Mickoo's BR modelling

[Dog Star]

How about using the boxes on the footplate to house some of the additional weight? The fuel tanks seem a good place because (a) behind rear axle and (b) twice the height of the other boxes.

Peter has been doing the white metal castings for the outer frames... the sandboxes are a tad larger than the etch relief in the frames. Watch out for the angle stay for front sandpipes... the part seems to be a better fit, in respect of your photos, if reversed top to bottom.

regards, Graham

 

[mickoo]

Well, very little to show this week, finally bit the bullet and had a go at the bonnet top, in brass, seems my metalwork skills have depreciated faster than cash in an Icelandic Bank! And, it's amazing how pi55ed off one can get with a 54mm sq piece of brass, especially as it's the fifth attempt and only another five to go. Still having started it was obvious I should persist and the third wasn't any easier to form than the previous two, but in place it is, couple of errors which will hopefully be hidden with filler and other layers.

It has given me a stark lesson in forming compound radius parts, the main bonnet top radius was easily formed with the rolling bars, the shoulder radius wasn't and I suspect half of the time wasted on previous brass efforts would have been better spent on a wooden former.

The radiator and exhaust section was first out of 10 thou brass, only two attempts here but two errors , the first was the little notch to clear the radiator side panels, on the left side I cut it a fraction too high so there's a small gap between the top of the intake slats and the bonnet, try as I might the error could not be overcome and being as it'd taken me the best part of nearly three hours to bend the part....the second time....it stayed and went in, I'll worry about filling the gap later. The second was monumental, the whole part was too short length wise, WTF! I checked the first and that was the right size but the second was 5mm too short and I only noticed once it was all soldered in. No matter it was to be covered with the exhaust panel so a near miss rather than all out party for Mr cock up and his pals.

The exhaust panel was formed of 5 thou and laid over the previous 10 thou base and onto that was laid the actual exhaust base riveted and formed from 10 thou, I've still got the exhaust box on top to form as yet, no curves so should be a breeze!

Next up is the fuel tank and generator roof, again formed from 10 thou as one part, though the generator section will have a 5 thou overlay to replicate the removable section there in. The fuel tank top is actually part of the side walls but getting a butt joint just perfect was nigh on impossible as the side wall fold had a slight radius so the top either slipped down or slipped in and left a ledge, in the end one side did one thing and the other the opposite, at least it's a balanced model, one fault on each side. Not to worry these little ledges will be filled with filler after priming to give the final smooth finish.

Next? A long lie down in a darkened room LOL, but more likely the rolling top covers over the engine compartment, more bending...uuuggh.











I suppose I must actually be thank full that in side profile they are at least parallel with the rail head (not that the wide angle lens shows it, very banana looking in the side view) and most of the radius is uniform, the next one may well be plasticard and then cast and I may opt for that for the rolling bonnet top covers in the end.

 

[mickoo]

Well a little more progress, quite successful, thus far, mainly due to there being no curves involved!.

Two extra roof sections added, thin slots leave space for the vertical risers which will be shaped to the roof profile +1.5mm to give the ribbed effect. The two roof sections have fold up sides....to ensure that the sides solder in the right place! and two fold up tabs internally to add strength when gripping the model and stopping the sides from flexing in. The next stage is to add the angled runner track (in the post from Eileens) this will form a ledge for the remaining curved sections to sit on....thus ensuring correct height.

The model thus far




The real thing




All taken during lunch break

One further shot shows some of what's in the radiator section, worth modelling or not? I haven't decided, but now the roofs on, a trite harder to accomplish if you want uber accuracy but a replication would be possible, it's not something I'm going to loose too much sleep over LOL.


Whilst bending brass I kept mulling over the stamped door issue, initially it was planned for the stampings to be plasticard overlays, but pleased with the recent roof section decided that brass would of course be better. Now I don't have the time or skills to cut all these out, so CAD it'll have to be and having been promising myself I could and would do this sort of stuff, kind of backed myself into a corner really. 3DStudioMax is a breeze compared with AutoCad, I did try Draftsight but just ended up shouting at it...a lot more than AutoCad, neither respond well to raised voices and threats of electron death....mores the pity!

However, after much keyboard bashing and hateful dialogue some resemblance of stamped panels for three doors has appeared, pathetic considered the man hours put into it, but accurate to 0.25mm...so far, may need to go to 0.1mm. The stampings are in two layers on the 1:1, the main stamping being much deeper than 'fingers' that are half depth at the hinge and latch points, thus the etch tabs are in effect these 'fingers' and will be cut as far away from the required part to retain the tab, thin green lines on the image.

Now I have no idea what the etchers actually want, other than the drawing format and the current image is simply block filled areas on one layer, some people note you need a base layer and a front and rear layer, some one layer with coloured parts to signify front and rear etch, I've no idea, but it's something to explore in the very near future.

The real deal


Note differing depths of the skin stamping.

The initial etch for left front three doors.


