4mm Monks: perhaps NOT a Classic Minories - for a grandchild.

[jonte]

Pleased to inform you, my fellow Westerners, that the dry joint kindly diagnosed by @Bill Campbell has been repaired and normal service has resumed

Lady Luck must have been smiling upon me as I managed to get the iron and ancillaries out and back, and a new wire attached to the fishplate just before the rain returned.

This won’t come off in a hurry as fixed solid with rosin cored solder:



I vow never to allow electrical solder anywhere near this layout again

A successful test being conducted; the engine has passed the point of stalling at the crossing nose:



Despite my prep last night, that hole still had to lengthened to allow the ‘plate to be cajoled onto the rail:



Apart from that, not a lot else to report apart from the loco occasionally stopping of its own volition (the ‘Stop’ icon illuminates on the handheld display). When I depress the stop button, it moves off again

Thinking the the track might need cleaning with some sort of solvent again as this only happened after the track was primed (painted in one or two cases). It was cleaned immediately with turps on a cotton twice, then wiped over with a piece of denim cloth.

The other possibility- perhaps one or two with a knowledge of DCC might know whether there’s any basis to my combobulation- is that the batteries on the handset probably need replacing as the range isn’t what it was, so perhaps when the signal is ‘lost’ the loco/system defaults to ‘stop’ for safety?

I’d really appreciate your thoughts on this if it’s okay?

Otherwise, all ship shape, and the slow running afforded by DCC is a sight to behold.

Not a lot else I can do today, except tidy the model room as it’s become a bit of a hole over the last week or so, especially the bench, with tools of every sort and tinlets of paint strewn everywhere. I’ll need the space anyway to open out both boards so I can crack on with the second board, which I’m itching to start.

So there we are. Delighted to feel as though I’m getting somewhere; please let me know your thoughts on the stopping loco.

Cheers,

Jonte

 

[Yorkshire Dave]

Apart from that, not a lot else to report apart from the loco occasionally stopping of its own volition (the ‘Stop’ icon illuminates on the handheld display). When I depress the stop button, it moves off again

This usually indicates a short somewhere - more than likely with the loco as it traverses the pointwork. As for diagnosis...

1. Test another or more DCC loco(s) first - if this is/they are okay then the track is fine.

2. I'm not well up with 'modern' produced 4mm RTR stuff but I would check the errant loco to make sure the chassis, valve gear etc on either side are insulated from each other. It could be one of the wheel rims is catching the chassis/valve gear somewhere or even one of the wheels is catching both the running rail and switch/point blade simultaneously.

 

[jonte]

This usually indicates a short somewhere - more than likely with the loco as it traverses the pointwork. As for diagnosis...

1. Test another or more DCC loco(s) first - if this is/they are okay then the track is fine.

2. I'm not well up with 'modern' produced 4mm RTR stuff but I would check the errant loco to make sure the chassis, valve gear etc on either side are insulated from each other. It could be one of the wheel rims is catching the chassis/valve gear somewhere or even one of the wheels is catching both the running rail and switch/point blade simultaneously.

Many thanks, Dave, for your prompt response and valuable assistance as always.

Re point 1: at the risk of sounding facetious, Dave, I’ve only got the one DCC loco and it’s this one

Re point 2: I shall check as you advise, but it was running fine until I primed the rails

Now here’s a thing:

Curiosity got the best of me while I waited for a helpful soul like your good self to respond, and as the electric stuff is well over my head, I decided to attack the basics: Track (basically cleaning it again).

You may recall me saying that I’d rubbed it clean of primer and paint with Turps twice, on each occasion following it up with a wipe of some denim cloth. Well, mooching about the garage I found a bottle of Meths that I hadn’t drunk and thought I’d give that a go. To be honest, I thought it would be a waste of time, but you know what thought did:



I couldn’t believe that the track could be that filthy after what I thought was a good clean

So, I watched as my trusty steed went forwards and backwards without event. It did stop once (again the ‘Stop’ icon lit up, but then it continued on its merry way when I pressed it again - as before), so I cleaned the spot again and it was fine after that, although I ensured that the handset remained next to the base station from then on (I’m definitely going to change those batteries - at least if it happens again, it’s one option eliminated).

