7mm Mickoo's Commercial Workbench

Paul Tomlinson

Western Thunderer
Mick, I've one of the cast resin MM1 boilers, and I remember years ago how one was mistreated to allay fears about it's robustness - but then again I've read builds of printed 4mm kits where the resin was described as being very brittle, being broken during construction?
 

mickoo

Western Thunderer
Mick, I've one of the cast resin MM1 boilers, and I remember years ago how one was mistreated to allay fears about it's robustness - but then again I've read builds of printed 4mm kits where the resin was described as being very brittle, being broken during construction?
Paul, you raise a valid point, resin has it uses but it's not a golden goose egg for all applications.

Generally I only tend to use it on 'robust' items or items in low impact areas and to be fair where it is used for fragile parts, say tender spring hangers, is no weaker than the supplied white metal offerings.

I do have to ask people who fear it's weakness what are they doing with their toys to break it, yes, accidents happen but some of these models are very expensive yet their often treated like dinky toys on the kitchen floor, maybe it's just me but I don't get that.

Chimneys are probably the most fragile items I'll do, if it gets broken then it's easy to replace, mere minutes to remove the old one, fit a new one and paint. I've seen several brass chimneys that have been hit, the chimney survives fine, the smoke box wrapper never does and that's a whole new front end, lot of time and effort involved to repair a job like that.

Breaking during construction is an odd one, I suspect the parts are probably too fragile (incorrect resin type, weak points in the design) to begin with; that should make you ask yourself if it's actually the right medium for that part, chances are it's not.
 

mickoo

Western Thunderer
You have got to be shitting me :rant:

Quick buffer alignment check, initially for height when setting up the loco but upon looking directly overhead........

For what it's worth the engine is correct as that's the new one I had to scratch build as the kit one was too narrow and fell between the valances. I never thought to consider the kit tender one would be so $%*"$ far out.

Either way it's a strip down, new buffer beam and retentive buffers as the securing nut impacts the outer frames.....probably the very reason they've been artificially moved inboard in the first place.

Yes the engine LH buffer is on the wonk, a bit of that is camera angle, the rest, just plain old wonky!

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Richard Gawler

Western Thunderer
Paul, you raise a valid point, resin has it uses but it's not a golden goose egg for all applications.

Generally I only tend to use it on 'robust' items or items in low impact areas and to be fair where it is used for fragile parts, say tender spring hangers, is no weaker than the supplied white metal offerings.

I do have to ask people who fear it's weakness what are they doing with their toys to break it, yes, accidents happen but some of these models are very expensive yet their often treated like dinky toys on the kitchen floor, maybe it's just me but I don't get that.
...

When I was compiling safety risk assessments for medical devices, we had to consider 'foreseeable misuse' (this was defined by at least one of the standards) and treat this in the same way as 'normal use' (which was of course also defined). A good example would be a person wearing the electrodes of an ECG monitor who unplugs the leads from the monitor device and rests them on a metal kitchen sink. A stray voltage on the sink could, without some shrouding on the connectors, go literally straight to the heart. Or, at less scary level, simply putting an AA battery in the wrong way round would cause a device to pause operation (possibly missing an important diagnosis) until the fault was corrected.

It may well be, the foreseeable misuse of model trains can be written out and doesn't change very much, not even from one scale to another. I would start with "large detail part caught by loose sleeve" and the possible mitigation might be for the part to break away by design rather than take the model to the floor.

I could compile a fair list from mishaps of my own doing, if we felt this could be useful.
 

mickoo

Western Thunderer
Another weekly update on the 3F, this week the chassis.

The chassis consisted of two parts, left and right plate frames, sod all else, nadda, zilcho. Out with the fret saw for some basic stays to secure the chassis to the body and then thankfully the 3D printer came to the rescue for pretty much everything else.

The big old ashpan has extra thick sides and is a big solid lump and adds rigidity to that area, the sand boxes and brake hanger castings cosmetic additions. The springs were printed with the horn guides attached which holds it all in place around the etched axle box guides.

I still need to work up a big fabricated plate stay under the cab, that'll add visual mass, strengthen the rear end and provide a platform for the brake cylinder, levers and support trunnions; all perfect items for 3D printing.

At the front end a printed cylinder block will go in but the motion bracket will be back to the dark ages scratch build from brass sheet.

The brake clevises are a bit of smoke and mirror skulduggery, the printed clevises would not be strong enough to support the tie rods to the brake planks.
Notches were cut in the planks and the tie rods solder in, then the clevis were slid over the rod in two parts to join in the middle around the central pin.

