Mickoo's American Modelling Empire

[Big Train James]

The operating flapper on the stack only matters if you're using a smoke unit. I somehow have a hard time imagining you doing that. But I could be wrong.

 

[mickoo]

The operating flapper on the stack only matters if you're using a smoke unit. I somehow have a hard time imagining you doing that. But I could be wrong.

You're not

I was thinking resale value but have since firmed my resolved to keep. If you're 'playing trains' then certainly one would be open, maybe two for a switching layout with a heavy cut, but being as I can only switch 5-6 cars max I think one would suffice.

I'm not sure how the gensets are configured, they may all run in idle all the time and load up depending on demand, or they may be shut down and fire up and load up on demand, the latter is perhaps the most fuel efficient long term but for switching might be a handicap due to the delay coming on line or excess fuel consumption starting and stopping. There would also be a config selector to even the loading, probably automatic rather than manual, thereby engine one would not be the one constantly working all the time with two and three switching in and out, at some pre determined point #2 would become the lead engine, and then #3 etc.

I was stood next to a GEVO DPU at Lenwood and was impressed with the response start and loading. You could hear the start command arrive in the solenoids in the sub base cabinet, instant priming and warning bell for ten seconds or so and the engine fired up, ten seconds after that the brakes were coming off and the unit loading up, I thought that was impressive for a 4400Hp unit.

 

[mickoo]

Well the boss level ACe arrived today having been sat in customs for over two weeks, eventually all the paperwork was resolved, fees paid and I could pick it up, all of which would have been avoided if the seller had written toy train in the description as opposed to 'other'.

It's nice, it's very nice, probably the best OMI model I've ever seen, though the Veranda comes close this one just tips it for neatness of build, soldering and paint work. It wasn't cheap but then for me price (within reason) was never a major factor in this purchase, it's rarity and personal attachment having been up close to them in Cajon was enough for me.

It's been professionally weathered, quite good but more an overall wash with little detail picked out that you seen on the real machines, it needs some tonal changes, some wetness (oil) here and there and scuff marks to tread plates, door handles and walkways etc.

So first the real deal to remind folks how brutish these look, it's been said EMD only used a rule and set square when drawing these up, I don't think there's any radius over 2" on these except pipes and air tanks, ideal for etch work to be honest.

UP 8637 Palmdale cut off heading out of the LA basin on the lower slopes of Cajon Pass.



UP 8836 DPU at Victorville narrows heading toward Barstow, that quaint truss bridge is no more, the line has been straightened and a new double track flat concrete bridge installed where that tree is to the right above the last well car.



UP 8952 rolling out of West Colton.



The model.

















Am I happy, yeah, it's been a long time coming, years in fact. I'd toyed with working up an etched one but lack of drawings precluded an accurate model; now I'll just clone this one.

I've no idea how accurate this OMI one is and I found in the past someone who's managed to measure one (lengths and heights but no widths) and put basic dimensions up on a drawing, so I can cross ref that if need be; plus the few measurements I took line side and detail up close photos should suffice. It captures the look for me and that's a good enough basis for me to work from.

All this now leaves the collection waiting the final model, a SD70M, there was one last week, same seller but with this one sat in customs I didn't pull the trigger, plus for all who are self employed, end of Jan is not a good time to be buying toy trains

 

[Jordan]

Picked up this more modern Gen set at the weekend. I've not seen many of these kicking around, certainly not 2R and not for the low price this one was asking.

Where do you find these low price bargains, Mick?? Not UK Ebay, I'm sure, and even US Ebay never seems to throw up much when I search for "2-rail diesel" - even Dummy locos are hitting $300 as far as I can tell...!!
I'm on the "American O Scale in UK" Farcebook group, but there must be other places to look?
Of course, the phrase "low price bargain" is open to interpretation, too. I just paid more than I ever thought I would for an Atlas/Roco F9 that I didn't know I needed until it was offered - but the price was worth it for the ESU sound decoder & the NWSL wheelsets it is fitted with.

 

[mickoo]

The Genset came up on a FB page British O gauge buying and selling, the last place you'd find a US engine and it was up for sale early Jan and no one wanted it, I asked him a couple of days ago if it was still available and he said yes it was still for sale, so I took it. I think £200 + P&P was a good price, maybe I'm wrong? I think the Lionel ones go for something like £800-1200 as they're quite rare, never seen an MTH one either to be honest so no idea what the real value is, I just wanted it and the price felt about right so I bought it.

