Mickoo's American Modelling Empire

[mickoo]

New toy arrived today, Aurora Miniatures CN SD60F, never heard of them until I saw it for sale and I've long coveted a 'Draper Taper' unit, I would have preferred it in O if I'm honest but I'll take this as a very good replacement.

I have to say the detail is rather good, perhaps not to ScaleTrains Rivet counter series but easily equal to Athearn Genesis. One detail I do like is the rotating bearing cups (I think ScaleTrains does this as well) which is something I don't recall seeing in O scale on locomotives.









I've decided on a layout theme (the northwest vacation helped a lot with that scenery wise) and a lot of space in the shed has been cleared; still more to do though, re-arrange a few bits and bench work before I can turn perfectly good wood into sawdust.

Not 100% wedded on HO yet but I keep buying it so will probably have to do it to justify the expenditure

 

[richard carr]

Hi Mick

Looks lovely, I did wonder when I first saw it, is it O or HO.

Richard

 

[mickoo]

Hi Mick

Looks lovely, I did wonder when I first saw it, is it O or HO.

Richard

Richard,

It's stupid good, you'd pay £3-4K for an import brass in O to get to (or exceed as I have some brass that isn't this good) this level, if they even made the 60F in import brass let alone if one came up for sale.

I didn't even know you could get them in HO until I saw this to be honest, mind I've not been targeting CN or Draper Tapers in my searches but even so you'd still see the odd reference here and there if they were scattered around. Now I need another two at least to suit my consists I'm planning.

It looks like #37 is the only one to carry the map logo, all of my other photos show the rest of the class with Zebra stripes.

 

[richard carr]

Hi Mick

I went to a model railway show with Jim about 10 days ago, there was only 1 O scale model, a trinity hopper, virtually everything else was HO, but they were beautiful models, no other words for them.

Richard

 

[Jordan]

One detail I do like is the rotating bearing cups (I think ScaleTrains does this as well) which is something I don't recall seeing in O scale on locomotives.

Show off!! ... and "tell us about it" in that order....

 

[mickoo]

I decided to treat myself to a day out at Warley, primarily to see if I could find any US HO stock, I didn't find what I really wanted in the quantities I wanted, but I did find other stuff that I didn't know I needed until it was in the bag

First point is the cost, all this for less than one new discounted Heljan RTR diesel model and pretty much half the price you see stuff for on Ebay, that was an eye opener; a chat with the vendors for a list of their next shows was had and I'll be making sure I pop by.



In essence I need small handful of varying types of train to suit my planned needs.

1: Stacker 1 for the domestic market which is basically 48'-53' Z trains, Amazon, JB Hunt etc, they usually have a few pigs on the back with trailers.
2: Stacker 2 for the deep sea market, usually 20'-40' and any reporting mark you might see as sea.
3: Grain train, unit train of covered hoppers, predominately BNSF brown with the odd grey one from lessors mixed in.
4: Coal train, must be Bethgon coalporters with rotary couplers (not that I will be rotating but it's the type I need) and finding them this side of the pond is hard work.
5: Tank train, must be oil unit train (need to research exactly which type of wagon they use) with barrier box cars.
6: Manifest, usual hodge podge of whatever tou have left lying around.
7: Boeing train, mind the 80+' length of some of these cars might be a problem as will the overhang on tight (non scenic) curves.

I've already got two five pack stackers for the deepsea train and finding the other two sets I need is ongoing.

From today's haul and starting at the top, a pair of Trinity 5161 covered hoppers, there were three others on another stand which I left behind and now regretting. I need to cross check the BNSF uses the 5161 on their grain trains, there are swoosh decals for these so I'll either keep these as the odd grey ones or repsray to brown and re-decal accordingly. Edit, a quick google revealed all the information I need BNSF covered hopper variations - Trains

Four EMDs, 60M, 70M, 70MAC and a GP50 for the local train, the UP 70M can go on anything but the BNSF units are usually assigned to coal trains, typically as DPU from what I saw, sometimes at the head end but inside a GE typically. A couple of these are DCC fitted and none have sound, neither aspect concerns me as I'll more than likely re fit ESu chips and for sound I want to explore layout units with big speakers tied into train location sort of thing, I've heard it can be done, just need to research it a bit more.

For the future I need more BNSF, UP and CN units as the scenery is going to be generic continental divide (Cascade, Bitterroots, Sierras, Rockies etc) type stuff, the only issue might be signaling as I'm quite hooked on having some Ex GN searchlight types.

An oil tank car of some sort, again need to cross reference if it's the right type for a BNSF/MRL unit train, if so I'll look more of them out but am seriously considering 3D printing the tanks with bolsters, adding etched walkways and ladders and throwing on Walters RTR trucks.

