Mickoo's BR modelling

[mickoo]

Struggling on LOL

Basic firebox shape now complete, totally no idea how I'm going to fill the front shoulders to get the radius, may need to take the front former out and add something to it and then pop it back in, might try a layer of lead but absolutely no idea of it's melting point or if it can even be soldered to brass, maybe low melt solder will adhere? an experiment is called for. Did think about an internal bead of brass rod or wire but the radius varies around the front firebox circumference so it has to be something malleable that can be shaped to the varying radii required.

Over all I'm moderately happy that a; it's square, b; it fits the front of the cab though not yet fitted and c; I managed to form the shell from one piece of brass sheet, wasn't easy mind LOL, there were heavy casualties. You wouldn't think three pieces or brass could take so long to prod into something resembling a firebox...I'm beginning to think I should have tackled a B1 or something first!

Next step will be the shoulder radius and marking up for the washout plugs and mud hole doors and a little internal bracing, though still leaving space for a motor and gearbox. I do confess to having thoughts half way through the construction, when it was a bit wobbly, of bracing it up solid and putting the motor in the tender with a thin cardan shaft drive.
I may still do that as the gap twixt loco and tender is very small and well covered and a drive shaft up close to the fall plate will be suitably hidden.







Whether it looks like a Standard 5 firebox I'll inspect tomorrow and hopefully some daylight photos for a change

 

[Dikitriki]

Hi Mick

Regarding the forming of firebox shoulders, I solder copper wire (around 1.5 mm) on the inside of the join using 60/40 solder - often in 2 halves joined middle top. This gives a strong base to file back to.

Richard

 

[mickoo]

Hi Mick

Regarding the forming of firebox shoulders, I solder copper wire (around 1.5 mm) on the inside of the join using 60/40 solder - often in 2 halves joined middle top. This gives a strong base to file back to.

Richard

Richard, those were my initial thoughts, however, that would work for the radius where the boiler meets the throat plate but the top outer corners are a much broader radius, around 3mm from the drawings. Mind, those shoulder covers are hand beaten and vary a little, so I may just throw in some 2.5mm copper wire and wing it LOL

 

[Osgood]

If you kept a bit of 5mm tube nice and soft, would it bend tight enough?

 

[mickoo]

Can ya guess what it is yet!



No CAD, hand drawn templates for the cab bulkheads and cab side cut outs, the rest, just a rule, scribe, fret saw and files. Hopefully get it into a rigid base this afternoon ready to add the rest on. Why the diversion? Because I can and I've always liked them and they have a strong family connection to my father who is getting on and it'd make his day to see a 7mm one. I can see it in his eyes when he visits, yes yes they are all very nice (08, Standard 5MT, A4 etc etc) but when are you going to make a proper engine.
Some how a kit of something so personal seems like cheating, the personal aspect is why I've stayed away from the project and the Jubilee/Princess Royal on reflection, it's one of those where everything has to be just so and I think I'm finally at the stage where I think I can make a half decent job of it.

The Standard 5MT still progresses, wasn't happy with the cab front at all, the drivers spectacle was slightly the wrong shape so it had to go and a new one added, feel much better with that and have been adding cab internal basics before the front goes on and makes soldering those bits difficult from the rear opening or through windows!

 

[Dikitriki]

Fowler 2-6-4

If you can make 2 while you're at it, and send one to Heyside, that'd be great

 

[7mmMick]

Hi Mick,

Quietly watching from the wings as always. Looking forward to seeing the Fowler tank come together and I can't help but agree that if the project has personal motivations then this is the way to go. In some way it's infinitely longer doing it this way, but much more satisfying,

ATB Mick

 

[mickoo]

Richard, would love too but then you'd have two and that's just plain greedy LOL Additionally, now I've got the bug for this malarky I've a growing list of locos I'd like to scratch build, a BR lined black C13 is high up the list and like the Fowler a pet of my fathers being a Macclesfield boy where they ran into Macc Central.

And! I got bitten by the USA GE Dash 9 (UP, CSX, BNSF take your pick) bug again last night (sigh, another four hours lost surfing the net and collecting yet more pictures!)

Anyway, it was a productive afternoon, it all fitted and soldered up nice and square, couple little of niggles but nothing I'll loose sleep over and truth be told in a few days time I won't spot them. Next up is the bunker rear and false coal floor and then I'll add the correct rear bulkhead, I'd made this one all up and then noticed that the rear spectacles were 12mm dia, they need to be 11.
Rather than make a whole new one I decided to use the one I had as a base and then fit a new one on the outside with the correct dia holes and coal bars fitted, thus I'll have a small 0.5mm rebate on the inside to fit the glass into. I'm also impatient and didn't want to spend another hour or so making a whole new rear bulkhead up LOL
The new one will only need to fit above the false coal floor and thus is only 1/third high and saves material over a whole new full height one.

