Mickoo's BR modelling

[mickoo]

Graham, I had thought I'd pushed the frames out a little but it turns out they are pretty parallel from buffer beam to buffer beam and line up perfectly with adjoing etches there in. So in simple terms the gap between frames is 40mm (but I will recheck all this tonight). A quick check if you have made up your frames is to measure the gap between the valances, then measure from the inside of the frame to the bent over tab and deduct from the gap between valances...both sides. It is my understanding that those frame tabs spce the frames from the valance, I took mine off for appearances etc.

Your hub width of 38.9mm should be fine and your tyre width of 38.5mm will be fine too, but it is close.

Standard Slaters tyre width from the ones I have here is 39.0mm and a tread width of 3.86mm.

So it looks like roughly 0.25mm has been taken off your tyre width which confirms with the overall tyre width reduction of 0.5mm between yours and stock.

With out tyre width reduction I now have plenty of room with stock wheels in a frame gap of 40mm (to be confirmed with more detail measurments along the whole length) so you should have even less problems, in fact the gap I have is too much visually when compared to 1:1 and may consider moving the frames in a little or at least bending then in at the lower edge by 0.25mm or so.

 

[Dog Star]

If David (Mr. MMP) is able to assist, what is the expected distance between the outer frames as designed?

Thank you, Graham

 

[mickoo]

If David (Mr. MMP) is able to assist, what is the expected distance between the outer frames as designed?

Thank you, Graham

Probably 40mm to be honest Graham, the frames have turn outs at the end that solder to the buffer beam, they have to line up with the buffer beam sides and etched holes for buffers, at that point where there is no ambiguity the frames measure 40.17mm, of course mileage may differ in where the turn outs are bent, but not more than +-0.05mm I'd suggest.




Distance between red arrows determined by position of turnouts in red ovals in relation to buffer beam, and they look pretty close to what I think the kit expects.

 

[Dog Star]

Probably 40mm to be honest Graham, the frames have turn outs at the end that solder to the buffer beam, they have to line up with the buffer beam sides and etched holes for buffers, at that point where there is no ambiguity the frames measure 40.17mm, of course mileage may differ in where the turn outs are bent, but not more than +-0.05mm I'd suggest.

That seems a result then, our S7 wheels on axles are circa 38.8mm over centre faces and the frames at 40mm means that there is about 0.5mm clearance on each side..

regards, Graham

 

[mickoo]

That seems a result then, our S7 wheels on axles are circa 38.8mm over centre faces and the frames at 40mm means that there is about 0.5mm clearance on each side..

regards, Graham

Graham, oh yes, I very much doubt you'll have a problem getting your wheels in the frames, my initial problem was two fold, frames not perpendicular to the footplate and bent in at the bottom and wheels not pushed home on the axles.

I think your/ our biggest issue is going to be stopping the side play from the narrow inner carrier frames which on mine folded up are 25.5mm over outside faces which gives 6.3mm of side play per axle.

 

[Dog Star]

I think your/ our biggest issue is going to be stopping the side play from the narrow inner carrier frames which on mine folded up are 25.5mm over outside faces which gives 6.3mm of side play per axle.

I agree. We have used a couple of tactics in the past... if the bearing bush is long enough, then fit "inside out"... or insert some thrust washers between the bush and the wheel (a good friend has produced P/B thrust washers for our GE Tram loco by turning P/B round bar). The Connoisseur kit for the Tram has similar characteristics to the Cl.08 in that there are side plates on the prototype, the inner frames are a fold-up for 0-FS and our model is S7.

regards, Graham

 

[Tim Humphreys ex Mudhen]

Mick
When using the Slaters plastic hornguides I have super-glued them in place, the J39 was assembled in the late 1990s and they are still solid. I have seen them additionally secured with nuts and screws after being glued into place.
Tim

 

[mickoo]

Mick
When using the Slaters plastic hornguides I have super-glued them in place, the J39 was assembled in the late 1990s and they are still solid. I have seen them additionally secured with nuts and screws after being glued into place.
Tim

Tim, thanks for that info, much obliged, will dig mine out and offer them up to see how much spacing I might need to add to limit side play, but at least another avenue to explore and thus far, probably the easiest solution, may even use the supplied springs if they can take the extra weight.

Kindest

 

[mickoo]

I agree. We have used a couple of tactics in the past... if the bearing bush is long enough, then fit "inside out"... or insert some thrust washers between the bush and the wheel (a good friend has produced P/B thrust washers for our GE Tram loco by turning P/B round bar). The Connoisseur kit for the Tram has similar characteristics to the Cl.08 in that there are side plates on the prototype, the inner frames are a fold-up for 0-FS and our model is S7.

regards, Graham

Graham,

Turned the top hats round and they are a little over length as can be seen, difficult to determine the exact gap as my digital vernier is a little large to get in there, but its less than the 1mm micro screw driver blade tip, say 0.9mm or so, which means each top hat will need turning down by 0.45mm.