The front one was a single piece slid into place and then the pin added afterward; the rear one has one rod angled so the print had to be angled as well and it's a snug fit when finally in place. The attached CAD render should explain that all a bit better and shows (just) the slight angle at one end on the lower right one.

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mickoo

Western Thunderer
Once again the fat lady sings, certainly from the major build/component aspect, there are a couple of small details to fit when they arrive in the post hopefully next week now; brake beam securing nuts and steam cock valves. Sanding steam lines will be fitted post paint as they're too fragile otherwise.

Backhead (as is my usual MO) gets done as a therapy project whilst the model is away for paint as do the balance weights but other than that it's done.

The middle springs got smacked by the inside cranks due to....well due to the springs being to scale and nothing else was.....New offset ones are in the printer now, it was only 0.6 mm but they did make a bit of a bang when the crank hit them and sent them flying.

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mickoo

Western Thunderer
Finally found the head space to finish off the Masterpiece Princess Coronation, it's not perfect but given the damage and distortion to the rear end I think perfection was a tall order so I'll take moderately good as a win.

There are two joints where the valance from under the cab joins the footplate one, currently filled with low melt and dressed back but I think the joint will still be visible post paint, I may suck the solder out and try to add a brass fillet wedge in there and dress that back.

I also want to add the small rivet strip to the cab front base, it's not on the original model but it adds a little more detail and fully closes off any gap that remains under the new cab front.

I've added the original images when it arrived, they've been shown before but it's good to be able to do a direct comparison.

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mickoo

Western Thunderer
Having cleared most of the backlog up I'm just left with the Elephant in the room, the JM LMS Garratt. The orbital interest bubble arrival coincided with my head space being in the right frame of mind to finally tackle the last bits. Interestingly, the hiatus and previous model builds have generated new ways to solve the problems; sometimes it does pay to park things to one side until a better solution arrives.

The front engine is all complete....as is usual, almost..... Still left to do are some links from the lubricators down to the cranked push rod tail end, this is all rather fragile so they'll go on post paint. The only other part is to trim back and thin down the buffer retention nuts, I'll also round them off to make them look less toy buffer nut like. Retentive buffers would be the way to go but enough is enough, time to draw a line under it all.

I'd list what's new, but it's easier to list what's original :-
Frames, buffer beam, rear stay, pedestal bearing stay and pony truck frame, compensation beams, footplate, valances and tank vents are all that was used from the original model. The valve gear is an all new etch and everything in grey is replacement 3D parts.

It all needs a good clean up now, then it's onto the rear engine next week and all being well, the final throes of the boiler and bed plate the week after. Hopefully it'll all be ready for delivery to paint at the Guildford show.

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Addendum, just spotted the non finished trailing driver crank pin retention nuts, those'll go on after paint.
 

mickoo

Western Thunderer
Tediously slow past couple of weeks, even with bespoke etched valve gear there's a mass of scratch building still to do on the hind engine.

Anyway, the chassis is all complete, not photos yet as I want to complete the rest of the bunker and such before taking photos.

What I did achieve is the bare bones rotary drum roller pedestal casting, rather a poor show for 5+ hours at the PC as I grossly underestimated the complexity of the object.

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There is some compromise due to legacy modelling done earlier whilst trying to bend your way around the poor kit parts. In reality and hindsight, I should have trashed the whole rear engine and started a fresh, but that's naivety from two years ago coming back to haunt me.

Much of this cannot be seen fully, but enough can for it to be noticed if you don't model it. The view above is from the rear at a high angle, the flat platform will house the actual screw gear and bearings assembly and on the rear of that heading toward the lower right will the the two cylinder engine.

What's above has just been thrown into the printer at on course setting to see if the bulk of it actually fits, a the chassis, b; the footplate and new scratch built bunker and c: the previous printed rotary bunker. I'm sure there will be tweaks need so better doing it now rather than later when all the extra details have been added.

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View from front below with the front end of the drum removed, there's still a very long way to go and it'll be tight to get it completed for the Guildford show, but I'll bring along what I have done for any one who's interested. Finney7 are not attending due to other commitments so I'm squatting with Warren for the day.
 

mickoo

Western Thunderer
Just another render I'm afraid, but it's all in the printer now and will be done hopefully before the pumpkin hour.

The pre-test worked perfectly so the only niggle might be details on the final run. I've had to extend the slide bars to join to the cylinders to make it all one unit, a compromise driven by the motor gear box rising tight under this area, a small compromise but hidden a lot by the bunker and tank wing plates.

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The hole in the screw housing is for a 8BA bolt which goes into the resin bunker and secures the whole lot to the footplate.

I'll add as much visible pipework as can be seen once the unit is set inside the brass tank.

Interestingly the rollers are not set in enclosed bearings, the shafts are exposed and simply drip fed from oil pots, there's no finesse here it's all very crude.

