4mm Monks: perhaps NOT a Classic Minories - for a grandchild.
- Thread starter jonte
- Start date
jonte
Western Thunderer
Just a brief update, fellow Westerners.
Managed to lay most of the track on board two this afternoon. Will still need marking for feeds and thinking of incorporating breaks in all three roads.
Started by clipping track either side of joint together using these clips purchased for peanuts of the internet these a couple of weeks ago:
Then it was just a case of cutting lengths of rail to fit as before, ensuring that curves were kept as shallow as possible with a mind to overhang.
Here’s where I’m up to and where I’m finishing for today:
Cheers
Jonte
Managed to lay most of the track on board two this afternoon. Will still need marking for feeds and thinking of incorporating breaks in all three roads.
Started by clipping track either side of joint together using these clips purchased for peanuts of the internet these a couple of weeks ago:
Then it was just a case of cutting lengths of rail to fit as before, ensuring that curves were kept as shallow as possible with a mind to overhang.
Here’s where I’m up to and where I’m finishing for today:
Cheers
Jonte
jonte
Western Thunderer
My sincerest apologies for things going a little quiet of late, fellow Westerners (perhaps not such a bad thing), but ‘stuff’ as always has just got in the way of progress. Not that I’ve been totally idle in layout terms; while madam makes herself presentable, I thought I’d share the latest developments with you all:
‘Dead ends’ forged into the end of each platform road using a piercing saw with jeweller’s blade attached:
I’m absent-minded as I think you may have already concluded, and despite all the technology DCC has to offer, I guess you can’t beat a good ol’ on/off switch to prevent a collision with the buffers - and a consequential benefit: I get to flick more switches!
Feeds have been soldered on to appropriate rails and holes drills in baseboard to accommodate.
Thoughts also turned to supplying power to adjacent board and its auxiliary switches, which will include AC feeds to three Gaugemaster uncouplers towards the ends of each road. I’ve had these computer type switches for some time so thought they might come in useful:
The idea would be to have the female parts on the ends of what would be a removable feed for when the layout is folded, but now they’re soldered up, I think it’s probably another bum idea. Although it won’t be folded too often, can’t see those tiny soldered joints lasting the distance, so it’ll be implementation of Plan b); or is it c); or…anyway, in the bin with this one.
Ive had a rethink and will come back to you on this one, hopefully with some progress and more importantly, photos!
I’d already decided that the ‘D’ switches - or whatever they’re called - were far too feeble to accommodate those bulky ‘Bus Wires’, and fearing the dreaded voltage drop I’ve read so much about, I decided to just dig out some good ol’ blokey Jack plugs and sockets that are probably older than me and have been recycled many times, even before it became de rigeur, and that are beefy enough to take the job on (and simple too, which is always the best I can muster!):
Again, they will form wander leads between the boards, which I think is the correct term?
So that’s it really for now. Not a lot to shout about, but still a big deal for me.
Before I go, you’ll be much relieved to hear, @Yorkshire Dave ’S recent helpful post re compensating the rails for inevitable movement of boards due to effects of expansion/contraction, got me thinking about this:
Instantly recognisable
as the sector table at Liverpool Cheapside’s GWR former station site, I thought I’d take a look at how they’re faring. Neglected since 27.01.17 according to my photo album, and still parked where I left it on my unheated garage work bench ever since, and which the dust present on the photos will testify to, I’m amazed to report that they’re still as flat as ever - and more to the point - still move 
Really don’t know what happened there, Dave; just pure luck I guess.
Still, you’ll be glad to know that I shaln’t be taking any chances with Monks, and will be filing away at the rails the first chance I get to fold the layout again!
Cheers all for now.
Jonte
‘Dead ends’ forged into the end of each platform road using a piercing saw with jeweller’s blade attached:
I’m absent-minded as I think you may have already concluded, and despite all the technology DCC has to offer, I guess you can’t beat a good ol’ on/off switch to prevent a collision with the buffers - and a consequential benefit: I get to flick more switches!
Feeds have been soldered on to appropriate rails and holes drills in baseboard to accommodate.
Thoughts also turned to supplying power to adjacent board and its auxiliary switches, which will include AC feeds to three Gaugemaster uncouplers towards the ends of each road. I’ve had these computer type switches for some time so thought they might come in useful:
The idea would be to have the female parts on the ends of what would be a removable feed for when the layout is folded, but now they’re soldered up, I think it’s probably another bum idea. Although it won’t be folded too often, can’t see those tiny soldered joints lasting the distance, so it’ll be implementation of Plan b); or is it c); or…anyway, in the bin with this one.
Ive had a rethink and will come back to you on this one, hopefully with some progress and more importantly, photos!
I’d already decided that the ‘D’ switches - or whatever they’re called - were far too feeble to accommodate those bulky ‘Bus Wires’, and fearing the dreaded voltage drop I’ve read so much about, I decided to just dig out some good ol’ blokey Jack plugs and sockets that are probably older than me and have been recycled many times, even before it became de rigeur, and that are beefy enough to take the job on (and simple too, which is always the best I can muster!):
Again, they will form wander leads between the boards, which I think is the correct term?
So that’s it really for now. Not a lot to shout about, but still a big deal for me.
