7mm Mickoo's Commercial Workbench

[simond]

Pickups.

For what it’s worth, I’ve tried split axles (following Steph’s method with fibreglass rod inside Slaters axles) using Slaters nylon hornblocks, a tender with split chassis & split axles, backscratchers, Slaters plungers, and my iteration of DLOS’ plunger design.

The latter is very satisfactory & easy to make but not easy to hide. Split axles are brilliant but a whole lot of work (though rather less if using cast metal wheels) Backscratchers are IMO a waste of time, effort, solder etc., on locos but are an option on tenders. I’ve not built a loco with US-style pickups, but have an aversion to live buffer beams. I’m quite keen on tender pickup generally, as it’s usually easy to hide stuff.

I came across these when designing a bed-of-nails tester at work. They’re plungers, but they’re tiny. I have no idea whether they will wear grooves in wheels or wear out in ten minutes, but these are small...

https://docs.rs-online.com/b80d/0900766b815846ae.pdf

and these are smaller still

https://docs.rs-online.com/ecf0/0900766b815836d0.pdf

There are also sockets into which these fit.

hope this of interest
Atb
Simon

 

[Ian@StEnochs]

Pickups.

For what it’s worth, I’ve tried split axles (following Steph’s method with fibreglass rod inside Slaters axles) using Slaters nylon hornblocks, a tender with split chassis & split axles, backscratchers, Slaters plungers, and my iteration of DLOS’ plunger design.

The latter is very satisfactory & easy to make but not easy to hide. Split axles are brilliant but a whole lot of work (though rather less if using cast metal wheels) Backscratchers are IMO a waste of time, effort, solder etc., on locos but are an option on tenders. I’ve not built a loco with US-style pickups, but have an aversion to live buffer beams. I’m quite keen on tender pickup generally, as it’s usually easy to hide stuff.

I came across these when designing a bed-of-nails tester at work. They’re plungers, but they’re tiny. I have no idea whether they will wear grooves in wheels or wear out in ten minutes, but these are small...

https://docs.rs-online.com/b80d/0900766b815846ae.pdf

and these are smaller still

https://docs.rs-online.com/ecf0/0900766b815836d0.pdf

There are also sockets into which these fit.

hope this of interest
Atb
Simon

Interesting but no indication of how much pressure is exerted on the point. Another problem could be the length, the small one is longer than half the back to back of S7 wheels so would have to be off set in the frames.
I’ve used 0.5 brass wire with my “toilet roll holder’ plungers and there is no sign of wear on the tyre. They also have the advantage of moving with the wheelsets, if they have sideplay, without increasing pressure or losing contact on either side.

Ian.

 

[simond]

Ian,

I don’t have the means to measure the springs with any accuracy, neither at home nor at work. I wondered about mounting them radially. I suppose that means side tank locos. But as you say, they could be offset.

I do agree about floating pickups, do you have a link to a picture of your toilet roll holders?

My general approach:-



Atb
Simon

 

[Ian@StEnochs]

Simon

I have described them in a number of threads on here before but here are a couple of photos before the flexible wires are attached

Ian

 

[Richard Spoors]

I was advised to use nickel silver contacts rather than brass, so found these from
Kugelkontakt, schw., klein, in KS- Hülse 4 St.
which require a 2.5 mm hole in the chassis frame. How easy it will be to buy them since new VAT rules have been introduced I'm not sure. I've heard that many EU suppliers are not prepared to sign up to HMRC's new rules that require them to register and be paid UK VAT at point of sale.

Cheers
Richard

 

[simond]

Simon

I have described them in a number of threads on here before but here are a couple of photos before the flexible wires are attached

Ian
View attachment 135801
View attachment 135803

Ian

thanks, I recall seeing them on here

a smaller, neater version of my approach

Atb
Simon

 

[mickoo]

More progress on the MOK King Arthur, overall good progress but one or two.....frustrating...... elements have crept in.

The primary culprit appears to be the cast corner posts which are too short at the base so all of them will need filling once the skin is fitted to the footplate, The also seem to have shrunk in other axis's leaving gaps between the skin and post, easily filled with solder and dressed.

However the biggest issue....in my case......is the angle of the flare, I took it as gospel, they are after all, all the same angle and six edges to choose from which were all the same. Turns out they're wrong and the flare is too much by a few degrees, such that the rear division plate has a rather large gap to fill.

Having spent hours, days actually, dressing the corners and thinning the castings to give seamless joints on the inside, I'm not in the mind to pull it all apart and try and adjust the cast flares.

So it looks like a new division plate is needed, I'll also need a new rear deck as the thinned corner castings now leave ugly gaps in the kit etched deck.

One other aspect to watch for, the tank sides have half etched lines for the folds for the flare, they are on the inside of the bend.....naturally, however the lower on the outside even when bent will still leave a small gap all around the tender, requiring filling and dressing back. The upper inside one is the same but as mine has a full load of coal it's only an issue behind the division plate.