After that it'll be cab floor and larger internal structures like driving wheel splashers and water scoop tanks with overflow domes. Mean time I'll begin to work out the tank floor and inner wall as it's not a plain box, it's got cut outs for sand boxes and wheels and coupling rods etc.





Overall I'm quite satisfied with progress so far but not looking forward to bending the flat beading around that cab opening.

 

[Len Cattley]

Hi Mick,
Great that your building a Fowler tank, I am waiting for David Andrews to bring out his Fowler and Stanier tanks namely the Fowler Limousine version. Hopefully will wait to see it at Telford.

Len

 

[Dikitriki]

Richard, would love too but then you'd have two and that's just plain greedy LOL Additionally, now I've got the bug for this malarky I've a growing list of locos I'd like to scratch build, a BR lined black C13 is high up the list and like the Fowler a pet of my fathers being a Macclesfield boy where they ran into Macc Central.

Blimey, a Fowler tank and a C13; you're right in Heyside territory there.

Tongue in cheek aside, we do need lots of duplication, particularly of tank locos, cos that's what there was. It's not something you see too often in 7mm scale, but necessary if you wish to portray what was.

I'm impressed with your speed and accuracy of construction too. Are these to be S7?

Richard

 

[mickoo]

Blimey, a Fowler tank and a C13; you're right in Heyside territory there.

Tongue in cheek aside, we do need lots of duplication, particularly of tank locos, cos that's what there was. It's not something you see too often in 7mm scale, but necessary if you wish to portray what was.

I'm impressed with your speed and accuracy of construction too. Are these to be S7?

Richard

LOL, well I'm a LMR enthusiast deep at heart but often have forays into foreign parts, mostly ER or ScR within the UK. It's mainly the Cheshire, Staffordshire, Lancashire and South Yorkshire areas that interest me and yes your right there is a shortage of smaller locos on most layouts, primarily I suspect as most people like big exciting engines truth be told.

The list of what I want to do is frighteningly long so I'm going to pick them off one at a time if possible and scratch build what ever I can to keep costs down and keep me busy I suppose.

What I did suprise me was the size of this thing, I knew they were big locos but they're massive, I have to keep rechecking the GA dimensions to make sure I've not made it two inches too long or something LOL.

The locos will be S7 I'm afraid, at the moment it's just brass bashing and hacking, speed more than anything else, I'll see how this one goes then I might run some CAD work up for etches. Both the 4P and C13 would suit etch work very well (negating the C13 cab roof which will require a mite more brain power to manufacture) with their simple shapes and construction, however, I've not yet found any (havent scoured the NRM lists in detail as yet) decent GA's for the C13 and am still trying very hard to fnd some for an A5.

Speed and Accuracy LOL, all smoke and mirrors The speed comes from spending an inordinate amount of time mentally stripping down the shapes to their raw components and working out the build process, that takes weeks, sometimes months, once you have the raw parts laid out and the perceived build order then it's a very quick job to cut and throw it together.

Accuracy comes from pre planning and practise basically, plus, accuracy is subjective, I've already got one footplate ledge 0.1mm narrower than the rest, problem was I only found it once I had flood soldered the whole seam so taking it off will probably cause damage to the thin sheet metal work, if it niggles me too much I'll just thin the others a fraction

To be fair these stages go together really quick and with little effort you can visually achieve a lot, it's when you get to the details that things start to slow down, as they say, 95% of the work takes just 5% of the time, the last 5% takes the remaining 95% of your time.

 

[mickoo]

A less than productive evening LOL, spent most of it making this, which is the cab inner rear tank section which supports the two water scoop domes.


It lives in here,


Isn't blu-tack wonderful I'm not sure if any of these areas are supposed to have snap head rivets, I've never seen any pictures inside a Fowler 4P tank so most is guess work on little details like that, the exterior is mostly smooth on the earlier examples so one presumes they'd take the same care inside......or perhaps not? Much as I'd like to 'stick' this in right now there's still a few details that need adding whilst it's outside and more easily accessible.

 

[Eastsidepilot]

I would not liked being the fireman on these loco's having to get the shovel inbetween the scoop covers everytime.
Nice work Mick

Col.

 

[mickoo]

I would not liked being the fireman on these loco's having to get the shovel inbetween the scoop covers everytime.
Nice work Mick

Col.

Thank you.

There's quite a slope on that coal plate so I suspect when moving it'd almost shuffle the coal forward of its own accord? It gets worse as there's a tool/enginemen locker over that opening between the spectacle plates and about half the depth of the scoop tank covers.

I examined the GA's last night and they note all interior tanks and cab sheet fixings to be shallow snap head rivets, yet they also specifically note the majority in the cab area to be countersunk except those in thin sheet metal work. Thus, I'm going to keep the major assemblies as countersunk and then add some snap heads to the dome flange where it fits to the tank top, it'll add a little detail in there to catch the eye.