Before I go, you’ll be much relieved to hear, @Yorkshire Dave ’S recent helpful post re compensating the rails for inevitable movement of boards due to effects of expansion/contraction, got me thinking about this:
Instantly recognisable
as the sector table at Liverpool Cheapside’s GWR former station site, I thought I’d take a look at how they’re faring. Neglected since 27.01.17 according to my photo album, and still parked where I left it on my unheated garage work bench ever since, and which the dust present on the photos will testify to, I’m amazed to report that they’re still as flat as ever - and more to the point - still move Really don’t know what happened there, Dave; just pure luck I guess.Still, you’ll be glad to know that I shaln’t be taking any chances with Monks, and will be filing away at the rails the first chance I get to fold the layout again!
Cheers all for now.
Jonte
jonte
Western Thunderer
Thanks, Simon.
Unfortunately, the connector pins are too small to accommodate the thicker wire of the Bus, and I’m not satisfied that the thinner wire I use for the droppers will efficiently carry the current. A moot point, but I like to err on the side of caution
Additionally, the soldered joints will always be a weak point and likely to fracture over time with frequent attaching and removal of the lead that would be formed as intended. The solution is to have a separate AC power source for the adjacent board and control switches thereon; not entirely desirable but pretty bomb-proof.
Thanks for your reassurance as usual, Simon, but hope and trust you will understand.
Best.
Jon
jonte
Western Thunderer
As mentioned to Simon earlier, I’ve decided to place the controls for the three stop switches and three SPDT switches, which will control the uncouplers, on the adjacent board rather than keep them all on the controls on the first board as intended.
This is because I just don’t believe the ‘D’ connectors will prove robust enough over time. Of course, I would still have to transfer power across the boards for the Bus, plus the adjacent board will now require its own feed from a separate supply, so my next job was to drill the holes to receive the switches, AC and DCC supplies:
In the first shot, we see the holes for the six switches with the two holes for the AC supply to the right. In the second, the holes are for the DCC supply from the first board. Yes, the middle hole was abandoned due to the presence of yet another unseen screw
It would have been a wholly more amenable task if I could just have drilled the holes into the base of the fascia, however, I didn’t want the switches on the side where they would vulnerable to the risk of damage while folding/carrying the layout, so, what was the next option? Well, I could have just placed them on top of the baseboard towards the front like the first board HOWEVER, I wanted to accommodate those pillars and as every square inch of board to trackside would be required to seat the 2”x1” batons against which they are affixed, this was regretably not an option
The only place they could feasibly go was atop the outrunner against which the fascia is fixed, but as the layout sits on the out runners, there was no way the wires could enter from below. So, the only option was to fold this heavyweight Rubik Cube and orientate so that I could try and get the drill in, in order to attempt a (sort of) perpendicular hole from the inside, a rather unpleasant task with the exertion and saw dust I can assure you:
And two more were required on the first board for the Jack plugs which will carry the supply.
At the close of play, I have the console for the switches in place with two more cut for adjacent holes:
It balances on the lip of the fascia, necessary to ensure the baton with the pillars attached fits between it and the cork underlay. A reminder of what I’m talking about:
Of course, the cork underlay will still have to have sections removed to accommodate the pillar supports, but that seems par for the course with this build.
Cheers.
Jonte
This is because I just don’t believe the ‘D’ connectors will prove robust enough over time. Of course, I would still have to transfer power across the boards for the Bus, plus the adjacent board will now require its own feed from a separate supply, so my next job was to drill the holes to receive the switches, AC and DCC supplies:
In the first shot, we see the holes for the six switches with the two holes for the AC supply to the right. In the second, the holes are for the DCC supply from the first board. Yes, the middle hole was abandoned due to the presence of yet another unseen screw
It would have been a wholly more amenable task if I could just have drilled the holes into the base of the fascia, however, I didn’t want the switches on the side where they would vulnerable to the risk of damage while folding/carrying the layout, so, what was the next option? Well, I could have just placed them on top of the baseboard towards the front like the first board HOWEVER, I wanted to accommodate those pillars and as every square inch of board to trackside would be required to seat the 2”x1” batons against which they are affixed, this was regretably not an option
The only place they could feasibly go was atop the outrunner against which the fascia is fixed, but as the layout sits on the out runners, there was no way the wires could enter from below. So, the only option was to fold this heavyweight Rubik Cube and orientate so that I could try and get the drill in, in order to attempt a (sort of) perpendicular hole from the inside, a rather unpleasant task with the exertion and saw dust I can assure you
: And two more were required on the first board for the Jack plugs which will carry the supply.
At the close of play, I have the console for the switches in place with two more cut for adjacent holes:
It balances on the lip of the fascia, necessary to ensure the baton with the pillars attached fits between it and the cork underlay. A reminder of what I’m talking about:
Of course, the cork underlay will still have to have sections removed to accommodate the pillar supports, but that seems par for the course with this build.
Cheers.
Jonte
jonte
Western Thunderer
Good morning fellow Westerners.
Just had a flick through this meandering thread and realised that I haven’t yet mentioned what I have in mind for the scenic aspect, especially where the line leaves the scenic element of the layout.
