leaving the NRM?

This then is what I found...



Aaaaahhhh.................?

...Now that IS interesting...?!

Pete.

 

[Heather Kay]

Peter, I don't know if you have access to the Essery/Jenkinson OPC volume on the LYR and LNWR locos of the LMS?

It has opposite side views of Mouse and Wren, the latter with its tender truck. If you think they might be useful, I'm happy to snap them and share them privately with you to avoid copyright issues on a public forum.

Interestingly, both locos are shown as plain black. Mouse is photographed in 1928, while Wren is in 1953. The text claims they all carried LYR livery until the LMS repainted them - and if 1928 is to be believed, that happened fairly quickly after the Grouping.

 

[InvernessTMD]

Green?

 

[Steph Dale]

Green?

Unless Peter was wearing a particularly bright green sweater, and assuming the camera had been white balanced correctly; yes, I see it too...

Steph

 

[Peter Insole]

Thanks for your offer Heather, I would be very grateful for any reference pics that are available! I have not got the OPC volume, only having glanced at it on a bookstall at the Kettering show - I was being as mean and penny-pinching as ever!

I have found images of "Dot", "Fly" and "Midget" that clearly show the simpler Goods Engine livery ( a limited amount of plain double red lining) rather than the generally accepted "passenger" version of the rather fulsome and fancy two thin white and broad red lines on the tank and boiler bands (as Wren has erroneously carried since restoration!)

But whatever, I had indeed always assumed that BLACK was the only appropriate livery for those little engines?

You could imagine my surprise to find that blistered BR GREEN, clearly showing through the thin coats of black (restoration era) paint, underneath the boiler and saddle tank?

There must be an explanation for that stuff being there, but I fear that it will have to remain an unsolved mystery for us now?!

I love this sort of thing, and discovering "evidence" that might upset theories or accepted wisdom - including my own! - is very satisfying!

Pete.

 

[Peter Insole]

My first thought was that there must have been an issue with the white balance too Steph!

We all rushed back to the foyer to investigate "by eye". Careful examination revealed that it was genuine green paint that we were looking at!

Pete.

 

[Heather Kay]

I can only assume there were some tins of BR green left lying about! It sort of goes to show you should never trust even the best sources!

I'll pop the images to you in a personal message, Peter. Only too happy to help.

 

[Peter Insole]

Thank you again Heather!

The thought had occurred to me that the old riveted saddle tank had presumably rotted beyond redemption, and that it required complete replacement rather than the usual and quite common application of patch plates? Is it likely that the original boiler cladding sheets had gone the same way, especially in the vicinity of the same?

A diminishing number of main line steam locomotives were still receiving overhauls at Horwich at the time, so would it be reasonable to assume that a couple of small, good offcuts from damaged sheets were reclaimed to clad Wren's tiny boiler and replace her tank?

Pete.

PS. Many thanks for the PM Heather: I hadn't heard that bit about the strong-box! I hope my grandson doesn't find out about the wages - he will want paying for his "riveting" work!

 

[Tom Insole]

I am really glad to of taken Dad to see his big brother to the little pride and joy in full swing production.. Guessing there really will be no stopping now that we've got a good hours worth of photo's drawing some interesting looks, comments and glances.

I've got to say I loved seeing all the smiles and excitement and dread to think how excited Ethen would get seeing Wren... Would it be as much as Dad is the question?

I'll elaborate to why I say this, When we arrived we had to have our little cuppa break after a long drive up the A1 and as we sat in the great hall Dad was itching to go exploring all the locos, and I know one in particular that was top of the list (we've all guessed it too).

Once we were fed and watered we head over and the excitement turned into a very vast smile followed by a few photos and then I think the excitement got a bit much and dad ended up like this...



I mean he said he was taking photos.. but I think it was just a quick power nap!

in all honesty though it was great fun getting time to have a proper look and take some photos and my next one shows a little deception of how it is a lot bigger than the model in the making,



and to finish up adding lots of images of the artist and the real deal we had to tell Dad before we left that he couldn't take it home.. although it IS smaller than the other loco's it still wouldn't fit in my boot!

 

[Eastsidepilot]

Probably nothing to do with it but there is a photo of "Dot" here Transport Illustrated: The Narrow Gauge Railway Museum which shows it in a green livery, was this the manufacturers livery ?

Col.