A Scaletrains Bethgon coalporter, I think the 'operator' brand is run of the mill trainset stuff, as opposed to rivet counter with is their top shelf stuff. Like the tank car it's primary purpose is to scale off and see if 3D can replicate with RTR trucks. There are several variants of coalporters and some are easier to print than others; the other option is an etched hopper, 3D bolsters and RTR trucks or some such mish mash.

Finally two triple pack stackers, these are for the domestic market, wat is interesting here is that they are two different companies but the packaging and (at first glance) the models are identical, so who bought who? I'd been discounting much of the Atlas stuff and Intermountain with their moulded grabs and solid walkways but these are all individual grabs and etched see though walkways.

All in all a rather nice shopping experience for a change.

 

[mickoo]

Show off!! ... and "tell us about it" in that order....

Not had time yet, real life keeps getting in the way

 

[Big Train James]

Nice collection of trains. But you have a ways to go yet if you want to build all those unit trains. Not to worry though, I can't think of anything you want that isn't available in HO, from one manufacturer or another.

I don't think those covered hoppers are Trinity 5161's, they look like ACF 4650 Centerflows to my eye. I was going to say that Intermountain doesn't even offer a Trinity 5161, but I see they have one in the pipeline now. I think it's based on old LBF tooling, but it was a pretty nice car when it came out.

Well cars, one on the left is a Thrall built car, while the one on the right is a Gunderson car. Both are still offered by their respective companies, none of that tooling has been sold, unless A-Line sold to Intermountain. Intermountain is an interesting situation, there are are a bunch of cars by various manufacturers that were produced by Intermountain, and distributed by them, but they were done under contract or license or whatever with the brand on the box. I know they did this with Red Caboose, and Centralia Car Shops. Anyway, they are very different looking cars, with the Thrall car having ribs on the car side, while the Gunderson is smooth.

I would look for more Gunderson cars, plus the NSC version. NSC also has the ribbed sides, but they have a thin top chord while the Thrall cars have a thick top chord. There are other spotting features, but the top chord is the obvious one. NSC and Gunderson make up the majority of cars that I see on road today, with Thrall a distant third. FreightCar America also has a car that is clearly pirated from the Gunderson design, they aren't that common on the prototype yet, and I don't think anybody has announced a model for them. That's okay, you can do without.

Several options for the Trinity 5161's in BNSF oxide red. Scaletrains offers the Gunderson/Greenbrier 5188 in BNSF. Any of the new larger volume cars in the 5200 to 5400 plus cubic foot capacities have been announced, I don't think any have hit the market yet, but they surely will.

Jim

 

[Pencarrow]

I decided to treat myself to a day out at Warley, primarily to see if I could find any US HO stock, I didn't find what I really wanted in the quantities I wanted, but I did find other stuff that I didn't know I needed until it was in the bag

First point is the cost, all this for less than one new discounted Heljan RTR diesel model and pretty much half the price you see stuff for on Ebay, that was an eye opener; a chat with the vendors for a list of their next shows was had and I'll be making sure I pop by.

View attachment 202325

In essence I need small handful of varying types of train to suit my planned needs.

1: Stacker 1 for the domestic market which is basically 48'-53' Z trains, Amazon, JB Hunt etc, they usually have a few pigs on the back with trailers.
2: Stacker 2 for the deep sea market, usually 20'-40' and any reporting mark you might see as sea.
3: Grain train, unit train of covered hoppers, predominately BNSF brown with the odd grey one from lessors mixed in.
4: Coal train, must be Bethgon coalporters with rotary couplers (not that I will be rotating but it's the type I need) and finding them this side of the pond is hard work.
5: Tank train, must be oil unit train (need to research exactly which type of wagon they use) with barrier box cars.
6: Manifest, usual hodge podge of whatever tou have left lying around.
7: Boeing train, mind the 80+' length of some of these cars might be a problem as will the overhang on tight (non scenic) curves.

I've already got two five pack stackers for the deepsea train and finding the other two sets I need is ongoing.

From today's haul and starting at the top, a pair of Trinity 5161 covered hoppers, there were three others on another stand which I left behind and now regretting. I need to cross check the BNSF uses the 5161 on their grain trains, there are swoosh decals for these so I'll either keep these as the odd grey ones or repsray to brown and re-decal accordingly. Edit, a quick google revealed all the information I need BNSF covered hopper variations - Trains

Four EMDs, 60M, 70M, 70MAC and a GP50 for the local train, the UP 70M can go on anything but the BNSF units are usually assigned to coal trains, typically as DPU from what I saw, sometimes at the head end but inside a GE typically. A couple of these are DCC fitted and none have sound, neither aspect concerns me as I'll more than likely re fit ESu chips and for sound I want to explore layout units with big speakers tied into train location sort of thing, I've heard it can be done, just need to research it a bit more.