The general idea is to follow the lead once again of the real Monks Ferry upon which this is ‘loosely’ based, by having the lines disappear into the fiddleyard via a tunnel. This, of course, will require some modelling of the built environment above it. Whatever form this should take, I can’t help feeling that it should convey an air of dereliction and neglect atypical of many towns and cities of the late fifties/early to mid sixties period. To that end, I’ve decided to fall back on to one of two of my favourite scenes from this period, taken from a couple of photos I found on’t web, and which I’d like to show you for purposes of reference:
Dark, dank and derelict, I’m sure you’ll agree, this was the scene from one of our earliest rail roads: the Liverpool and Manchester, more precisely, the exit from the Wapping(King’s Dock) on the Liverpool waterfront and a stone’s throw from the current tourist favourite of Albert Dock. Despite the neglect, I rather suspect that in the main it was consequence of the work of those very frightened young men in their Junkers, eager to rid themselves of their payload before their equally young counterparts in their Hurricanes, from Sealand and Woodvale, sent them spiralling to an early grave. What utter, utter madness.
It’s a scene I’ve wanted to model for quite some time and one which will test me to the (modelling) limit I fear, as to do it justice, I doubt our usual ‘go-to’s of embossed plasticard or scribed card will do it full justice. I think in the long run, I’ll have to revert to laying quite a large proportion of it brick by brick if I’m to replicate the wonkiness of it all.
Just hope I live that long!
Jonte
Just had a flick through this meandering thread and realised that I haven’t yet mentioned what I have in mind for the scenic aspect, especially where the line leaves the scenic element of the layout.
The general idea is to follow the lead once again of the real Monks Ferry upon which this is ‘loosely’ based, by having the lines disappear into the fiddleyard via a tunnel. This, of course, will require some modelling of the built environment above it. Whatever form this should take, I can’t help feeling that it should convey an air of dereliction and neglect atypical of many towns and cities of the late fifties/early to mid sixties period. To that end, I’ve decided to fall back on to one of two of my favourite scenes from this period, taken from a couple of photos I found on’t web, and which I’d like to show you for purposes of reference:
Dark, dank and derelict, I’m sure you’ll agree, this was the scene from one of our earliest rail roads: the Liverpool and Manchester, more precisely, the exit from the Wapping(King’s Dock) on the Liverpool waterfront and a stone’s throw from the current tourist favourite of Albert Dock. Despite the neglect, I rather suspect that in the main it was consequence of the work of those very frightened young men in their Junkers, eager to rid themselves of their payload before their equally young counterparts in their Hurricanes, from Sealand and Woodvale, sent them spiralling to an early grave. What utter, utter madness.
It’s a scene I’ve wanted to model for quite some time and one which will test me to the (modelling) limit I fear, as to do it justice, I doubt our usual ‘go-to’s of embossed plasticard or scribed card will do it full justice. I think in the long run, I’ll have to revert to laying quite a large proportion of it brick by brick if I’m to replicate the wonkiness of it all.
Just hope I live that long!
Jonte
jonte
Western Thunderer
I spent today drilling out the consoles for the feeds and switches, and soldering on their wires:
Yes, one if the Biased (yep, says biased on the packet) is missing from the end of the switch console. It was while opening out its hole with a drill bit that the pull wire (more of that in a mo) became caught in the drill bit and ripped it out of its casing from below the console! My fault as I couldn’t be bothered removing the pull wire from the hole Got a bit tired, I think.
Anyway, the hardest part of all this was threading the wires through the ninety degree turn in the hole, so I utilised the pull or draw wire trick that a spark friend of mine showed me several years ago which is used fir re-wiring houses. You can just about see one of them attached to the control wires via a piece of masking tape:
So that’s it for today, fellow Westerners, apart from to say that my uncouplers arrived in the post from Sheffield:
The good news is that a mock-up of the board, cork underlay and piece of track showed that the shaft is long enough to go all three and still lift a coupling hook; just!
Tomorrow will see me trying to find a replacement switch for the one that was ripped apart from the drill and sorting some order of semblance for the wires entering the board. I could replace the switch with a push to make, of which I have several, but they just don’t look as good as the chrome finished switches, despite being recommended by the uncoupler manufacturer.
There’s always something
Cheers
Jonte
Yes, one if the Biased (yep, says biased on the packet) is missing from the end of the switch console. It was while opening out its hole with a drill bit that the pull wire (more of that in a mo) became caught in the drill bit and ripped it out of its casing from below the console! My fault as I couldn’t be bothered removing the pull wire from the hole
Got a bit tired, I think.Anyway, the hardest part of all this was threading the wires through the ninety degree turn in the hole, so I utilised the pull or draw wire trick that a spark friend of mine showed me several years ago which is used fir re-wiring houses. You can just about see one of them attached to the control wires via a piece of masking tape:
So that’s it for today, fellow Westerners, apart from to say that my uncouplers arrived in the post from Sheffield:
The good news is that a mock-up of the board, cork underlay and piece of track showed that the shaft is long enough to go all three and still lift a coupling hook; just!
Tomorrow will see me trying to find a replacement switch for the one that was ripped apart from the drill and sorting some order of semblance for the wires entering the board. I could replace the switch with a push to make, of which I have several, but they just don’t look as good as the chrome finished switches, despite being recommended by the uncoupler manufacturer.
There’s always something
Cheers
Jonte
JimG
Western Thunderer
Jonte,
Just a further note seeing that you are using these miniature toggle switches - they are a bit fragile and can be easily damaged by a side -swipe when mounted, especially on the side of the baseboard as you have done. You might want to give them some protection by mounting a bit of angle behind them that is a bit higher than the levers; you could make this angle high enough to carry descriptor labels for the switches. You might want to play super safe and fit a plate on the baseboard edge projecting up in front of the switches so that the switches sit in a sort of trough. I've applied the same sort of thought to my portable control panel from my FS160 switching layout :-
...where the panel is sunk into the box by more than the height of the toggles.
