Latest project: ex-LNER C13, No. 67421

[Dave Holt]

Brian.
Although I pressed out a few rivets, on plain sheet, using a scriber, where half etched holes are provided on the back of etched parts, I normally use a rivet embossing tool which is a length of threaded bar, with adjusting nuts and a blunt point at the bottom, and a weight that is raised to the upper nut and allowed to drop, the shock load impressing the rivet. Using this ensures the same load is applied to every rivet in a pattern, so giving consistent indents. Sorry, i can't remember who I bought it from - might have been London Road Models or the late lamented, and much missed, Eileen's.
This is what it looks like.


Not a huge amount of work on the loco but quite transformative, I think. The rivetted smokebox wrapper has been fitted and trimmed to clear the loco frames. I was rather pleased that the wrapper length that I calculated for the key-hole shape proved to be accurate within a fraction of a millimetre.
The bottom of the wrapper will be hidden behind the top portion of the frames, which are the subject of further etched work.
Dave.

 

[bri.s]

Thankyou once again Dave
Ill have a look around and pick one of those up

Regards

Brian

 

[Dave Holt]

Next few bits added. Looking even more like a mid 1950s BR C13, now.

Dave.

 

[Lancastrian]

I shall be pleased to be given the relevant catalogue references....

Peter and I were at the NRM in March of this year and we looked at the GCR contractor rolls... and in many cases, especially the 4-4-2T, the GA and frame plan drawings have been removed from the relevant roll. So, no, the required 4-4-2T drawings are not at the NRM.

Hi,

That's not unusual at present with the NRM. If the drawings were out for scanning, a green slip should have been with the roll. Scanning is now done in house so the drawings can be retrieved if this is the case.
More worrying are drawings which are not in the designated rolls. Two options here.
1. They are misplaced. It seems there are boxes and boxes of drawings which contain drawings which are all mixed up from when scanning was done by the University.
2. They've been removed from the premises of either the NRM, or their previous abode in London.

I've been looking for certain 8F drawings for a while now, and although catalogued in the Derby series, they seem to be missing, as are a number of drawings from the Crewe and Horwich series. I had a chat with one of the archivists earlier this month and he is going to do a search for me. Some of the missing original drawings though are included in the LMS Locomotive Profile book!

 

[Dave Holt]

If it adds anything, the drawings supplied were sent as TIF files and I had them printed out by a local print shop. They are marked as being from the Oxford Publishing catalogue.
Dave.

 

[Dave Holt]

The front handrail presented a couple of challenges. First, due to the step between the smokebox and boiler, different length stanchions are required. Needless to say, the required lengths didn't match commercially available items. I used "short" ones on the smokebox and had some "shoulder-less" examples that I could set into 1 mm O/D tube soldered to the boiler and set the stand-out to make the handrail parallel with the boiler clothing.
The other challenge was just the shape of the handrail itself, being the continuous type linking the sides in a sweep over the front of the smokebox. I drew the required shape on paper and tried to use it to locate the side bends. Sadly, this didn't prove particularly effective and considerable tweaking was needed to get an acceptable result.
The resultant rail is acceptable even if not perfectly to prototype.
The front stanchion and rail are loose at the moment.
On the left hand side, the two stanchions close together straddle the push-pull vacuum regulator casing, so a gap in the rail will be made but I thought it would be easier to get good alignment by making the rail continuous initially.
Dave.

 

[Dave Holt]

Not too much progress lately, what with two visits to the NEC (Bike Show and Warley), full size loco work, band practice and domestic duties. However, some work has been done on the cab roof and getting it to fit nicely. These photos show work so far with the roof just loosely placed.

Locating strips have been attached underneath and the spectacle plates trimmed slightly to better suit the roof radius. At the corners, brass tube has been used to represent the tank vent pipes. Originally, these had fittings on top to prevent ingress of debris, but by the period modelled, these had gone leaving three short and one longer plain projections.
The whistle was made from various diameters of tube on a wire armature. The two projections either side of the whistle form part of the remote whistle operating apparatus fitted to push-pull fitted locos, although it appears to be disused by the mid 50s.
The thickness of the central raised roof portion made soldering difficult with 145 solder freezing even with my iron set to 400. Perhaps a small blow torch would have helped.
Dave.

 

[Dave Holt]

Thinking about how the remote whistle mechanism would work in practice, I realised that the simple cross-shaft in two supports would not have worked for cord pull from both directions, although this simple arrangement was shown on the only drawing I have that shows the mechanism at all.
As a result, the arrangement was altered to have two shorter cross shafts, each operating its own crank connected to the whistle valve in the cab. The revised version is seen here. There are two cord guide posts still to fit, one each end of the cab roof.

Dave.

 

[Dave Holt]

I've reached a sort of natural break point with the C13 whilst I wait for some further etched and 3D printed detailing parts. So, the loco has been reassembled and is shown in its most complete form to date.

Dave.

 

[Chas Levin]

Gorgeous!

 

[45609]

Looks lovely Dave. Will look forward to seeing that next time you're done my way. Will it be plain black or MT lined?

Cheers...Morgan

 

[bri.s]

Very nice work Dave

Regards

Brian

 

[Dave Holt]

Thanks for the kind comments.

Morgan, the loco was fully lined black, early emblem, but in the period modelled, it was so filthy that the lining was virtually invisible. That will be the condition aimed for.

Dave.

 

[Jol Wilkinson]

The rivet embossing tool could be from LRM or Eileen's, as John at LRM used to supply them. Until that is Derek Russan found out who was making them for LRM and went direct. The design was from the late John Hayes, a fellow member of the S4 North London Group with John Redrup.

 

[David Mylchreest]

I have tried the LRM embossing tool and just couldn't get it to work consistently. I have used the GW Models design with consistent success.

 

[LarryG]

Hi Dave, Can't say I remember seeing lining on the 4-4-2T's that worked the OA&GB trains, so maybe you are right in saying it was under the grime. I like the lower tank plating, which was so typical of repairs. Re. handrails stansions, I always stuck with fine split pins because they looked less clunky than brass handrail knobs. Also, their length could be adjusted to suit smokeboxes and boilers.

 

[David Mylchreest]

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This is a fairly common photo taken at Winsford & Over Station in 1952. The loco (which was used on the OA&GB Rly) has clearly been cleaned up for an RCTS tour and there is no sign I can see of lining.
Bill Bedford does scratch aid kits for the rolling stock

 

[LarryG]

Google brought forth not one C13 in BR lined livery. Also nothing in Locomotives of the LNER Part 7 either. This book states that lining was applied by BR but not in their later days. Very faint traces of lining on 67421 in my Delph book.

I never remember seeing lining even in the early 1950's although I do remember lots of detail and colour of the GCR push-pull coaches etc.......Weird innit haha....

Last train to Oldham Clegg Street. Ex. GCR non-corridor 2nd leading.

 

[45609]

There’s a couple of photos of 67420 in Yeadons #33 with lining on pages 72 & 73. There is also some commentary in the photo captions to say that 67412/8/9 & 39 were some of the others lined out in the early 50s.

On page 73 there’s also a nice photo of Dave’s subject, 67421, with all the repair plating shown. No date but likely to be post 1957. It’s impossible to see any lining.

 

[Dave Holt]

Thanks for the various thoughts on C13 livery in the 1950s BR era.

This looks suspiciously like lined black to me. Don't know the origins of the photo but it was supplied to me by Jeremy Suter. Taken at Gorton and dated 1951.
As Larry says, there's just the slightest trace of the tank lining visible in a photo taken at Oldham Clegg Street in the mid to late 50s, published in his Delph book.
Dave.