4mm Ivatt Class 2, 2-6-2 tank in P4

[LarryG]

Such is life in the smaller scales ha ha. Having seen what you can do in 4mm/P4, I am sure you could do the same in 0 gauge with much less effort. You dont have to worry about the track gauge for starters. I would love to see the Delph Donkey in 7mm, so if you do make the move before I peg-it, I'll consider having some 7mm push pull coaches etched.

 

[P A D]

Hi Larry,
I agree. The problem is, the only 7mm Ivatt 2 6 2 available is the less than perfect DJH kit. I believe the main issue with it is the width of the cab door/lookout opening, which is not easy to overcome. However, it may be possible and seeing what Dave can do in 4mm, I'm sure he would come up with something.

I'll have to check my Oakville version and see how that measures up against the drawing. It was my baptism of fire in etched kit building, but if I could pick one up cheap I would upgrade it with Griffin castings and see what sort of a fist I could make of it now that I have a few more builds under my belt. You never know we may get lucky at some point and Finney 7 will develop one! .

Dave, sorry to hear about your trials and tribulations with the missing bush and sorry for the slight deviation from topic.

Cheers,
Peter

 

[LarryG]

I remember the early DJH O gauge Ivatt's had cylinders that stuck out a mile. 7mm has grown up a lot since those days, but I expect some kits can be seen as scratch aids to be sorted out by those who can.

Putting a beautiful P4 chassis under a very poor RTR body is a real shame. The Bachmann Ivatt 2-6-0 body shows how far behind this firm's 2-6-2T body is by today's standards.

 

[Dave Holt]

Larry & Peter,
Thanks for your comments and suggestions. With the time and effort I've expended on my 4 mm stuff, there's no chance of me changing to 7 mm. Anyway, I'm too old to start again and hope to achieve very much.
Funnily enough, though, I was discussing a 7 mm 2-6-2 tank kit this weekend - but it was a Lynton & Barnstaple Manning Wardle! I would probably build it to 14 mm gauge, as a showcase model.
I fully agree that the Bachmann body is poor by today's RTR standards, but the basic dimensions and rivet pattern are actually spot on, so I'll have to see what improvements and embellishments can be made to make it fit to go on the chassis. I'm anticipating rather a lot of work.
Dave.

 

[Dave Holt]

This loco has been in abeyance sine June 2019, or so it seems. Obviously, a rebuilt Royal Scot thingy has got in the way, but that doesn't account for the whole period, so I'm not sure what else I have or haven't done in the mean time (could be a Black 5 involved?). Actually, the chassis has been completely stripped to component parts and degreased/cleaned ready for painting, currently in a tub.


Today, I started to think about the body and have decided to stick with the Bachmann boiler, having flirted with the idea of replacing it with a spare DJH white metal example. Still not sure whether to replace the chimney or not. However, I did make a start on thinning down the plastic moulding round the cab openings and side windows using a scalpel blade applied with lots of care. OK so far.
Dave.

 

[Dave Holt]

The Bachmann Ivatt tank body is very good, dimensionally, but is a bit basic by modern RTR standards. One aspect which really can't be corrected without major work, such as etched overlays, is the lack of crisp corners to the moulding. This will very much have to be a layout loco to be viewed at a distance.
Besides the inevitable thick plastic moulding, visible at window and cab openings, one of the most glaring errors is that the cab doors are not recessed far enough and have poor, half-relief, hand rails and stanchions. This problem is shown in these photos.

The latter shot shows the rearmost window opening after thinning of the over-scale edges. The back edge of the cab opening has also been thinned down, but the front left as is, as the real locos had a sort of draught screen there.
To try to improve the cab door arrangement, I had some etched components made to better represent the recess and facilitate proper hand rail stanchions and rails. This requires the moulded door to be removed and the next shot shows the basic removal and the two new etched replacements.

Quite a bit more filing required to let the etches fit into the opening. Just visible through the cab opening is the top edge of the frames, which gives an idea of the height of the new cab floor, yet to be made. The floor will carry front and rear bulkheads, firebox back-head, reverser, etc.
Dave.

 

[LarryG]

Dave, I fitted Bachmann's Ivatt Class 2 2-6-0 boiler to my tanks. It is a vast improvement over the 2-6-2 boiler with better chimney, dome and smokebox door etc...



In fact I also used the 2-6-0 chassis which had just been upgraded at the time. Obviously you wont need it...

 

[Dave Holt]

Yes, Larry, the boiler unit from the later 2-6-0 does look much better than the original tank model. At an earlier stage this might have been a good option, but the finished chassis has been made to fit to the tank front footplate, so it could only be the boiler above the saddle which could be exchanged. I'm not overly confident of achieving this surgery in a satisfactory manner, so I'm leaning towards retaining the original boiler. I've already replaced the dome with a cast W/M item and am now thinking i might do the same with the chimney. Both smokebox doors (and the cast W/M one I considered) have the hinge straps too far apart, leaving insufficient space below for the shed plate with its "SC" indication at the bottom. I had this same issue with the BR Standard tank'
Dave.