Other stuff I find at auctions, frankly it's a lot of work on the PC everyday looking and searching, an advantage of working from home, a distraction too in some cases. You just have to sleuth them out and keep at it but it takes time, on average 2-3 hours each day.

You do get the odd bargain on UK Ebay, usually the ones with buy it now. I missed two little GE 70T (I dimly recall) switchers for £300 the pair, one powered, one dummy, they were each worth that alone, I chanced my arm with an offer and before the guy could respond someone else had hit the buy it now button....which is exactly what I should have done and not tried to save myself £20.....valuable lesson learned there! They were on sale for all of 27 minutes.

The ACe was more expensive and not a bargain, it was never intended to be a bargain, these sorts of models never sell for bargain prices. There's no point being coy/secretive and hiding the cost as anyone can search Ebay and see how much it sold for, postage costs and work out the VAT themselves.

So to save y'all doing that, all up it was over £3k, it's a hell of a lot of money for a toy train and it does make you pay attention, but for me it's a once in a lifetime purchase. It is already itemized and listed on the model railway insurance

On the up side, it's OMI import brass and they hold their prices reasonably well, in effect I'm not the owner of this model at all, nor any of my import brass, I'm just the current caretaker and I just paid for that privilege is the way I view it.

I think both of my Big Boys are near 40 years old and a lot of the other steam is 30 years old, I wonder how many hands they have passed through in that time?

 

[Big Train James]

I'm calling dibs on the sd70ace when you decide to no longer be the current caretaker. Frankly I'm a bit disappointed, I always proposed that if I found them at the Chicago show or wherever, I would always buy in pairs and split them with you. I would have appreciated the same courtesy. Of course, if I had ever stumbled on them at a show, and two at the same time, I might have forgotten to tell you about it? Because what would be better than one, but two. Or five.

All in at £3k isn't unreasonable at all, considering shipping and VAT are a big chunk of that. The units were made in very small numbers, and almost never show up for sale. I believe the original price when offered was something like $2200, and I would expect to pay at least $2500 now for one but quite likely more. I could probably count on one hand the number of times I've seen them for sale, in any venue. I don't spend as much time looking for these things as Mick does, so I may have missed a few opportunities. But not many.

So first the real deal to remind folks how brutish these look, it's been said EMD only used a rule and set square when drawing these up, I don't think there's any radius over 2" on these except pipes and air tanks, ideal for etch work to be honest.

I think they look great, I'd say they are my favorite modern road power. Plus they sound great, the bass throb will rattle your window glass when they go by. Next up would be the c60ac's and sd90's, I'm mostly ambivalent about anything else "modern" that doesn't end in "-2". Special exemptions made for late EMD shunters.

 

[mickoo]

I'm calling dibs on the sd70ace when you decide to no longer be the current caretaker. Frankly I'm a bit disappointed, I always proposed that if I found them at the Chicago show or wherever, I would always buy in pairs and split them with you. I would have appreciated the same courtesy. Of course, if I had ever stumbled on them at a show, and two at the same time, I might have forgotten to tell you about it? Because what would be better than one, but two. Or five.

All in at £3k isn't unreasonable at all, considering shipping and VAT are a big chunk of that. The units were made in very small numbers, and almost never show up for sale. I believe the original price when offered was something like $2200, and I would expect to pay at least $2500 now for one but quite likely more. I could probably count on one hand the number of times I've seen them for sale, in any venue. I don't spend as much time looking for these things as Mick does, so I may have missed a few opportunities. But not many.


I think they look great, I'd say they are my favorite modern road power. Plus they sound great, the bass throb will rattle your window glass when they go by. Next up would be the c60ac's and sd90's, I'm mostly ambivalent about anything else "modern" that doesn't end in "-2". Special exemptions made for late EMD shunters.

Well if there had been two I would have said, I'm sure you know this

Given it's rarity....and as you say we've (more so I) been looking for one for many years....I was prepared to go quite high to obtain it, luckily I was the only bidder but my initial bid was easily half as much again. I did the same with the Veranda turbine, there simply was no other option other than either being shipped to me.

For this particular run (last of the green boxes I think) in 2006 they were offered with three road numbers and all factory painted in default UP colours, there are two batches of nine and one of eight, the last batch are listed $1000 more than the first two but I've no idea why. Either way, only 26 ever made and only nine with this road number. I've not checked all my US photos from the vacations but it'd be a buzz if I've actually seen this one!