Jim.
Just a further note seeing that you are using these miniature toggle switches - they are a bit fragile and can be easily damaged by a side -swipe when mounted, especially on the side of the baseboard as you have done. You might want to give them some protection by mounting a bit of angle behind them that is a bit higher than the levers; you could make this angle high enough to carry descriptor labels for the switches. You might want to play super safe and fit a plate on the baseboard edge projecting up in front of the switches so that the switches sit in a sort of trough. I've applied the same sort of thought to my portable control panel from my FS160 switching layout :-
...where the panel is sunk into the box by more than the height of the toggles.
Jim.
jonte
Western Thunderer
Hi Jim, and thank you for your sound advice.
I like those joints: very professional!
I’d even considered mounting the switches on the side to make attaching them a whole darned site easier, but realised their vulnerability when lifting/folding it all, so their current positioning was my only realistic option.
Because of the close proximity to the pillars I’m squeezing in to the rear, I won’t be able to add any protection behind them, however, I’ve been considering designing a screen of some sort for the front, so perhaps I could design it with the protection of the switches in mind.
The plus in all of this is that it won’t, if ever, be moving very far from where it currently resides if the look on my son-in-law’s face is anything to go by when he helped me carry it in when we first got it home
In fact, it looks like I’ll have to be finding room to make way for my other projects, so perhaps I’ll have to do some rearranging of my den!Thanks again, Jim.
Best
Jonte
jonte
Western Thunderer
A little - little being the operative word - more progress today, fellow Westerners.
First, I managed to procure a replacement switch from my local model shop which was successfully installed on this occasion:
Then the wires from the switches, including the DCC and AC feeds were attached to more choc-bloc connectors, ready for the pending installation of track feeds and uncoupler solenoids:
As I say, not much to report, but at least an end to this board is in sight.
Regards,
Jonte
First, I managed to procure a replacement switch from my local model shop which was successfully installed on this occasion:
Then the wires from the switches, including the DCC and AC feeds were attached to more choc-bloc connectors, ready for the pending installation of track feeds and uncoupler solenoids:
As I say, not much to report, but at least an end to this board is in sight.
Regards,
Jonte
Phil O
Western Thunderer
Hi Jonte, sorry to be late to the party again, in the Tavistock and Plymouth clubs to which I have belonged to we have used D connectors on exhibition layouts without to many issues, we use heat shrink after soldering the cable to the pin, we wrap the bundle in spiral wrap and D connector hard shells, which have a cable clamp which reduces the chances of cables coming adrift, so long as you make sure you have a good joint to the pin, before heat shrinking.
jonte
Western Thunderer
Hi Phil.
No probs. There are so many interesting threads here to browse, most of which contain some actual high quality modelling, that it’s easy to overlook this run of the mill train set that’s been done almost to death over the years, especially one that goes backwards more than it goes forwards in terms of progress
I bow to your, and Simon’s, superior knowledge on such matters and don’t doubt for a minute all you have learnt and experienced over some considerable time; it’s just that I doubt my own capabilities and just know that my fears of a break in the link somewhere along the line will prove an inevitability!
So, I’m erring on the side of caution and bottling out
Thanks as always, Phil, for dropping in and for kindly sharing your wisdom with me.
Best
Jonte
jonte
Western Thunderer
You know, fellow Westerners, facial expressions can communicate so much without anyone anyone ever having to say a single word. But of course, you know all that, so what’s the point of me mentioning it?
Well, because my brother-in-law (the one who gratefully gave me a head start by kindly constructing the baseboards on my behalf) thinks that I’m a ditherer. He didn’t say it so much; it was the look on his face, amidst the frenzied activity of the build, when I paid him an unscheduled visit one day to show him these:
They’re just one set in of a couple of sets of baseboard joiners that have given much stability to so many abandoned projects over the years that have never got much further than the baseboard stage. He looked at me as if to say: ‘and?’. He’s the opposite to me and would rather get straight on with a job than ponder, but what I was trying to get across as politely as possible without upsetting the apple cart was that without the security of my joiners, I would be relying solely on the metal fasteners to retain the two boards in both planes. Unchartered territory. To be fair, they’re usually employed in partnership with carpenters metal dowels (I have fitted a set to one end where it joins the fiddle yard board) but I realised quite early on that they’d be as much use as a chocolate teapot in this case because the boards would join in an arc due to the action of the overhead hinges. No, I just had to have belt n braces with my trusty joiners. Problem was that it was now, during my ad hoc visit before the baseboard tops went on to make it easier to wield the drill - they have to be fitted horizontally or as near to as is humanly possible for them to work efficiently-, or never!
Well, needless to say Westerners, the look on the face spoke volumes. I acquiesced. The joiners came home with me.
Now, to be fair, the fasteners have been doing a sterling job, considering they’ve probably been opened and closed far more than an exhibition layout over the same period, and each time I orientate it to work on it, the crushing sound made by the metal fasteners is somewhat disconcerting. Bearing in mind there is still quite a large part of construction to go, I can’t help wondering how much more punishment that they can take before the worst case scenario happens, especially now since I’ve been pretty careful to marry up the track on the original board with that of this,which has also had the rails soldered to the brass screws on this side.
Anyway, the long and short of it is that once again I lost sleep over it all, during the night after which I’d soldered up the rails I’ve just mentioned; something had to be done, and that something meant retro-fitting those board joiners. But where to start?