 

[Dave Holt]

The new recessed doorway has been prepared and loosely tried in position after filing the cab opening. I'm quite pleased with the fit I've achieved considering my filing of the plastic was a bit roughty-tuffty.
Probably ought to use a 5 minute epoxy to fix in positions as this will give a bit of adjustment time compared with an isocyanate superglue.

Let's hope the other side goes as well.
Dave.

 

[john lewsey]

Hi Dave
Are there any photos of your layout
John

 

[Dave Holt]

John,
I've posted some stuff in the "Layouts" section entitled "Holt (ex-Delph)...". The last entry was in November 2021, so you'll have to search back a bit. Will add further instalments in due course, although the layout is nowhere near finished.
Dave.

 

[Dave Holt]

Not too much actual progress since the last update, although lots of pondering and planning seems to have taken place. Work has been done on the cab floor, front and rear. After making the cab rear, with its representation of the coal doors, cupboards, etc., I discovered that I had made a major error in scaling down the dimensions from the LMS drawing. as a result, I made the coal doors and coal opening 10 mm wide instead of 8 mm. The hand brake column and coal watering /pet pipe assembly were also placed too far from the centre line.
By careful unsoldering and re-positioning these latter items, I have managed to partially recover the situation. I'll just have to live with the coal door issue. In the gloom of the enclosed cab the error should not be too apparent.
Here's the modified part ready to fit when the time comes.

Boiler back head detailing and reverser stand next.
Dave.

 

[john lewsey]

Nice work as usual Dave

 

[Dave Holt]

Thanks, John.
I have made some progress with the boiler backhead. The starting point was a Comet W/M casting for an Ivatt Class 2. I wasn't over impressed with the moulded detail and decided to file it all off except the fire hole doors. New items are being created from a selection of brass wire, tube, sections, handrail knobs and bits of N/S salvaged from the Scot etches.
So far, I made and fitted representations of the blower, sanding valve arrangement, steam manifold and injector steam pipes; all as shown below.

I've also made, but not fitted the water level gauges and the various pressure and vacuum gauges and their mounting plates.
Still to do are the ejector steam valves and drivers brake valve and train vacuum pipe, various control valve hand-wheels and the regulator handle.
To be honest, it's all a bit crude - no flanges on the manifold, for instance, but inside the enclosed cab it shouldn't be too obvious.
Dave.

 

[Dave Holt]

The level gauges, together with their drains, the carriage warming apparatus (less its drain) and the pressure and vacuum gauges and mountings have all now been added.

Work on the backhead is now suspended awaiting supplies of fine tube from Eileens. I have used 0.5 mm x 0.3 mm tube quite extensively in the fittings and have misplaced the material, hence the need to replenish the stock.
Of course, there's the reverser and cab seats that can be done in the meantime.
Dave.

 

[Dave Holt]

A bit more detail has been added to the backhead. The steam heating apparatus, to the right of the manifold, has had its drain fitted. Further down the RH side is the automatic blow-down valve with its discharge pipe and steam actuating connection to the two injector steam pipes.
All-in-all, not much to show for several work sessions, but it is rather fiddly stuff and I was awaiting fresh supplies of fine tube. Very prompt service from Eileen's.

Better move across the the LH side next to address the brake equipment.
Dave.

 

[Dave Holt]

Most of the drivers brake valve and associated pipework have been made and fitted. Just the steam brake actuating lever and main steam feed to do.
I have to confess, I didn't drill the bonnet of the vacuum relief valve to represent the perforations of the real thing - a case of "not getting it all right"?

Brake ejector steam valves next.
Dave.

 

[Mike Garwood]

Fair play Dave...

Mike

 

[Dave Holt]

The brake arrangements have been completed and the valve hand-wheels (spare from the Scot kit) fitted. So, apart from the regulator handle, the back-head is now complete and ready to be attached to the cab floor/front.

Dave.

 

[Dave Holt]

I wonder if anyone can help?
The loco I'm modelling was motor, or push-pull, fitted. I imagine there must have been some additional equipment in the cab compared with the non-fitted locos. In some published on-board photos (of the BR standard version) I can see a sizeable electrical box located below the forward side window on the driver's side and also a small lever working in a quadrant in the fore-aft plane just to the rear of the electrical box. Perhaps the lever was part of the bell code equipment as it looks too flimsy to be anything mechanical.
There must also have been a bell, and some device to isolate the vacuum controlled regulator in the full open position when the loco was being driven from the cab using the manual regulator.
Has anyone information about what this extra equipment looked like and where it was located?
Dave.