OMI did a second run 7 years later in the new blue boxes, I'm not sure if they're any more detailed that this batch, those go for about £1000 more on average, there are at least five variants and there are some heritage or special paint units with different catalog numbers around the same time. There's no data on the big batch (1130-x) as to how many were made but there are details on numbers for the specials, either way, there's not many of them either.

You're probably looking at a total SD70ACe production from OMI below 100 for all batches.

I've only seen one 6000 HP unit and operating with the 6000 HP block, way back in Florida in 2013, it was a monster and was lead unit on the afternoon stacker from Taft ramp, it had no issue getting the 12k' stack train up to line speed in about five miles on it's own.



I'm sure I've seen a few re-engined UP ones in Cajon pass, I'd have to check my photos to be sure. The humped walkway over the air tanks is a dead give away, as is the big box section ahead of the rad core and the massive overhangs at the rear. Those have come back with more modern GEVO's but their rads are angled much more.

 

[Pugsley]

Well the boss level ACe arrived today having been sat in customs for over two weeks, eventually all the paperwork was resolved, fees paid and I could pick it up, all of which would have been avoided if the seller had written toy train in the description as opposed to 'other'.

It's nice, it's very nice, probably the best OMI model I've ever seen, though the Veranda comes close this one just tips it for neatness of build, soldering and paint work. It wasn't cheap but then for me price (within reason) was never a major factor in this purchase, it's rarity and personal attachment having been up close to them in Cajon was enough for me.

That is stunning! 1:48?

I really fancy an MRL one:

As a souvenir of my trip to Livingston. I've also contemplated drawing one up, but in 1:43, so I can put it next to my UK locos and make them look tiny

As you say though, there's no drawings about, but it would make a great project!

 

[Jordan]

All in at £3k isn't unreasonable at all, considering shipping and VAT are a big chunk of that.

Can't disagree with that, for what the model is. Fortunately I'm not into really up-to-date motive power, so being rare & out of my price range isn't a problem.

 

[mickoo]

Can't disagree with that, for what the model is. Fortunately I'm not into really up-to-date motive power, so being rare & out of my price range isn't a problem.

I fully get and respect that.

For some it's a ludicrous price, but if you dig deeper you'll find something in their lives that they are equally passionate about and where cost becomes less of a factor. A friend on the dock always ribbed me about how much I spent on toy trains, yet he wouldn't think twice about paying £15K for a limited edition watch, watches were his kryptonite. He didn't have many and he worked a lot of overtime to feed his habit but it made him very happy.

I'm homing in on up to date for two reasons, a: it's something I've seen and can relate too, the ball, stick, cat, squirrel canine response when you witness a triple meet on Cajon turns me into a six year old, b: there's not much of it about in 1:48 so a layout set then is different from all the other late steam early/mid diesel era ones where stock is much more readily available.

As a back up plan I have also been collecting HO in the same vein in the background, that's a much cheaper vice/habit to feed

 

[JasonD]

The latest Atlas Master autoracks are prototype 2014 build. For some unknown reason I only ordered four...? Why not more? Oh yes, that's it the shipping boxes take 4. And I model the D&H in the late 70s and early 80s. Remind me what's the wheel diameter I should try and get for this MTH SD70M 40 or 42?

 

[mickoo]

That is stunning! 1:48?

I really fancy an MRL one:
View attachment 179452
As a souvenir of my trip to Livingston. I've also contemplated drawing one up, but in 1:43, so I can put it next to my UK locos and make them look tiny

As you say though, there's no drawings about, but it would make a great project!

Yes it is 1:48 but given the massive size of the real things, they don't tower over British outline as much as you'd expect, the higher scale of UK models off sets some of that.

For MRL I think you'll struggle, I'm not sure there are any RTR and certainly not brass that I'm aware of, you could repaint but you might actually struggle getting decals for modern stock, I keep an eye out for decals here and there, Microscale have often done decals in O scale in the past and dropped the line later, I was after BNSF H2 scheme with the ATSF cigar band logo on the nose, nothing for years until I found an online shop with old stock, so I bought four sets, maybe five.

Sometimes you can approach smaller sellers who have it in N, HO or G and they'll rescale it for you, Circus City will do this and they have rescaled stuff for me in the past, however there is a minimum order of three, but....if it's something you really want and you can't get it elsewhere then you'll pay the man and take his goods gladly. Both of mine were down scaled G scale and the quality was really good, I've not applied any so no idea of the carrier film strength or areas of weakness, but I've not heard anything bad from them either.