At 7 a.m. on Saturday morning, and as soon as it opened, I was at the door of one of the big tool retailers to pick up a ninety degree drill extension which I thought might just be a good place to start:
As usual, being able to drill at ninety degrees to the board wasn’t going to be it, not with my luck anyway. No. First, two crossmembers - one diagonal - had to be addressed before I could even begin to open the packet of the handy new tool. And I knew that if the the build to date was anything to go by,I would be in for at least one more unpleasant meet with yet another boldoy screw
Here’s a picture of the aftermath of some judicious cutting in a confined space with a variety of implements to the diagonal:
The good news, there were no screws to blunt my drill. No. That was in the straight crossmember !
Anyway, after a short break to recover, I returned to discover that my worst fears were realised: on placing the board flat on the workbench, it moved sideways so that my long, hard fought over accuracy with the rails was a wasted exercise, and that they were out of true. Looks like my intervention then was indeed timely.
Okay. Time to calm down and think with a ‘level’ head (apologies for that one folks!). In the end, I shored things up as best I could using clamps (cramps?) and offcuts screwed to the uprights of adjoining boards:
Then I turned the boards back on their sides and fixing my newly acquired gizmo to my power drill, did my best to drill through two adjoining battens of soft wood and an intermediate section of ply, and at ninety degrees to the board but as horizontally as I could manage. Boy did my arms ache and the smoke n sawdust were choking. Through at last - drilling the channel tunnel took less effort I’ll bet - I popped in my joiners each side, and slid in the bolt. Only it didn’t slide in. WD 40 didn’t help either. There seemed to be a step between the two joiners. I removed them and tried to open out the hole - gingerly - as introducing too much slop would defeat the object. But try as I might, I couldn’t adjust one of them as much as I wanted. Closer examination of the joiner threw up a clue: now ballistics aren’t my specialty, but there was definitely the presence of a score measuring several millimetres in length along the outside of the barrel. Obviously, something metallic had to be obstructing proceedings and was scratching the surface. Yes. You’ve guessed it: another screw or at least the remnants of one which could just be detected with the light of the lamp illuminating the chasm
So I had to repeat the process, realising that this was probably the last attempt without removing more of the crossmembers with the nightmare prospect of meeting more darned screws. Anyway, pleased to report, it worked. Here it is in situ. The remnants of the first unsuccessful attempt can also be seen:
What a performance.
At least the fasteners have a little more support and I can enjoy a little peace of mind.
So this morning, after a little more, aherm, (well deserved) socialising the night before, a later start than anticipated saw me making good repairs to the cross members:
That straight crossmember was the last substantial piece of timber of the same dimensions I had left; it bears its marks of its previous use as rest for drilled sections.
Since my last post, I’ve managed to lay the rest of the track and attach the wires to choc bloc connectors below board. Also, having conducted successful trials with a test piece, I’ve drilled the track for the fitting of the Gaugemaster uncouplers. Unfortunately, I didn’t take photos as the worry of the baseboard joints issue overtook things somewhat, but I’ve managed to wire up and connect the wiring to the supply and switches:
I’ll tell you a little more about one or two problems that I had either operation of these, but think I’ll leave that till next time. What I will say is that I had to countersink the board in attempt to try and get the solenoid to sit flat:
I’ve also extended the lugs on each uncoupler by gluing on some plastic tube extensions:
If you don’t mind, I’ll explain why the next time I post as I’m only too aware that this post is far too long - again!
Finally, I noticed that those metal fasteners had holes in the chassis and the mobile handle; I decided to fabricate some inserts from old bicycle spokes which seemed about the right fit:
Not sure what, if any, benefit these will yield but they have become looser about the mechanism since they were first fitted, although the screws fixing the latch and the fastener are still solid.
So there we go, fellow Westerners, yet another tale of woe, but I remain steadfastly resolute in my goal to get it finished.
Cheers for now, and apologies once again for the unduly long winded post.
Jonte
Well, because my brother-in-law (the one who gratefully gave me a head start by kindly constructing the baseboards on my behalf) thinks that I’m a ditherer. He didn’t say it so much; it was the look on his face, amidst the frenzied activity of the build, when I paid him an unscheduled visit one day to show him these:
They’re just one set in of a couple of sets of baseboard joiners that have given much stability to so many abandoned projects over the years that have never got much further than the baseboard stage. He looked at me as if to say: ‘and?’. He’s the opposite to me and would rather get straight on with a job than ponder, but what I was trying to get across as politely as possible without upsetting the apple cart was that without the security of my joiners, I would be relying solely on the metal fasteners to retain the two boards in both planes. Unchartered territory. To be fair, they’re usually employed in partnership with carpenters metal dowels (I have fitted a set to one end where it joins the fiddle yard board) but I realised quite early on that they’d be as much use as a chocolate teapot in this case because the boards would join in an arc due to the action of the overhead hinges. No, I just had to have belt n braces with my trusty joiners. Problem was that it was now, during my ad hoc visit before the baseboard tops went on to make it easier to wield the drill - they have to be fitted horizontally or as near to as is humanly possible for them to work efficiently-, or never!
Well, needless to say Westerners, the look on the face spoke volumes. I acquiesced. The joiners came home with me.