Minor niggles in what is otherwise a nice kit to build so far. I've looked at some other builds and their flares look fine, so it may just be my castings, or I'm at home to Captain cock and his crew somewhere.....

 

[oldravendale]

The corner flares were one area of the kit I didn't like at all. I felt it was over complex. My corner posts were also a little too short. The rear deck is designed, I suspect, to allow the corner posts to be fitted without thinning down although the instructions suggest that they'll be improved by thinning (I think - my instructions are in the workshop and memory being what it is.....) In fact I took the view that, as the rear deck had cut outs for the corner posts they should be left proud of the flare - something I regretted almost immediately and then spent a long while trying to thin them down, fairly unsuccessfully it has to be said, with the rear deck in place. Finally I used some low melt from inside the tender to fill any remaining gaps. I suspect that I had the same problem as you with the division plate but seem to remember simply filling the gap with low melt and dressing it back - as long as the rivet strip isn't fitted until afterwards the rivet detail is safe, but the soldering of the rivet strip has to be done rather more carefully than normal to avoid melting the filler.

(You mentioned early on your feeling that the tender bogies are possibly a bit over-engineered. I think that's probably correct although I have to say that their complexity gave me a lot of pleasure during assembly as everything fits and, with some minor adjustment here and there, works! They are, however, not the easiest components to get on and off the tender.)

I must admit to thinking that these problems were of my own making, fixed them and carried on. Perversely I'm rather pleased to see that the issues may not have originated with me!

However, as you have commented, Mick, there are so many positives that I felt I could forgive the few areas I found of greater difficulty than they should have been. There were one or two areas where I found the instructions difficult to understand as well but a phone call to Dave made everything clear. He could not have been more helpful.

All in all I wish I'd had this thread as a reference before I built mine!

Brian

 

[paratom]

Peter, the GW rivet press isn't that bad, like any tool it has it's limits, but for 95% of the time it'll be well worth the investment.

Slow but steady today, I had hoped to have the tank folded and fitted, but the steps too far longer than they should of and I've got to scratch build a couple as the kit ones are no where near the right size.

I also had to cut a couple of slots in the outer frames to allow the buffers to fit and the heads removable, I'll make a small cover for that area later.

Axle box straps required small lengths of 1 mm rod soldered in and trimmed, not hard, just slows it down a little.

Most of the work so far has had to use a blow torch, the metal is so thick it just saps the heat from the big ESRA unless you have it up to max at 400°C and then the tip gets dirty very quickly, so you end up turning it up and down between uses.

I've not used a blow torch very much before, but needs must and it takes a while to get the hang of it.

View attachment 92078

View attachment 92079

View attachment 92080

View attachment 92081

It's been washed and solder cleaned/smoothed, but not taken back to metal in any areas not seen when it's on the track.

I sent an email to Warren Shepard yesterday, he confirms there's no backhead or cab fittings for this kit, it's one of the very early ones so is more of an aid to scratch building than the others. He also noted an issue with the cab sides and cylinder wrappers, both of which I'll need to add from scratch. I haven't explored the issues, but noted it as a heads up for when I do get there.

Peter, the GW rivet press isn't that bad, like any tool it has it's limits, but for 95% of the time it'll be well worth the investment.

Slow but steady today, I had hoped to have the tank folded and fitted, but the steps too far longer than they should of and I've got to scratch build a couple as the kit ones are no where near the right size.

I also had to cut a couple of slots in the outer frames to allow the buffers to fit and the heads removable, I'll make a small cover for that area later.

Axle box straps required small lengths of 1 mm rod soldered in and trimmed, not hard, just slows it down a little.

Most of the work so far has had to use a blow torch, the metal is so thick it just saps the heat from the big ESRA unless you have it up to max at 400°C and then the tip gets dirty very quickly, so you end up turning it up and down between uses.

I've not used a blow torch very much before, but needs must and it takes a while to get the hang of it.

View attachment 92078

View attachment 92079

View attachment 92080

View attachment 92081

It's been washed and solder cleaned/smoothed, but not taken back to metal in any areas not seen when it's on the track.

I sent an email to Warren Shepard yesterday, he confirms there's no backhead or cab fittings for this kit, it's one of the very early ones so is more of an aid to scratch building than the others. He also noted an issue with the cab sides and cylinder wrappers, both of which I'll need to add from scratch. I haven't explored the issues, but noted it as a heads up for when I do get there.

With the blow torch did you use silver solder?

 

[john lewsey]

This is incredibly neat and tdy work Mick
John

 

[mickoo]

With the blow torch did you use silver solder?

No I didn't, I didn't have any silver solder, but I do now have some as recommended by others on WT.

I plan to use it on etched lamp irons, they tend to be a little weak at the folds and a fillet of solder is often not quite strong enough, I'm not a big fan of cast lamp irons as they often take an age to clean up or are over scale....necessary due to the casting process one assumes.