For RTR ACe's you have two choices, Lionel and MTH, I've not got a Lionel one yet and they can go for a good price, but they are all 3R and have swung pilots, however, their body work can be surprisingly good quality and fidelity. I've got two MTH units, one is a UP ACe, the other is a EMD Demo M-2, both are 2R with fixed pilots and they're not to shabby at all.

You will also need to check the cab, earlier builds were not isolated so there's no split line with rubber gasket.

Standard cab


Isolated



I'm not sure anyone does the isolated version but I've not looked too hard as the ACe/M-2 project is a way off yet before I start.

Both suffer the usual RTR horridos, stamped handrails, over width trucks, thick window surrounds, 2nd motor filling the cab and toy front doors coupled with thick step treads, the fuel tank also has a big inset to clear the truck rear transom to allow it to go around Xmas train sets. None of which unsolvable if that's the only option to get what you want. I'm not keen on the rubber mat they stick down to represent the tread plate but that's easy enough to replace with an etch sheet but do check you have the right anti slip pattern, GE has raised pinnacles, EMD uses lozenge's and they changed the pattern around the -2 range I think, shouldn't be an issue on the ACe or M-2







The M-2 is the DC version of the ACe which as the text alludes to is...AC.







The main differences are at the rear around the dynamic brake intakes and behind the cab on the conductors side, the AC requiring extra ventilation for the thyristors. Ironically the DC version also used thyristors but these kick out chopped DC as opposed to voltage and frequency variable AC, apologies for the rabbit hole, thyristors were my bread and butter for 23 years on container cranes, both AC and DC.

For the fiscal shrewd folks the M-2 was cheap, around $300 from a mainstream Ebay dealer, it's cheap because it's 2R and because it's an M-2 and demo. The only Railroad who took the M-2 in any quantity I think is Canadian National and it was those M-2 decals Circus City rescaled for me, so I need to find another two 2R M-2s to use all the decals up...shame

MRL is a lovely railroad and their depot at Missoula is a perfect O scale modern depot layout candidate, it's on my hit list when trawling for photos.

https://flic.kr/p/2kjwZk4

 

[Jordan]

Can't disagree with that, for what the model is. Fortunately I'm not into really up-to-date motive power, so being rare & out of my price range isn't a problem.

I fully get and respect that.

And vice-versa - I would never begrudge anyone owning anything they can afford that's beyond my own pocket, especially model railways-wise - what's the point of being jealous?
I've heard jealousy described as drinking poison yourself, but hoping it hurts the other person!!

The quality in that ACe is there to see - funny enough it's the wheels I noticed first in that regard, clearly better than Atlas or Weaver 2-rail wheels. Just been reminded of that with the NWSL wheelsets on the F9 I got & mentioned earlier - I even thought they might be P:48 at first, the flanges are so much finer & treads narrower than usual..!!

 

[mickoo]

The latest Atlas Master autoracks are prototype 2014 build. For some unknown reason I only ordered four...? Why not more? Oh yes, that's it the shipping boxes take 4. And I model the D&H in the late 70s and early 80s. Remind me what's the wheel diameter I should try and get for this MTH SD70M 40 or 42?

Ah yes, you can buy modern stock with modern railroad decals, but they're not cheap and not that frequent, what you can't do is buy cheaper modern stock for lesser know Railroads and repaint to add your own decals, there seems to be a dearth of modern decals for rolling stock, specifically any I want to model, I've all but given up on CSX box car logos for hoppers or BNSF logos likewise. Even if you do manage to find the railroad you want you'll not find the data sets. I wanted to repaint some high cubes but all the data sets were for (example) Plate C and I needed plate D.

Go to HO and the world is your oyster.

 

[Jordan]

Go to HO and the world is your oyster.

But where's the fun - and individuality - in that??

 

[Overseer]

Ah yes, you can buy modern stock with modern railroad decals, but they're not cheap and not that frequent, what you can't do is buy cheaper modern stock for lesser know Railroads and repaint to add your own decals, there seems to be a dearth of modern decals for rolling stock, specifically any I want to model, I've all but given up on CSX box car logos for hoppers or BNSF logos likewise. Even if you do manage to find the railroad you want you'll not find the data sets. I wanted to repaint some high cubes but all the data sets were for (example) Plate C and I needed plate D.

Go to HO and the world is your oyster.

You have Autocad and know how to use it so why not buy white toner for an existing laser printer or a whole printer? Then you can easily print your own. Sometimes for stencil instructions etc I print directly from photographs, just take a side on shot, make it a negative image and max contrast and work out the size. See - White printing with Ghost White Toner Transfer and Sublimation for white toner and printers. I use a very thin transfer paper - Super Thin Waterslide Decal Paper for small scale plastic models from Dr Decal & Mr Hyde in Sydney, not sure if it is available elsewhere.