Now, to be fair, the fasteners have been doing a sterling job, considering they’ve probably been opened and closed far more than an exhibition layout over the same period, and each time I orientate it to work on it, the crushing sound made by the metal fasteners is somewhat disconcerting. Bearing in mind there is still quite a large part of construction to go, I can’t help wondering how much more punishment that they can take before the worst case scenario happens, especially now since I’ve been pretty careful to marry up the track on the original board with that of this,which has also had the rails soldered to the brass screws on this side.
Anyway, the long and short of it is that once again I lost sleep over it all, during the night after which I’d soldered up the rails I’ve just mentioned; something had to be done, and that something meant retro-fitting those board joiners. But where to start?
At 7 a.m. on Saturday morning, and as soon as it opened, I was at the door of one of the big tool retailers to pick up a ninety degree drill extension which I thought might just be a good place to start:
As usual, being able to drill at ninety degrees to the board wasn’t going to be it, not with my luck anyway. No. First, two crossmembers - one diagonal - had to be addressed before I could even begin to open the packet of the handy new tool. And I knew that if the the build to date was anything to go by,I would be in for at least one more unpleasant meet with yet another boldoy screw
Here’s a picture of the aftermath of some judicious cutting in a confined space with a variety of implements to the diagonal:
The good news, there were no screws to blunt my drill. No. That was in the straight crossmember !
Anyway, after a short break to recover, I returned to discover that my worst fears were realised: on placing the board flat on the workbench, it moved sideways so that my long, hard fought over accuracy with the rails was a wasted exercise, and that they were out of true. Looks like my intervention then was indeed timely.
Okay. Time to calm down and think with a ‘level’ head (apologies for that one folks!). In the end, I shored things up as best I could using clamps (cramps?) and offcuts screwed to the uprights of adjoining boards:
Then I turned the boards back on their sides and fixing my newly acquired gizmo to my power drill, did my best to drill through two adjoining battens of soft wood and an intermediate section of ply, and at ninety degrees to the board but as horizontally as I could manage. Boy did my arms ache and the smoke n sawdust were choking. Through at last - drilling the channel tunnel took less effort I’ll bet - I popped in my joiners each side, and slid in the bolt. Only it didn’t slide in. WD 40 didn’t help either. There seemed to be a step between the two joiners. I removed them and tried to open out the hole - gingerly - as introducing too much slop would defeat the object. But try as I might, I couldn’t adjust one of them as much as I wanted. Closer examination of the joiner threw up a clue: now ballistics aren’t my specialty, but there was definitely the presence of a score measuring several millimetres in length along the outside of the barrel. Obviously, something metallic had to be obstructing proceedings and was scratching the surface. Yes. You’ve guessed it: another screw or at least the remnants of one which could just be detected with the light of the lamp illuminating the chasm
So I had to repeat the process, realising that this was probably the last attempt without removing more of the crossmembers with the nightmare prospect of meeting more darned screws. Anyway, pleased to report, it worked. Here it is in situ. The remnants of the first unsuccessful attempt can also be seen:
What a performance.
At least the fasteners have a little more support and I can enjoy a little peace of mind.
So this morning, after a little more, aherm, (well deserved) socialising the night before, a later start than anticipated saw me making good repairs to the cross members:
That straight crossmember was the last substantial piece of timber of the same dimensions I had left; it bears its marks of its previous use as rest for drilled sections.
Since my last post, I’ve managed to lay the rest of the track and attach the wires to choc bloc connectors below board. Also, having conducted successful trials with a test piece, I’ve drilled the track for the fitting of the Gaugemaster uncouplers. Unfortunately, I didn’t take photos as the worry of the baseboard joints issue overtook things somewhat, but I’ve managed to wire up and connect the wiring to the supply and switches:
I’ll tell you a little more about one or two problems that I had either operation of these, but think I’ll leave that till next time. What I will say is that I had to countersink the board in attempt to try and get the solenoid to sit flat:
I’ve also extended the lugs on each uncoupler by gluing on some plastic tube extensions:
If you don’t mind, I’ll explain why the next time I post as I’m only too aware that this post is far too long - again!
Finally, I noticed that those metal fasteners had holes in the chassis and the mobile handle; I decided to fabricate some inserts from old bicycle spokes which seemed about the right fit:
Not sure what, if any, benefit these will yield but they have become looser about the mechanism since they were first fitted, although the screws fixing the latch and the fastener are still solid.
So there we go, fellow Westerners, yet another tale of woe, but I remain steadfastly resolute in my goal to get it finished.
Cheers for now, and apologies once again for the unduly long winded post.
Jonte
Roger Pound
Western Thunderer
Jon ,
I was fascinated by your efforts to connect the boards and have the rails aligned. This is a problem I think that many of us have met at one time or another. It has made me realize that I was fortunate in that I constructed my baseboards (two 5'6" x 2'6") myself and was able to clamp the frames together in to accurate alignment before putting on the surface plywood. I allowed me to drill horizontally to accept both a pair of dowels plus a pair of M6 bolts which screwed into Tee nuts on the opposing board, thus providing four points of rigid location and secure joining of the boards with the bolts. This is, I suppose, a belt and braces method in it's own way, of the type you like yourself. It may well be criticized by some, but my humble experience has shown that it is simple to do and the result is reliable not to mention being relatively inexpensive.
On the question of switches and wiring - I bow to the super tidiness of your 'under-board' wiring work. My own tends to look like a spaghetti factory reject - perhaps my lack of affection for that type of work is relevant ........! Moving on, the prototype photograph is indeed interesting - the actual track layout would appear to have interesting prospects in it's own right. Of course, you could always use that plan on a second 'Minories' project....
