4mm Ivatt Class 2, 2-6-2 tank in P4
- Thread starter Dave Holt
- Start date
Dave Holt
Western Thunderer
Tim.
Glad to have been an inspiration.
For a non-push-pull fitted loco, you might consider the hybrid that Larry Goddard did using the Bachmann tank for the tanks, cab and bunker, but replacing the boiler and front footplate from the 2-6-0 tender loco. His finished model looked far better than the original Bachmann tank. He posted a photo further back in this thread (post No. 27 on page 2) and might have put stuff in his own posts. I might well have gone down that route but I had already finished the P4 chassis to fit the tank loco and couldn't face the prospect of trying to modify it to fit the new front end, plus having to graft on the VCR control gear and steam pipes and the brake ejector so decided to stick with the base tank body.
Your earlier question about the chimney has started me reconsidering possible replacement but it would probably have to be a one-off commission and no doubt cost more than the rest of the loco put together.
Good luck with yours.
Dave.
Glad to have been an inspiration.
For a non-push-pull fitted loco, you might consider the hybrid that Larry Goddard did using the Bachmann tank for the tanks, cab and bunker, but replacing the boiler and front footplate from the 2-6-0 tender loco. His finished model looked far better than the original Bachmann tank. He posted a photo further back in this thread (post No. 27 on page 2) and might have put stuff in his own posts. I might well have gone down that route but I had already finished the P4 chassis to fit the tank loco and couldn't face the prospect of trying to modify it to fit the new front end, plus having to graft on the VCR control gear and steam pipes and the brake ejector so decided to stick with the base tank body.
Your earlier question about the chimney has started me reconsidering possible replacement but it would probably have to be a one-off commission and no doubt cost more than the rest of the loco put together.
Good luck with yours.
Dave.
Dave Holt
Western Thunderer
Front lamp irons and grab handles it was. I discovered the lamp iron already made up (from Masokits etches, I believe), presumably much earlier in this project or for some other loco but not used. Anyway, it saved some time. Mind you, I managed to temporarily loose one on the work tray, resulting in a frantic search for some minutes. All safely fixed, now.
The handles were bent up from 0.33 mm brass wire. One fitted the pre-drilled holes in the footplate perfectly, the other, well, attempt number 3 or 4, and then not perfect.
Once the Loctite 480 has fully cured, I need to grind off the protruding mounting stalks under the front footplate, otherwise they will interfere with the front step mountings on the chassis.
Not sure what's next as I'm waiting for some custom etches and 3D prints to be done.
Could always paint the chassis, I suppose.
Dave.
The handles were bent up from 0.33 mm brass wire. One fitted the pre-drilled holes in the footplate perfectly, the other, well, attempt number 3 or 4, and then not perfect.
Once the Loctite 480 has fully cured, I need to grind off the protruding mounting stalks under the front footplate, otherwise they will interfere with the front step mountings on the chassis.
Not sure what's next as I'm waiting for some custom etches and 3D prints to be done.
Could always paint the chassis, I suppose.
Dave.
Nick C
Western Thunderer
Unlikely, I'd have thought - I'd expect them to finish it as a SR allocated example (as indeed is 41312)
Dave Holt
Western Thunderer
Nick, I hope you're wrong. All the BR Standards were built VCR fitted and any Souther allocations that had the equipment removed must have been very late in the day and made them non-standard.
Push-pull fitted Ivatt tanks had two vacuum pipes/hoses at each end. One being the normal train brake, the other being the VCR (vacuum controlled regulator) control pipe.
I found some quite nice cast brass stand-pipe/hoses with four identical items on one sprue. I have no idea who's make they are but the pipe diameter (0.8 mm) and hose length were correct but the stand-pipe height was longer than required. The front and rear pipes are of different heights but both could be formed by straightening and then re-bending the upright pipe. Three went to plan but, unfortunately, I managed to bend the second rear pipe in the wrong place and, during re-straightening, the pipe snapped off, presumably being quite brittle and work hardened by the bending. I managed to drill the broken end, insert a peg and fit a length of 0.8 mm brass tube. This enabled the new pipe to be bent and the situation recovered. The joint isn't perfect but is acceptable and at least the rest of the pipe matches the others.
The pipes have been temporarily tried in place, as shown below. Final tweaking and fitting cannot take place till the support brackets have been made and, due to access considerations, till after the push-pull electric jumper cables have been fitted.
Not readily visible is the removal of the stunted Bachmann tank lifting lugs. The flat plate attachments on the tanks have been retained and better scale representations of the sloping parts will be fitted into pre-drilled holes.
Still managing to avoid that painting!
Dave.
Push-pull fitted Ivatt tanks had two vacuum pipes/hoses at each end. One being the normal train brake, the other being the VCR (vacuum controlled regulator) control pipe.
I found some quite nice cast brass stand-pipe/hoses with four identical items on one sprue. I have no idea who's make they are but the pipe diameter (0.8 mm) and hose length were correct but the stand-pipe height was longer than required. The front and rear pipes are of different heights but both could be formed by straightening and then re-bending the upright pipe. Three went to plan but, unfortunately, I managed to bend the second rear pipe in the wrong place and, during re-straightening, the pipe snapped off, presumably being quite brittle and work hardened by the bending. I managed to drill the broken end, insert a peg and fit a length of 0.8 mm brass tube. This enabled the new pipe to be bent and the situation recovered. The joint isn't perfect but is acceptable and at least the rest of the pipe matches the others.