By silver soldering the joints on the etched fold up ones I'm hoping to get stronger joints and finer lamp irons, I'll post up here on progress in due course

 

[mickoo]

This is incredibly neat and tdy work Mick
John

Why thank you young man

 

[mickoo]

The corner flares were one area of the kit I didn't like at all. I felt it was over complex. My corner posts were also a little too short. The rear deck is designed, I suspect, to allow the corner posts to be fitted without thinning down although the instructions suggest that they'll be improved by thinning (I think - my instructions are in the workshop and memory being what it is.....) In fact I took the view that, as the rear deck had cut outs for the corner posts they should be left proud of the flare - something I regretted almost immediately and then spent a long while trying to thin them down, fairly unsuccessfully it has to be said, with the rear deck in place. Finally I used some low melt from inside the tender to fill any remaining gaps. I suspect that I had the same problem as you with the division plate but seem to remember simply filling the gap with low melt and dressing it back - as long as the rivet strip isn't fitted until afterwards the rivet detail is safe, but the soldering of the rivet strip has to be done rather more carefully than normal to avoid melting the filler.

(You mentioned early on your feeling that the tender bogies are possibly a bit over-engineered. I think that's probably correct although I have to say that their complexity gave me a lot of pleasure during assembly as everything fits and, with some minor adjustment here and there, works! They are, however, not the easiest components to get on and off the tender.)

I must admit to thinking that these problems were of my own making, fixed them and carried on. Perversely I'm rather pleased to see that the issues may not have originated with me!

However, as you have commented, Mick, there are so many positives that I felt I could forgive the few areas I found of greater difficulty than they should have been. There were one or two areas where I found the instructions difficult to understand as well but a phone call to Dave made everything clear. He could not have been more helpful.

All in all I wish I'd had this thread as a reference before I built mine!

Brian

It's been suggested (elsewhere) that the error in the flare is down to me not forming it correctly, fair comment.

The instructions do say use the corner castings or the division plate as a template to form the flare, fair comment.

Faced with four castings (six joints) and one etch, the odds are kind of in favour of picking the castings, it would appear not so.....



Just for peace of mind I broke out a casting from the kit not yet started, it clearly shows the difference in angles twixt casting and etch, it's only small but it's enough to leave a gap.

The tank top etch has rebates for the flanges on the casting, as you've already noted Brian, the instructions do suggest thinning down to make it look neat/like the real thing, problem is the etch tank top now fails to fit.

I can see the conundrum here, if you supply an etch that suits thinned castings you are forcing builders to to just that, and by how much, everyone's curves will be slightly different. An impossible situation to accommodate, thus, I see why the etch matches the castings.

Personally I would make the tank top etch fit thinned corner castings and if they are not, simple file the recesses in the etch to suit those that do not thin the casting.

I do have another of these kits to make, I've already decided to work up new etched division plates and tank top, rather than do battle and fill gaps with the kit bits, it is an expense but the time saved more than offsets the etch cost and that saving goes directly back to the customers pocket.

The kit parts do build up nicely, even with thinned castings, just takes a little time. Still needs a little more work cleaning up excess solder from the etched rivets at the rear, then I'll add the rivet straps which should tie it all in nicely.

 

[mickoo]

End of the week update on the MOK N15, taking a bit longer than planned but getting there. The new division plate only took a few minutes to knock up, punch rivets and add beading to rear edge.

The sides need seam soldering to the footplate and cleaning up, then it's a case of going around all the corner joints, either with 100°C solder of knifing putty and blending in all the joints.

There's a full load of coal going in, so no need to worry about the riveted straps below a few inches from the top edge, I do need to add the division plate rib and flanges at some point.

 

[dibateg]

I can see solder...! Ah ... no... hang on, it's just a reflection!

As always - you are doing a cracking job Mick.

Tony

 

[Yorkshire Dave]

I see kits of nickel silver, brass one too
I see solderless joints, no others will do
And I think to myself....
What a wonderful world

 

[mickoo]

I can see solder...! Ah ... no... hang on, it's just a reflection!

As always - you are doing a cracking job Mick.

Tony

Cheers, it's not to bad a model, couple of niggles mentioned earlier but other than those, the rest has been typical MOK high quality.

The MOK slot and tab makes it much easier to hid joints, as does nickel silver

 

[mickoo]

Special delivery.....! Sometimes Mr Pat and his black and white cat bring nice things to the door

Midland Region 3 Cylinder bogie tender.

Not bad for a first hit, noticed a couple of design changes I'm going to apply for the production run before I even start. They were 50/50 concepts to begin with and I think the revisions will make it easier to build.

Couple of errors I've spotted, nothing drastic, no steps

and some pivot holes not etched all the way through. I'm sure there will be some other tweaks needed, bend lines moving or easing etc but overall I'm a happy camper.

I'll start the test build shortly and work up some instructions photos and notes.

 

[SimonT]

You get the posh 0.375 stuff. The rest of us have to put up with the 0.38 rubbish. Nice job.

 

[mickoo]

You get the posh 0.375 stuff. The rest of us have to put up with the 0.38 rubbish. Nice job.

Appreciated.

I asked nicely