Now running for cover!
Roger.
I was fascinated by your efforts to connect the boards and have the rails aligned. This is a problem I think that many of us have met at one time or another. It has made me realize that I was fortunate in that I constructed my baseboards (two 5'6" x 2'6") myself and was able to clamp the frames together in to accurate alignment before putting on the surface plywood. I allowed me to drill horizontally to accept both a pair of dowels plus a pair of M6 bolts which screwed into Tee nuts on the opposing board, thus providing four points of rigid location and secure joining of the boards with the bolts. This is, I suppose, a belt and braces method in it's own way, of the type you like yourself. It may well be criticized by some, but my humble experience has shown that it is simple to do and the result is reliable not to mention being relatively inexpensive.
On the question of switches and wiring - I bow to the super tidiness of your 'under-board' wiring work. My own tends to look like a spaghetti factory reject - perhaps my lack of affection for that type of work is relevant ........
! Moving on, the prototype photograph is indeed interesting - the actual track layout would appear to have interesting prospects in it's own right. Of course, you could always use that plan on a second 'Minories' project....Now running for cover
!Roger.
Jon
Your electrical problems are not unknown in the real world, I spent my 50 years working life in industrial electrical engineering. The problems are fun. In the first 20 years on mainly maintenance & support. The next 30 on design and mainly site supervision & support during installation testing and commissioning of some big manufacturing plants. Your problems are not much different to the world outside your railway.
Just keep going and it will work (at least until the next problem pops up
)
Regards
Allen Morgan
Your electrical problems are not unknown in the real world, I spent my 50 years working life in industrial electrical engineering. The problems are fun. In the first 20 years on mainly maintenance & support. The next 30 on design and mainly site supervision & support during installation testing and commissioning of some big manufacturing plants. Your problems are not much different to the world outside your railway.
Just keep going and it will work (at least until the next problem pops up
)Regards
Allen Morgan
jonte
Western Thunderer
Jon ,
I was fascinated by your efforts to connect the boards and have the rails aligned. This is a problem I think that many of us have met at one time or another. It has made me realize that I was fortunate in that I constructed my baseboards (two 5'6" x 2'6") myself and was able to clamp the frames together in to accurate alignment before putting on the surface plywood. I allowed me to drill horizontally to accept both a pair of dowels plus a pair of M6 bolts which screwed into Tee nuts on the opposing board, thus providing four points of rigid location and secure joining of the boards with the bolts. This is, I suppose, a belt and braces method in it's own way, of the type you like yourself. It may well be criticized by some, but my humble experience has shown that it is simple to do and the result is reliable not to mention being relatively inexpensive.
On the question of switches and wiring - I bow to the super tidiness of your 'under-board' wiring work. My own tends to look like a spaghetti factory reject - perhaps my lack of affection for that type of work is relevant ........
Now running for cover
Roger.
Wise words in respect of the dowels and bolts, Roger, and exactly what I should have done
I envy your peace of mind
Many thanks for the compliment re the wiring, but I think you may have been a bit hasty when you see the final results in my next post
, but I’m grateful that you popped in to tell me!In respect of Minories 2: I reckon that every modeller should attempt Minories at some time in their lives, and I recall you mentioning that you did so many moons ago and thoroughly enjoyed the experience. I’m looking forward to many wonderful ways to enjoy it too along with our new addition whose arrival is imminent and actually overdue! I’m sure we can lose many hours having fun flicking all those switches!
As regards to a second version as you kindly suggest, Roger, I think one is quite sufficient in my lifetime, especially with the dilemmas and disasters I’ve faced thus far, although much of it due to my lack of forethought or just pure inexperience. Perhaps in the next, hey?
Best wishes,
Jon
jonte
Western Thunderer
Jon
Your electrical problems are not unknown in the real world, I spent my 50 years working life in industrial electrical engineering. The problems are fun. In the first 20 years on mainly maintenance & support. The next 30 on design and mainly site supervision & support during installation testing and commissioning of some big manufacturing plants. Your problems are not much different to the world outside your railway.
Just keep going and it will work (at least until the next problem pops up
Regards
Allen Morgan
Hi Allen, and thank you for your kind reassurance and moral support. Good to know that even the experts have off days!
Talking of problems…..
Cheers,
Jonte
jonte
Western Thunderer
Well, the wiring on the second board is finally finished:
Despite a box of Lord knows how many wire clips, I quickly ran out and had to resort to attaching loose hanging wires to those that were fixed using a loop of thin wire. My excuse for all that spaghetti!
Next time, I can place the board the right way up, clean the rails and see if it actually works.
I’ll let you know how it goes.
Jonte
Despite a box of Lord knows how many wire clips, I quickly ran out and had to resort to attaching loose hanging wires to those that were fixed using a loop of thin wire. My excuse for all that spaghetti!
Next time, I can place the board the right way up, clean the rails and see if it actually works.
I’ll let you know how it goes.
Jonte
jonte
Western Thunderer
A beautiful day as forecasted arrived, fellow Westerners, so an early start was made before it got a little too warm out there.