 

[Dog Star]

Turned the top hats round and they are a little over length as can be seen, difficult to determine the exact gap as my digital vernier is a little large to get in there, but its less than the 1mm micro screw driver blade tip, say 0.9mm or so, which means each top hat will need turning down by 0.45mm.

One good (and bent) tank deserves a reversed tip (aka bush).

 

[mickoo]

Onward we travel, Etch 24 - Piecing saw 0, Soldering Iron 1 - Finger 0

Most of the work has gone into the sub chassis, by luck simply adding Slaters horn blocks fitted almost perfectly, there is a little side play (0.1-0.2mm) which is pretty small and hard to measure accurately. I didn't use the plastic horn guides and opted to slot the chassis and add my own guides from angle, inside would have been neater but the chassis was already bent up and there's loads of space outside anyway. The next stage (chassis) is to work out how to fix the CSB points to the axle boxes and then add the rest of the CSB fixings. Not sure how much fore and aft play is acceptable in S7, but one axle box has a little movement which might present issues with the coupling rods later?

The other down side is that the Slaters axle box frame slots are wider than the frame thickness, about 5 thou or just under, so may need to take that out with thin strips inside, but we will see once running test begin.

Meantime some work on the footplate, added the etched buffer beams and at the front placed part 16 underneath the foot plate overhang thus ensuring a perfectly flat foot plate ready for the new thin decking. The part didn't sit perfectly flush when soldered which annoyed me to begin with but after studying real locos found this area can get bashed a bit and look uneven and on reflection actually looks quiet good, well it has too, I'm not taking it off again! Also need to dress some of those cusps that can be seen from normal viewing angles, lifting holes, steps and tank brackets.

Next stage is to cut the etch attached to the rear of the buffer beam and add in a correctly shaped part, you tend not to see under locos but on the 08 you can see through the lifting holes and it just don't look right Guv'nor, so in goes a new piece, after that the new deck cut, rivets punched and added to foot plate.

 

[Rob Pulham]

Lovely neat job Mick.

 

[mickoo]

Rob, thank you, it's not as neat as it could be or of others around here, but the skills are slowly returning, a lot is still smoke and mirrors LOL.

A little progress today, no burnt fingers this time and the piercing saw blade is still holding up

Fettled the front buffer beam lower plate and fitted that, now it looks right when you look down through the lifting holes, the rear one is different so will tend to that this evening I hope, though a filum and some red wine may be a better offering!


And no I didn't notice the bent tank bracket until I edited the images LOL, not 100% sure the centre cut out is correct, it matches the Buckeye fitted locos but both of our non Buckeyes are on terminal at the moment and could be weeks or months before they're over the pit, so I'm going to wing it on that bit, it was the corner plated area and relief holes I was particularly after TBH.

A while back I mentioned that the inner chassis was imposing on the side view when viewed at track level, so most of today was spent cutting that back so that it doesn't show below the outer frames, at the moment the axle box guides still do so I may trim them back too once I know I don't need them that long for the CSB travel. One thing I will need to add are the motors and gearboxes, these do hang down, especially the gearboxes, each side is different, on the left side they are angular and quite large, on the right semi circular and a little smaller. After looking through all my images I find I do not have a decent side on shot to show this, so tomorrows lunch break will find me at the pit and rectifying this omission.




As luck would have it the intermediate axle box guide that was a little loose on the axle box popped off during the cutting of the chassis, clearly a dry joint that fractured whilst sawing close to it, it's now stuck good and proper and has no play

For this particular loco I'm heading toward BR(E) so looking at locos based around Tinsley, Wath, Rotherwood, Doncaster or March, I'm surprised even as late as 81 how many Vac braked 08s were still around, hundreds of them....literally. So to keep things simple I'm going for Vac braked with single exhauster, which matches our 551 although she is now air braked but was originally dual braked so all the Vac pipework remains but blanked off, sadly she is not over the pit yet...grrrr, but no worries she will be one day soon

One other point of not, is the footplate sheet work, it appears that after/or around 08 700 (D3867, amazingly the whole fleet appears to have been renumbered in sequence) the lip is not present on the sides of the footplate but folds over and down the sides of the valance, it is still present around the front of the loco and front steps mind.

 

[alcazar]

What about Frodingham or Immingham locos?
And Hull BG had a few too, besides it's 03's.......

 

[mickoo]

What about Frodingham or Immingham locos?
And Hull BG had a few too, besides it's 03's.......

Simples, I'm trying to keep near the LMR (Doncaster - March excepted) so I can have excuses to run 25's and Peaks, don't get many of them out East I'm afraid, but to be fair, Frodingham is on my list of 'collectable' images when I peruse the web.

 

[alcazar]

During the 70's and early 80's, we had all sorts of stuff at Frod: The usual fayre was classes 08, (of which we had about 6, iirc), 20, 31, 37, and 47.