For the future I need more BNSF, UP and CN units as the scenery is going to be generic continental divide (Cascade, Bitterroots, Sierras, Rockies etc) type stuff, the only issue might be signaling as I'm quite hooked on having some Ex GN searchlight types.

An oil tank car of some sort, again need to cross reference if it's the right type for a BNSF/MRL unit train, if so I'll look more of them out but am seriously considering 3D printing the tanks with bolsters, adding etched walkways and ladders and throwing on Walters RTR trucks.

A Scaletrains Bethgon coalporter, I think the 'operator' brand is run of the mill trainset stuff, as opposed to rivet counter with is their top shelf stuff. Like the tank car it's primary purpose is to scale off and see if 3D can replicate with RTR trucks. There are several variants of coalporters and some are easier to print than others; the other option is an etched hopper, 3D bolsters and RTR trucks or some such mish mash.

Finally two triple pack stackers, these are for the domestic market, wat is interesting here is that they are two different companies but the packaging and (at first glance) the models are identical, so who bought who? I'd been discounting much of the Atlas stuff and Intermountain with their moulded grabs and solid walkways but these are all individual grabs and etched see though walkways.

All in all a rather nice shopping experience for a change.

Mick, I trust you packed all that lot into an oversized rucksack and stomped around the show swinging it in every direction?

 

[Jordan]

I can't think of anything you want that isn't available in HO, from one manufacturer or another.

Back to Instant Gratification, then.... where's the fun in that?

all this for less than one new discounted Heljan RTR diesel model

Indeed, one reason I don't have many Heljan O Diesels. (3 at the last count). Even a lot of US O Scale fulfils that criteria (well mine does!)

Looking forward to seeing your 100+ unit trains in your, what was it? - 14ft x 9ft shed..?? only kidding - remember - "Model Railroading is Fun!".

 

[mickoo]

Back to Instant Gratification, then.... where's the fun in that?

All the fun in the world life is too hectic at the moment to do anything else but...

Indeed, one reason I don't have many Heljan O Diesels. (3 at the last count). Even a lot of US O Scale fulfils that criteria (well mine does!)

Can't argue with that but I find price for price the HO stuff is so much better detailed.

Looking forward to seeing your 100+ unit trains in your, what was it? - 14ft x 9ft shed..?? only kidding - remember - "Model Railroading is Fun!".

Indeed I'd love to, but it's 17x7' so I'm limited on siding length to 20-25 wagons plus 2x1 power and maybe swing helpers, hopefully it'll work out and look okay.

I've been following this guy as inspiration and chatted friends who like the more accurate and detailed aspect and they don't get it, it's not S7, P48, EM uber accurate, it's a layout where a good 60-70% is in the mind which huge playability due to real grades and real HP/Tonnage factors (all be it in 1:87). There are some angles and scenery that instantly transport me to the Pacific North West, the mind erases the shelf like multi tiered aspect and I find it great fun.

BNSF Marias Pass HO Scale Layout and his Youtube videos are nice too, I like the idea of CTC control as that's what I want, computer to control a route and drive a train with passing sidings for holding and you drive around it, or vice versa. https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=railfan220

All of his trains are 20-25 wagons long and I think just about long enough to capture the essence if you careful design your scenery that breaks that length up so you don't see the full length exposed that often.

 

[Jordan]

Back to Instant Gratification, then.... where's the fun in that?

All the fun in the world life is too hectic at the moment to do anything else but...

With you all the way, my comment was very much tongue in cheek and I do w*sh that more modern stuff was available in O - those big 64ft Reefers for one!
I even did a Thread here about box opening and instant gratification once, way back before the Serious Squad gained a majority....

 

[mickoo]

With you all the way, my comment was very much tongue in cheek and I do w*sh that more modern stuff was available in O - those big 64ft Reefers for one!
I even did a Thread here about box opening and instant gratification once, way back before the Serious Squad gained a majority....

The covered hoppers were £20, it’s impossible to scratch build one that good or better for that price. The only reason to scratch build or ‘model’ is lack of availability. The RTR rolling stock suits my playability leaving all the spare time to focus on the track and scenery.

 

[mickoo]

Nice collection of trains. But you have a ways to go yet if you want to build all those unit trains. Not to worry though, I can't think of anything you want that isn't available in HO, from one manufacturer or another.

I don't think those covered hoppers are Trinity 5161's, they look like ACF 4650 Centerflows to my eye. I was going to say that Intermountain doesn't even offer a Trinity 5161, but I see they have one in the pipeline now. I think it's based on old LBF tooling, but it was a pretty nice car when it came out.