Not too good a start in fact, as a wire became detached from a socket on the first board, which will feed the latest board, as I threaded it through those perpendicular holes. A brief examination revealed that my soldered joint was still in tact; the broken wire piece to which it was attached had given up the ghost and fractured. A hazard, I guess of using old equipment
Anyway, one of the benefits of good weather is that I can solder outside, so once the iron was set up, a new wire was made good and fast and linked to the Bus.
Here are the feeds from board one to two in situ:
Certainly not exhibition standard but will do for what we want
In the end, it was a mixed bag of results, fellow Westerners.
The good news was that the feeds had worked and my only engine in ownership dawdled delightfully towards each of the isolated ends; only they didn’t isolate
8F heading precariously towards the edge before my sudden intervention.
Thankfully,I’m still quite quick on the draw and managed to grasp my pride and joy before it took a tumble. Although the engine hadn’t taken a tumble, my heart certainly did, and myriad thoughts raced through my brain as to what might be the cause(s). Was it a property of DCC that it carried current differently? (Ridiculous!); was I sold the correct switches, after all, they all look the same? (The fact that these had only two tags instead of three like all the other types of used sank this idea). And so it went. The thought of more weight lifting with those unwieldy boards and perhaps having to pull the wiring to the switches apart to investigate the cause didn’t sit well with me Then it suddenly occurred to me that perhaps the tender had pick ups? Removing the tender revealed that I was right. In all honesty, it’s unlikely I’ll be using large tender locos such as this so I can’t see it being too much of a problem, and if I do, I might just have to consider removing the pick ups: or just concentrate
Here’s the loco paused at the isolated end of the same road as the first picture; this time without tender:
Anyway, the bad news, why does there always have to be bad news too(?), was that there is a hump in one of the roads on the first board where it approaches the soldered screws. It’s the middle road in this picture:
It’s strikingly obvious when the loco reverses from the latest board to the previous one, although the long wheel base of the 8F exacerbates the case somewhat. But I can’t live with that, I’m afraid. It’s going to have to go; which will mean lifting the track and probably removing at least one set of screws to introduce a gradual slope which I can see being the only cure
I left my den with a heavy heart, I’m sad to report, fellow Westerners.
Coupled with this, at least two of the points have blades that protrude, one of which can’t be cured with deft use of a Swiss file, and will require the addition of a scrap piece of brass etch I saved from that Finney kit, although why I should have to make good brand new points is beyond me.
Really feel like starting again with new boards and say Code 75, but this time, purchasing the track in person instead via post so that I can examine them before purchase. And I’d definitely go back to laying the track directly to the baseboard, to reduce the risk of any undue ‘incline’ (I only did so to accommodate those darned pillars; I could easily have remade them).
Anyway, time to stop licking my wounds and sort out this mess.
Bye for now, folks.
Jonte
Not too good a start in fact, as a wire became detached from a socket on the first board, which will feed the latest board, as I threaded it through those perpendicular holes. A brief examination revealed that my soldered joint was still in tact; the broken wire piece to which it was attached had given up the ghost and fractured. A hazard, I guess of using old equipment
Anyway, one of the benefits of good weather is that I can solder outside, so once the iron was set up, a new wire was made good and fast and linked to the Bus.
Here are the feeds from board one to two in situ:
Certainly not exhibition standard but will do for what we want
In the end, it was a mixed bag of results, fellow Westerners.
The good news was that the feeds had worked and my only engine in ownership dawdled delightfully towards each of the isolated ends; only they didn’t isolate
8F heading precariously towards the edge before my sudden intervention.
Thankfully,I’m still quite quick on the draw and managed to grasp my pride and joy before it took a tumble. Although the engine hadn’t taken a tumble, my heart certainly did, and myriad thoughts raced through my brain as to what might be the cause(s). Was it a property of DCC that it carried current differently? (Ridiculous!); was I sold the correct switches, after all, they all look the same? (The fact that these had only two tags instead of three like all the other types of used sank this idea). And so it went. The thought of more weight lifting with those unwieldy boards and perhaps having to pull the wiring to the switches apart to investigate the cause didn’t sit well with me
Then it suddenly occurred to me that perhaps the tender had pick ups? Removing the tender revealed that I was right. In all honesty, it’s unlikely I’ll be using large tender locos such as this so I can’t see it being too much of a problem, and if I do, I might just have to consider removing the pick ups: or just concentrate Here’s the loco paused at the isolated end of the same road as the first picture; this time without tender:
Anyway, the bad news, why does there always have to be bad news too(?), was that there is a hump in one of the roads on the first board where it approaches the soldered screws. It’s the middle road in this picture:
It’s strikingly obvious when the loco reverses from the latest board to the previous one, although the long wheel base of the 8F exacerbates the case somewhat. But I can’t live with that, I’m afraid. It’s going to have to go; which will mean lifting the track and probably removing at least one set of screws to introduce a gradual slope which I can see being the only cure
I left my den with a heavy heart, I’m sad to report, fellow Westerners.
Coupled with this, at least two of the points have blades that protrude, one of which can’t be cured with deft use of a Swiss file, and will require the addition of a scrap piece of brass etch I saved from that Finney kit, although why I should have to make good brand new points is beyond me.
Really feel like starting again with new boards and say Code 75, but this time, purchasing the track in person instead via post so that I can examine them before purchase. And I’d definitely go back to laying the track directly to the baseboard, to reduce the risk of any undue ‘incline’ (I only did so to accommodate those darned pillars; I could easily have remade them
).Anyway, time to stop licking my wounds and sort out this mess.
Bye for now, folks.
Jonte