One further extension of this CAD work is that I may well make the missing left side generator section door where the compressor box is. Currently only the top half of the door is present attached to the compressor box sub assembly, this isn't fully fitted yet so it should be possible to draw those doors with their half etches and get rid of the compressor box and add the door back and give me a mid numbered Vac only loco. The only downside then will be the left side stunted battery box, short by about 6", that'd require a whole new battery box etch, hmm, food for thought.

More anon.

Addendum, drat, just noted one handrail hole has gone AWOL, if anyone finds a 0.6mm hole aimlessly wandering around could they please be so kind as to direct it back here

 

[Pugsley]

As an alternative, why not draw out the parts to the shape you want, print onto paper and then glue that to the plastic sheet. You can then cut them out to the lines and they should be pretty much the shape you want. It's something that I do fairly regularly.

I'm just thinking that the etch route, for a one-off, is going to be quite pricey unless you can sell the surplus to others.

 

[mickoo]

As an alternative, why not draw out the parts to the shape you want, print onto paper and then glue that to the plastic sheet. You can then cut them out to the lines and they should be pretty much the shape you want. It's something that I do fairly regularly.

I'm just thinking that the etch route, for a one-off, is going to be quite pricey unless you can sell the surplus to others.

That is an option but Plasticard to brass adhesive is fraught with issues as discussed elsewhere, there is an adhesive but it is/can be expensive, could be more than a one off etch?, I have no idea how much this etch will cost but I need at least two sets. If going the plasticard route then exact measurements are not that important, the centre deeper section (10 thou) is simply the large black areas and can be out by 0.25mm here and there with little loss of fidelity, the thinner 'fingers' in 5 thou can simply be cut to size and placed in relation to the hinges and latches, sliding up or down to fit. With the brass etch being one piece then the fingers have to be accurately positioned to match the model so that makes then technically more difficult to make up, does that make any sense at all?.

In short if using Plasticard there's no need to print, simply cut to size, its the hand cutting in brass that's problematical, of course one could follow the same approach with brass in 10 and 5 thou, but soldering all those little 'fingers' on is a recipe for Capt'n cock up and his crew to make an entrance .

Certainly food for thought, but pricing I'll review when the etchers present me with a draft bill, a quick look at PPD shows an A4 sheet in 20 thou to be roughly £35, I could probably get both locos and more on an A4 sheet, or one loco on an A5 sheet.

Sell on, it has crossed my mind but I doubt there's any mileage in the door stampings for others, it's a bit of a niche item in a niche environment LOL and I cannot see any one else bothering to go to the level of anorak modifications that I have, all for an 08! LOL.

 

[Pugsley]

That is an option but Plasticard to brass adhesive is fraught with issues as discussed elsewhere, there is an adhesive but it is/can be expensive, could be more than a one off etch?

I've never had a problem gluing plastic to brass with contact adhesive, I just make sure that both faces to be glued are roughened up, and that seems to do the job. It's only a decorative part, after all, I'd be a bit more concerned if it were structural.

With regard to selling the surplus, I'm sure that you'll find someone else in the same niche!

 

[Steph Dale]

Certainly food for thought, but pricing I'll review when the etchers present me with a draft bill, a quick look at PPD shows an A4 sheet in 20 thou to be roughly £35, I could probably get both locos and more on an A4 sheet, or one loco on an A5 sheet.

Mick,

I suggest you contact them - that page hasn't been updated for an age...

Steph

 

[mickoo]

I've never had a problem gluing plastic to brass with contact adhesive, I just make sure that both faces to be glued are roughened up, and that seems to do the job. It's only a decorative part, after all, I'd be a bit more concerned if it were structural.

With regard to selling the surplus, I'm sure that you'll find someone else in the same niche!

Well I'm inclined to agree, I've not had an issue with CA on the 1/32 Plasticard (and it is Plasticard that is the errant material) Class 40 thus far, yet it has been noted here that issues can arise and I have heard mutterings in the past too elsewhere.

I think perhaps it's just one of those cases of JDFI and see what happens. I can accept there may be issues with large expanses of differing materials that may be subjected to torsional forces, I.E. coach sides or roof's but 14x36mm panel doors?, the engineer in me suggests not.

Never the less no matter what material the doors end up from, the exercise was proof enough that I can....if required do CAD work in Autocad, even if a slightly higher blood pressure level than I first anticipated LOL.

 

[mickoo]

Mick,

I suggest you contact them - that page hasn't been updated for an age...

Steph

Duly noted kind sir

 

[Heather Kay]

Some decades ago I stuck some plastic card numerals to a brass loco using Spraymount. It was intended to be temporary, but the numbers are still there around a quarter century later.

Just thought I'd throw that out there.

(The loco was an RJH LMS 10000, which had been built for Best Beloved's 50th birthday. It represented the loco as it appeared about five days out of Derby Works at the end of 1947.)