The pipes have been temporarily tried in place, as shown below. Final tweaking and fitting cannot take place till the support brackets have been made and, due to access considerations, till after the push-pull electric jumper cables have been fitted.
Not readily visible is the removal of the stunted Bachmann tank lifting lugs. The flat plate attachments on the tanks have been retained and better scale representations of the sloping parts will be fitted into pre-drilled holes.
Still managing to avoid that painting!
Dave.
Nick C
Western Thunderer
I didn't know that were all fitted - the photo on This page of 84024 at Peasmarsh Junction looks like it's fitted with part of the gear, but not all of it? It'd be useless on the Southern as SR PP stock used air control, not vac. There's a photo in the Middleton Press album of an Ivatt on the Horsham-Guildford with VCR gear though...
Dave Holt
Western Thunderer
Nick.
Thanks for the link - that's a fantastic site with loads of interesting photos, and not just of locos.
I knew that numerous Ivatt 2 tanks worked on the SR and were either not VCR fitted or had it removed and the outside steam pipes replaced with normal sloping ones (this might also have happened to some non-southern allocated locos after the demise of push-pull trains), but I hadn't appreciated that BR standard versions also moved south. As you say, 84024 has had all the vacuum operating gear removed, but the original VCR outside steam pipes are still there.
Dave.
Thanks for the link - that's a fantastic site with loads of interesting photos, and not just of locos.
I knew that numerous Ivatt 2 tanks worked on the SR and were either not VCR fitted or had it removed and the outside steam pipes replaced with normal sloping ones (this might also have happened to some non-southern allocated locos after the demise of push-pull trains), but I hadn't appreciated that BR standard versions also moved south. As you say, 84024 has had all the vacuum operating gear removed, but the original VCR outside steam pipes are still there.
Dave.
Nick C
Western Thunderer
It's really good - I've got the book too...
I'm pretty sure the batch of Ivatts built for the SR never had it, but there's also photos of locos from other batches on Southern routes, so presumably they moved around. They were never fitted with air PP gear either, that being just the domain of the various 0-4-4 tanks in BR days.
I'm pretty sure the batch of Ivatts built for the SR never had it, but there's also photos of locos from other batches on Southern routes, so presumably they moved around. They were never fitted with air PP gear either, that being just the domain of the various 0-4-4 tanks in BR days.
Dave, I know you had a few chimneys and domes to try out on this one, and wondered if you were aware that Branchlines do them? I have no idea of their fidelity to the prototype, but noticed them when browsing a catalogue picked up at Expo EM and thought of your model. They claim to do an LMS chimney, and both early and late BR ones, plus a (quote) "correct" dome.
Dave Holt
Western Thunderer
Finally, after years of shilly-shallying about and agonising over what to do for best, I've finally bitten the bullet and replaced the Bachmann moulded chimney and replaced it with a custom made brass replacement. The new chimney is a lovely work of art and was made for me by Jeremy Suter.
Here is the loco with its new chimney proudly displayed.
Dave.
Here is the loco with its new chimney proudly displayed.
Dave.
Dave Holt
Western Thunderer
Basic painting of the chassis has been undertaken using enamels in various mixes of black, gunmetal (metalcote) and leather. Will need some further work to bring out highlights and harmonise with the weathered body, in due course. Once fully dried, the chassis components have been re-assembled, hopefully for the final time.
As usual, things didn't go entirely to plan. I managed to loose a front crankpin retaining bush. After a fruitless search for an hour or so, a replacement was created in about half the time the following morning.
This was also the first time that the chassis, complete with motor, was fitted into the body since the cab interior was in situ. Unfortunately, the lower portion of the cab front sheet was just touching the back end of the motor, not enough to prevent assembly, but enough to jam up the suspension movement. Some judicious work with a cutting disc in a mini-drill created enough clearance to allow free movement.
Black 5 next?
Dave.
As usual, things didn't go entirely to plan. I managed to loose a front crankpin retaining bush. After a fruitless search for an hour or so, a replacement was created in about half the time the following morning.
This was also the first time that the chassis, complete with motor, was fitted into the body since the cab interior was in situ. Unfortunately, the lower portion of the cab front sheet was just touching the back end of the motor, not enough to prevent assembly, but enough to jam up the suspension movement. Some judicious work with a cutting disc in a mini-drill created enough clearance to allow free movement.
Black 5 next?
Dave.
James Spooner
Western Thunderer
That is coming together really well!
regards
Nigel
regards
Nigel
Mike Garwood
Western Thunderer
Fabulous work Dave, completely inspiring!
Mike
Mike
Dave Holt
Western Thunderer
Thanks, Nigel & Mike.
The 2-6-2 tanks were fitted with standard LMS square base, parallel body buffers but having 18" rather than the normal 16" heads. The ones already fitted to the model are Gibson items with the smaller head. No-one seems to do suitable 18" heads other than coach buffers and these have too small a shank behind the head. Luckily, I had some brass tube with the exact bore and O/D to convert the coach buffer heads to fit the loco bodies, so short lengths have been fixed to the heads to this end.
The brass shanks need to be blackened before fitting.
Dave.
The 2-6-2 tanks were fitted with standard LMS square base, parallel body buffers but having 18" rather than the normal 16" heads. The ones already fitted to the model are Gibson items with the smaller head. No-one seems to do suitable 18" heads other than coach buffers and these have too small a shank behind the head. Luckily, I had some brass tube with the exact bore and O/D to convert the coach buffer heads to fit the loco bodies, so short lengths have been fixed to the heads to this end.
The brass shanks need to be blackened before fitting.
Dave.