Beware fellow modelers, there are two types of rotary bunker, also two types of engine and two different shapes, sizes, form of tanks. 4986 was a trial engine so is different in a lot of ways to the following production bunkers, if you're following drawings, make sure you don't mix the two up as bits are not compatible.
 

mickoo

Western Thunderer
Stunning stuff, Mick. I have one in the stash but it won't be as detailed as yours!

Brian
Before you get too old, muster all your strength and throw it as far away as you can.....

Seriously it's a kit from an era long gone .....thankfully. Even complete in the box you'll need to fabricate a lot of the model and the castings are dire and in some cases, grossly over scale. I had to laugh at the cab sides, four windows, no two were the same size, better yet no two lined up with any other single window, four different windows at four different heights and positions.

Frankly I'd expend the energy on something that won't have you cuss and swear at every bit you pick up.
 

oldravendale

Western Thunderer
Well, it's way down the stack at the moment' Work on the house is now nearly complete so I can get back in the workshop, empty it of all the household detritus and start on the rebuilt Royal Scot. Then there's the Met electric loco, Finney A3 and 47XX and.......

Many years ago I built the JM 3F as, I seem to remember, only my second attempt at brass kit loco building and it was bought as a basket case for very few pennies. It actually came out rather well and done many years of occasional service on the club layout. I've been surprised at the errors in the Garratt kit - when I purchased it I sort of assumed that it would go together in a similar manner although I appreciate your comments about the age of the kit.

There's something else soaking up hours of my time at the moment as well - scanning and post processing several hundred large format colour slides from the Tim Mills collection, and that's before I even look at the 35mm stuff. His shots of the Bowaters, Sittingbourne railway when in industrial use are worth waiting for.

Brian

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mickoo

Western Thunderer
I suppose it depends on how you define errors and 'goes together'......

If you have two cab sides that are not the same length, height or windows in alignment then I'd cal that an error, if however you don't mind lopsided cabs with wonky windows, then the kit is perfect.

To be fair the chassis on both engines is robust and forms square straight and rugged units. Once you add the bespoked etched valve gear and motion brackets it looks much better, same for the brake gear. Sand boxes are just white metal blobs, cylinders are grossly over scale and something like 4-5 mm too wide and outside of the loading gauge.

On the upper works the kit only supplies the lower front tank so if you want the taller one it's all scratch building, the rear end supplies the normal tank and coal space, no idea of the accuracy of fit of bits as it all went in the bin. The bits for the rotary tank are sparse and not the right profile so you might as well build all new. The actual rotary bunker is laughable, some cast ends and a simple cone with some overlay doors (half etch details back to front, aka rivet aid holes on the outside). There's no support at the front end and I think the rear end bearing was some gash white metal affair.

The boiler unit is probably the most usable aspect, there's no smoke box saddle to speak of and no way to support the front end, the firebox forms up okay but the boiler and smoke box are simple brass tubes that slip over each other, the material is so think you can't get any heat in it, I ended up using a plumbers torch and wicking in some solder to hold it.

The ash pan was useless so you'll need all new there and there's two maybe three pieces for the brake stay and cylinder mounts, they're all the wrong size and shape so up to you if you want to fit them. Most of the pipework is white metal, none of it fits is of the right profile or follows the real engine routing.

Cab is wonky and limited detail, cab roof is overly thick, wrong profile and...just ridiculous to work with.

Out of the box you can sort of build a Garratt, you have to accept it'll be out of gauge, incorrectly scaled, gaps in some parts, slightly lopsided and proportioned badly, at the bottom of a garden railway 20' away it'll look good.

There are people who have built the kit and think it's just fine, I'm not here to berate their efforts, standards or their visions, we're all different and I'm genuinely pleased they are happy with it; I wasn't, but then my build criteria is somewhat different.

If it wasn't for the advent of 3D printers and the clients ready acceptance/support to explore and use the new medium, then this kit would have remained still born. It's taken over two years and even within that time 3D prints have grown in detail, quality and strength; the extended gestation period has actually been beneficial as some of the parts (rotary bunker engine) would not have been as detailed/accurate or possibly even printable on earlier printers.

Having said all of the above, it must be remembered that the kit is old and comes from a day when modifying and scratch building was more accepted and part of the journey. It's also a time when access to works drawings at the NRM probably wasn't as easily accessible as it is today, let alone user groups, face book groups and the mass of free information on the internet.

Today with modern CAD and etching, casting and such like we can design and build NASA quality models, back then kit design was metaphorically stone age in a cave, there is only so much detail and fit that can be achieved with a burnt stick and sharpened rock.
 
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