 

[mickoo]

Some decades ago I stuck some plastic card numerals to a brass loco using Spraymount. It was intended to be temporary, but the numbers are still there around a quarter century later.

Just thought I'd throw that out there.

(The loco was an RJH LMS 10000, which had been built for Best Beloved's 50th birthday. It represented the loco as it appeared about five days out of Derby Works at the end of 1947.)

Heather, seems to be a case of 'your mileage may vary' LOL

 

[mickoo]

Well the bits from Eileeens turned up but as yet zero work on the 08 this weekend...but there's still time for a late night post later on if progress ensures LOL.

Instead I decided to pull my digit out and unwrap the lathe and clean off all the shipping grease or what ever crud it is they have sprayed on it. Currently setting up the compound slide gibs after removal of the originals and installation of replacement brass ones, original tool post is removed and new quick release one to be installed and set up, then a light oil and I can begin to turn nice pieces of material into swarf

Primarily to begin with, some S7 wheels but first a tool to hold them will need to be machined up and I may turn up (or get lazy and buy) some new handles to replace the knuckle busting ones on the compound slides.
Also finished off some more of the lathe bench (added splash back/ rear wall, just needs high level shelf for tools added and a strip light underneath to compliment the angle poise lamp.

Drilling backside of gibs to match retaining grub screws


The bench


Stripped down


If anyone's interested I'll throw up some photos as I do the wheel conversions etc.

 

[Dog Star]

Yes please/

 

[Locomodels]

If anyone's interested I'll throw up some photos as I do the wheel conversions etc.[/quote]





That would be interesting as it is always good to see how other people do particular jobs, it often helps to refine ones own techniques.

Could you also explain why you needed to change the gib strips?

So who's been spending their pocket money !

 

[JimG]

"Locomodels, post: 63122, member: 120"]If anyone's interested I'll throw up some photos as I do the wheel conversions etc.

Could you also explain why you needed to change the gib strips?

I would like to know as well. My lathes and milling machines seem to work well with steel gibs against cast iron.

Jim.

 

[Emma H]

If anyone's interested I'll throw up some photos as I do the wheel conversions etc.

Another yes please as I would like to have a go at doing my own re-profiling.

I have a form tool somewhere but no lathe (yet).

 

[Wizard of the Moor]

Another 'yes please' from me. Can't have too much messing about with machine tools.

 

[mickoo]

That would be interesting as it is always good to see how other people do particular jobs, it often helps to refine ones own techniques.

Well I'm only going to plagiarize other people who have gone before me LOL, basically some sort of jig to hold the wheels central and impart rotational forces without placing too much strain on the tyre as it's turned, especially spoked wheels but not sure just yet how to do diesel wheels, perhaps a tool with a stub to centre the wheel and then threaded above the boss and a nut to tighten it all down. If I get away from traverser commissioning tomorrow I'll scoot down the turners shop and relieve them of some scrap steel bar they have lying around

So who's been spending their pocket money !

Not as expensive as you might imagine , cheaper than some of the kits I've bought recently and that's with all the extras I added to the package.

Could you also explain why you needed to change the gib strips?

I would like to know as well. My lathes and milling machines seem to work well with steel gibs against cast iron.

Jim.

Because I was advised too, I was also advised to change the head stock ball bearings for taper bearings but as yet have not gone that far, I'll see how much chatter I get from the form tool, I'm hoping lubrication and a gentle touch will reduce headstock chatter, we'll see.

I'm sure steel gibs are fine but if there's a 1% chance of something not working right then I can assure y'all it'll be 100% that it'll be me that is that 1%!

BTW, what's the score with Slaters axles, I'm sure I read somewhere they will exchange standard axles for S7 ones for free or nominal charge, but blow'd if I can find that reference again! I hope so as I have a pile of standard axles laying waste here.

 

[Dog Star]

BTW, what's the score with Slaters axles, I'm sure I read somewhere they will exchange standard axles for S7 ones for free or nominal charge, but blow'd if I can find that reference again! I hope so as I have a pile of standard axles laying waste here.

Call the Slater's belling tone in the Darley Dale factory and when requested by the nice silicon robot select extension 10. Sometimes David answers the call, sometimes someone else does so then ask for David White.

Tell David what you wish to do and he will think about it... for a minute or two... and then let you know price and how to proceed. When buying from Slater's direct, either by post or at a show, letting them know beforehand that you want S7 wheels means that you will get the required wheelsets even if within a kit.

regards, Graham (who is having a rest from Barking, makes my throat sore)

 

[mickoo]

Call the Slater's belling tone in the Darley Dale factory and when requested by the nice silicon robot select extension 10. Sometimes David answers the call, sometimes someone else does so then ask for David White.

Tell David what you wish to do and he will think about it... for a minute or two... and then let you know price and how to proceed. When buying from Slater's direct, either by post or at a show, letting them know beforehand that you want S7 wheels means that you will get the required wheelsets even if within a kit.

regards, Graham (who is having a rest from Barking, makes my throat sore)