 

[richard carr]

So Mick are the SD70 MACs on US Ebay at the moment one in BNSF livery and another in a green and cream BN livery (I've never seen that before), are these similar to yours or the same just in different livery's ? $3000 each if anyone is interested.

Richard

 

[mickoo]

So Mick are the SD70 MACs on US Ebay at the moment one in BNSF livery and another in a green and cream BN livery (I've never seen that before), are these similar to yours or the same just in different livery's ? $3000 each if anyone is interested.

Richard

Richard,

The MACs are different, they're half way between the M (not the M-2) and the ACe, they have the comfort cab loosely modeled on the Centennials F45/FP45 and GP60M. The standard M is a DC model, the MAC was the AC version and there are not many takers I think, certainly not as many as the M which was one of EMD's most popular models.

The ACe was the follow on design with the more rugged look but recently EMD has been turning out more Ms that are a sort of cross between the two, an M type cab but ACe nose with the chopped corners for additional visibility up close.

The BNSF green and cream is called the Grinstein livery or Executive livery, it was only applied to the 70MACs and a few passenger units used to haul executive trains.

I bagged one on Transcon2 under new owners, it looked good when fresh and clean but now looks really tardy, the replacement H2 with cigar band is much better to my eyes.



I'm sure the seller on Ebay is a dealer, no issue with that, but I've seen some items at Auction he bought and the mark up is huge, frankly I thought he was taking the ..... I get the maximizing your profit, but the mark up I saw was just pure greed in my view, but hey, that's why he's a dealer right

Personally I think they're a little over priced, well, more like the very top end of the pricing range (as is pretty much all of his stuff) he has some nice DRG/BN SD40-2, again, nice models but out at the high end. I've been following a lot of his import brass and it doesn't move very quickly, which is also a good sign it's not the bargain people are looking for. I don't know the rarity of these particular models, I've not seen any before so they are probably a limited run, as is much of the OMI range by this date.

But, if it's something you have to have, then the price is less of an issue. If they had been Union Pacific bog standard M's then that price is a good price and at least one of them would be here by now!

He had a GP60M recently (touch over £1000), I actually though that was slightly undervalued, not a car boot bargain but not top $$ either, looks like it hasn't been relisted as it didn't sell on Ebay but might have sold off grid. I was very tempted by that myself to be honest but it came at the same time as the ACe and it's pure ATSF and I'd hate to patch it to BNSF to bring it forward in time, especially as I think it was a factory paint job. I 'wanted' it, but didn't 'must' have it.

He also had a white cheek BN Triclops SD60M, that was also tempting and it went for £1500 which I think is a good price for a modern OMI model, again if it had been UP it'd be here by now. Of course there is the option to repaint, there are plenty of O scale UP decals around, but there is always the risk of devaluing the factory paint job with another scheme, plus there may well be detail differences on the models that'd need changing as well. The 60M is a bit early for my period, though they did hang on for some time but looked really tired.

 

[mickoo]

You have Autocad and know how to use it so why not buy white toner for an existing laser printer or a whole printer? Then you can easily print your own. Sometimes for stencil instructions etc I print directly from photographs, just take a side on shot, make it a negative image and max contrast and work out the size. See - White printing with Ghost White Toner Transfer and Sublimation for white toner and printers. I use a very thin transfer paper - Super Thin Waterslide Decal Paper for small scale plastic models from Dr Decal & Mr Hyde in Sydney, not sure if it is available elsewhere.

There comes a point, certainly for me, where you get tired and sick to death of having to do everything yourself.

You're right of course, a new laser printer with white cartridge is the next expenditure needed, of course I'm going to need to print 100+ decals to make it worth the additional cost, but hey ho, a mere drop in the ocean compared to the cost of the ACe

And people wonder why I rarely model stock or care what's behind the rear knuckle....

 

[richard carr]

Thanks Mick

That puts everything he has for sale in perspective.

I was tempted by the GP60M, he had two for sale the first one sold with only the one bid, the other one didn't, as you say though that hasn't been relisted. The reality is that I don't really want one, it would have been nice to have but I won't miss not having one, and converting it to P48 probably wouldn't have done much to it's resale value.

The BN SD60 was nice, again though not something I really want, and would I have dared to convert it, probably not.

I'm in Cordele Georgia this weekend, I hope to be posting a few videos later.


Richard