Well cars, one on the left is a Thrall built car, while the one on the right is a Gunderson car. Both are still offered by their respective companies, none of that tooling has been sold, unless A-Line sold to Intermountain. Intermountain is an interesting situation, there are are a bunch of cars by various manufacturers that were produced by Intermountain, and distributed by them, but they were done under contract or license or whatever with the brand on the box. I know they did this with Red Caboose, and Centralia Car Shops. Anyway, they are very different looking cars, with the Thrall car having ribs on the car side, while the Gunderson is smooth.

I would look for more Gunderson cars, plus the NSC version. NSC also has the ribbed sides, but they have a thin top chord while the Thrall cars have a thick top chord. There are other spotting features, but the top chord is the obvious one. NSC and Gunderson make up the majority of cars that I see on road today, with Thrall a distant third. FreightCar America also has a car that is clearly pirated from the Gunderson design, they aren't that common on the prototype yet, and I don't think anybody has announced a model for them. That's okay, you can do without.

Several options for the Trinity 5161's in BNSF oxide red. Scaletrains offers the Gunderson/Greenbrier 5188 in BNSF. Any of the new larger volume cars in the 5200 to 5400 plus cubic foot capacities have been announced, I don't think any have hit the market yet, but they surely will.

Jim

Regarding size of trains, you're right but I'm limiting to 20-22 wagons per train depending on their lengths, might get 25 for the Bethgons as they look a bit shorter.

You're right on the 5161's, no idea where I got that from unless it was the three I left behind, these are 4650s not really applicable to unit grain trains from what I can see, probably something a little more dense, I'll have to do a little research to find typical freight flows for these but they can go in the manifest.

Well spotted on the stackers, the boxes and packing looked identical and I never spotted the differences until I took them out of the box today, the brown one is more like a dull maroon, an odd colour and not pleasing at all I'd respray but finding modern freight car decals is almost as hard in HO as it is in O. These 53 footers are huge, it won't take many to fill the passing siding, it's the decks each end which push the length out.

I've seen a few BNSF covered hoppers coming up for sale, mostly in the US and almost exclusively shipping to the lower 48, which I get and respect but it's a frontal lobe banging frustration, mind I'm only just breaking the surface in the UK scene so they may well be over her and I've just not tapped into it.

There are two shows early next year which may yield some more from these vendors and perhaps others who were not at Warley, we'll see.

I did a quick gradient test today, one SD70 and pretty much all my stock, just over 15' long train and it walked away with the whole lot on a 3.5° grade. that'll change with a curve added in but a 1x1 will easily deal with the lengths and grades and the 2x1 more so. of course 3.5 is stupid steep though some sections of Cajon I think are 3.2/3.3° and I think Cascade and Mullan are nominal 2.2/2.5°.

Two engines coped with 4.5° so I'll try and keep the scenic sections to 2.5° and punch the grades up to 4.5° maybe 5° for the hidden transition sections between levels.

An autorack train would be nice but the length of those things are prohibitive except maybe the twin articulated units, I did see quite a few of those this time on Mullan but it was mostly the full length ones. they're not heavy but MRL still cut in swing helpers as the train length is a concern so they're there more to stop it string lining than tonnage.

 

[mickoo]

Santa came early and more gratuitous box opening follows. Unlike buses which only come in threes, this lot came as six, all individually listed and all destined to come here, shame the rest of the world didn't realize that with their futile bids

In all fairness they were still stinking cheap in the grand scheme of things. I would have preferred Swoosh logo over the heritage logo but there are plenty kicking around like this so just need to make sure the following majority are Swoosh logo.





In a similar sweep up from another seller these four also arrived and also cheaper than the above, they're (covered hoppers) the older and slightly smaller 4650 version, BNSF had a lot of these as well and I need to find out if any got the worm brown and modern logos. Some of them were definitely Cascade green with large BN logo and some may have been patched, that's research for another day; either way, they won't stay as Farmland on CN and neither will the previous two 4650's I got at Warley.



The 50' Berwick boxcar I've not decided what to do with yet, it won't be CP, maybe MRL blue or just brown and become a barrier vehicle for the oil train.

 

[Yorkshire Dave]

I trust the car numbers don't duplicate themselves.... or at least won't by the time you're finished with them.

 

[mickoo]

I trust the car numbers don't duplicate themselves.... or at least won't by the time you're finished with them.

There's a couple the same in the six pack but I gave up number spotting back in 1983

If I take my glasses off I can't read them anyway and so long as they're not next to each other I doubt I'll care very much. The 4mm stuff is more about play-ability as a distraction from the detail of 7 mm.

 

[Yorkshire Dave]

A bit of judicious weathering will cover it anyway .

 

[mickoo]

A bit of judicious weathering will cover it anyway .

Funnily enough, the BNSF grain covered hopper sets are usually kept quite clean, graffiti with standing.....which is generally less than you see on other stock.

 

[Jordan]

more gratuitous box opening follows