 

[mickoo]

Just a small update, bunker rear added and rear spectacle plate overlay with one side coal bars added, they're fiddly to bend and add and the holes are not exactly just so, I thought I could get away with just aiming the drill bit at the scribed line intersections....I thought wrong! I should of punched a small dot at each point to stop the 0.6mm bit skidding just ever so slightly.

I'm hoping that once coal and paint is added the non uniform spacing or lengths will be less noticeable, I left the fireman's side for this evening as I'm close to that chasm where mistakes begin to happen LOL



Hopefully finish the coal bars tomorrow and add the dummy coal floor, not sure yet whether to drill holes or cut some of the floor out and add the speaker back here, the rear bunker would make a very nice sound chamber behind a downward facing speaker I think.

 

[7mmMick]

Looks lovely so far Mick and as you say if finished as heavily coaled in sure you won't notice any minor issues, I certainly produce models that aren't museum peices but always bear in mind that to a point a multitude of sins can be covered by being well painted and weathered. Can I pick your brains with regards speakers as you have mentioned it. I recently had chance to play on heyside and was over the moon shunting the yard with the 1f tank and all its sound options. I too am building a rank engine and should I be making provision to fit a speaker in the bunker ? I had envisaged fitting it in the boiler so that the sound is pushed forward and up the chimney. I am a complete novice with regards DCC and sound so any advice would be appreciated. Looking forward to seeing your set up here,

ATB Mick

 

[taliesin]

Were these Fowler tanks nicknamed Breadvans or Bread tins or have i got the wrong class of engine? cheers Rob

 

[Dikitriki]

Can I pick your brains with regards speakers as you have mentioned it. I recently had chance to play on heyside and was over the moon shunting the yard with the 1f tank and all its sound options. I too am building a rank engine and should I be making provision to fit a speaker in the bunker ?
ATB Mick

Hi Mick

For the record, the speaker in the 1F is middle bottom on this page:
http://www.dccsupplies.com/shop/index.php?cPath=98_108
58mm x 22mm, £8.16. It is located between the chassis frames at the rear of the engine, speaker facing the track. There is no other enclosure. Motor is an RG7. All in all, a really good package for slow speed shunting and controllability which is vital for Dingham operation.

Cheers

Richard

 

[mickoo]

Looks lovely so far Mick and as you say if finished as heavily coaled in sure you won't notice any minor issues, I certainly produce models that aren't museum peices but always bear in mind that to a point a multitude of sins can be covered by being well painted and weathered. Can I pick your brains with regards speakers as you have mentioned it. I recently had chance to play on heyside and was over the moon shunting the yard with the 1f tank and all its sound options. I too am building a rank engine and should I be making provision to fit a speaker in the bunker ? I had envisaged fitting it in the boiler so that the sound is pushed forward and up the chimney. I am a complete novice with regards DCC and sound so any advice would be appreciated. Looking forward to seeing your set up here,

ATB Mick

Mick, thanks

Regarding speakers, I've no idea either LOL, all I've been told, read or heard is that the chamber behind the speaker can make or break a sound system, ideally it needs to be acoustically sound I.E water tight and I figured it would be easier to make the bunker acoustically sound than in the boiler somewhere. The speaker would face downward in the rear bunker with holes or slots or even most of the floor removed.

The same applies to tenders but those suffer from the sound not coming directly from the loco and I suppose the bunker on a tank engine is close to the same distance as a tender so may well suffer from the same pitfal.

Cynric added an acoustic chamber to the rear of one of his locos (Western?) and noted the sound difference was dramatic so with that in mimd I'm taking the acoustic rear chamber as the driving force to speaker position, but I may be totally wrong LOL

I'm also going to line the inside of the tank, boiler and firebox with thin laminate floor foam base material, I added it to the 08 and it removed almost all motor and gearbox noise and gave the loco a much heavier sound over track work, not sure if the foam behind the speaker would have an adverse effect, something I need to experiment with when I get there.

 

[7mmMick]

Hi Mick

For the record, the speaker in the 1F is middle bottom on this page:
http://www.dccsupplies.com/shop/index.php?cPath=98_108
58mm x 22mm, £8.16. It is located between the chassis frames at the rear of the engine, speaker facing the track. There is no other enclosure. Motor is an RG7. All in all, a really good package for slow speed shunting and controllability which is vital for Dingham operation.

Cheers

Richard

Also what I've found is vital Richard is pressing the right button to work the coupling thanks for the link I will have a good look through.

Mick,

I had a similar idea with the foam to try and insulate. I may try and seal the speaker in my boiler behind the front tube plate and hope the sound is pushed into the smoke box and up the chimney? I too have no idea if it will work but its really almost my only option as the rear bunker is tiny in comparrison to yours. I'll keep a close eye on what you do and pick yours and Richard's brains when the time comes if that ok?

ATB Mick