However, classes 24, 25, 40, 45 and 46 weren't rare. I even saw a 26 there once! And a Pacer unit in the yard.

Peaks from both Tinsley and Holbeck were common. Once the 56's arrived, the story changed for the worse.

 

[mickoo]

Some more progress, fitted the 5thou footplate skin with rivets, came out quite well, considering I made it too short, by 0.5mm so no overhang at the cab end! As luck would have it, the 1:1 sheet metal work is joined just behind the front steps so I was saved from making a whole new one again by simply cutting off the rear and making only that part. The sheet is cut back over the front lifting holes, as is the angle that it fits too, usually flame cut on the 1:1 so not the neatest of cuts and it's also cut back by the cab doors.

Next came the cab but I opted to leave the rear off so I can get in there and do all the detail stuff, I'll probably paint a lot in there too, only leaving the walls aft of the doors to paint after the rear has been soldered on, there is an inner cab rear which is quite handy as that will help cover/assist hiding any wanton errors and such.....that's the current plan.

Bonnet sides were next and a slight deviation from the kit, opening out the radiator grills in the side, these are see through and the area inside quite simple to knock up from sheet metal or plasticard to represent the structures there in (more in due course). adding a work fan is possible but the viewing angle is tight so may not be worth the effort in the long run.

I'd opted for Kit2 as it's for late 08s, define late?, late for the bus, late for dinner, late chronologically or late in the production run, realistically I think its a combination of the last two but I'm not sure which as yet, the kit advises dual brakes and logically you'd think one could model a vac example by leaving off the air brake parts, sadly not so, dual brake locos appear (not all mind) to have an extra box in front of the fuel tank on the LH side, looks like a tool box and this alters the intake grills and such, I'd opted for a Vac brake version but that's now not possible, the kit includes some parts for the vac model but not in this area. To change I'll need to enlarge the LH battery box, make new intake doors and fiddle with a few other sundries, all possible but not sure if it's worth it.

The only issue is that I have two of these kits and I'd like at least one Vac brake example, with hindsight I should of bought one of each, but hindsight is never wrong! So, that area is under suspension at the moment, especially as I have to do more work to the bonnet doors.
The doors are stamped but the kit only supplies a flat sheet door, thus each door will need an extra layer on the outside to replicate stamping of the sheet metal work, additionally I cannot find any images that match the kit door latches, not saying they are wrong, just no good for what I need so will need to make new door latches as well.
The extra layer will probably be plasticard as it'll be easier and quicker to cut and make fit as well as bevel the edges to give a slight domed effect. Going through that lot would mean its a mere trifle to add the enlarged intake doors and LH battery box to make a Vac only loco....he says.









Note bonnet is held in place with blue tak and cellotape LOL, also note that chassis seems to have bowed when footplate sheeting was applied, so some jiggery pokery required to get a nice tight join between bonnet sides and footplate.

Kindest

 

[Dog Star]

Good to have someone out in front .

Like what you have done with the radiator panels.

Styrene overlay on brass... interesting combination. As styrene objects to flux and solder, how will you join the two materials with long term stability / security of the overlay in mind?

regards, Graham

 

[mickoo]

Good to have someone out in front .

Like what you have done with the radiator panels.

Styrene overlay on brass... interesting combination. As styrene objects to flux and solder, how will you join the two materials with long term stability / security of the overlay in mind?

regards, Graham

Haven't got a clue! Didn't know styrene had such an aversion to flux and solder, solder is no issue as there's none or very little on the outside of the doors....as yet, but any can be removed with the glass fibre pen, flux is another matter, I'm using Frys Fluxite and I have to say it's pretty darn good and a test piece I've laid to one side with residue has not turned green in a month or more.

Question is, is styrene more averse to flux than paint?, two possible solutions, make sure the door skins are as clean as possible, either by liquid immersion in something that neutralises flux, no idea what that might be as yet but flux must have an anti body that kills it, or an abrasive cleaner. I'd intended to use thin super glue, if both surfaces are clean and level then the bond should be pretty good from what I hear. Another option is to have a hole in the existing door to which a backing piece of styrene is glued, thus there is a bond between the two sheets of styrene, messy and Heath Robinson and probably over engineered.

The only other solution is brass cut from 10 thou sheet, fiddly and messy when soldering onto the existing door.

 

[Dog Star]

Oh dear, confusion reigns. Styrene does not solder well because of the effect of the hot stick on the polymer.

I tried to secure styrene to brass as an overlay when building the compartment doors / corridor screen of a JLTRT carriage. Superglue seems to work well for a while... and then the overlay comes free with a vengence, subject is covered in an MRH article by Gordon Gravett (actually about using ABS sheet rather than styrene). Evostik is probably more likely to work and here the challenge is to get a non-stringy fixing. I ought to have used brass strip to make the overlay rather than styrene.

regards, Graham