So there we go, Dave, as I write no more stalling.

I shall bear in mind your kind advice, but perhaps it was just poor husbandry after all

Cheers

Jonte

 

[Phil O]

A bit late to this party, but back tracking to your wheel dropping problem, this is sometimes caused by the wheel back to backs being a bit tight, where possible easing the wheels out to 14.5 mm or possibly a a tad more may well improve the situation.

 

[jonte]

A bit late to this party, but back tracking to your wheel dropping problem, this is sometimes caused by the wheel back to backs being a bit tight, where possible easing the wheels out to 14.5 mm or possibly a a tad more may well improve the situation.

Hi Phil

Better late than never provided you bring a bottle (as long as it’s not Meths; got a bottle of that already).

Funnily enough, I sort of resolved this one - in part anyway.

You see I’ve been testing the track curvature, smoothness of running through the points and overhang using this old Hornby coach:



Although I think I was originally referring to the wheel drop issue with the Grange, whilst testing with the coach, I couldn’t help noticing it dropped at every point, and it was during a break in soldering whilst we still had that fine spell of weather, that I remembered that this had been sitting in the draw and never used in anger:



I remember reading that some modellers had altered the ‘btb’s on wagons and coaches, so thought I might just give it a go whilst thinking about it. After all, the coach was purchased on line for the princely sum of a tenner, so if it all went awry, well, nothing lost and cheaper than breaking the 8F

Removing the axles was a sinch ; replacing them however was another story, thus only one bogie has been altered.

When I examined the wheelsets, I noticed that there was a sort of soft rubber-like washer twixt wheel hub and axle which made it easy to adjust: which they needed as the gauge was either too tight or wouldn’t fit between.

Needless to say, when I returned the coach to the track for testing, it glided through! Way to go

Whether I’ll ever expose the 8F or any other RTR to this coarse treatment - despite being the owner of a GW wheel puller -=is anyone’s guess. Recent thinking has me considering my first chassis conversion: a Bachmann Jinty with a replacement Comet chassis (fixed axles as never been tried before), as the wheelsets are set to the correct btb so unlikely to encounter wheel drop.

So, that’s the thinking.

And a Jinty for a Western based BR themed layout you might not ask?

Well, the real Mollington was home to this elderly lady which was an actual pilot loco for the area so would likely have been employed on Monks:



Photo borrowed from Bankhall Shed website for reference.

So that’s my excuse

Thanks again for dropping by with some advice, Phil. Really appreciate it. Let me know what you think

Jonte

 

[jonte]

Considering I wasn’t going to post as often, I don’t think I’ve stopped since, fellow Westerners, as too much has been going wrong, but thought you might just be interested in the half-baked solutions I’ve conjured up.

As not much done today in terms of construction, I thought I’d turn my attention to that ballasting issue that several of you have been kind enough to assist me with.

The problem, as those of you who are kind enough to read this ‘stuff’ will know, is that I appear to suffer from a Peco Streamline track dysmorphia: I don’t like the ballast being too deep! I also don’t like the way my original idea turned out, so what to do?

On examination, I noticed that a well is formed between adjacent sleepers and the webs either side, these being higher than the board but very handily lower than the sleeper tops - cue Brucie! - which would leave a shadow after each sleeper, hence giving the illusion of being bulkier. Stay with me, I know what I mean!

So I created a test piece (bit of rail pinned to a piece of cork rescued from the bin) to try out the theory:



Apologies for the out of focus shot, but hopefully you can just make out the ‘well’.

I then dropped in some ballast and brushed off the excess with a paint brush into the next well along, working my way along the track in this fashion. Takes time but not as bad as you’d think as the overspill tends to spill over the tops of the web preventing the full-up look I don’t want.

Here’s what it looked like at end of today’s play:



This can then be glued down in the manner advised by my good friends with dropper, washing up liquid and a choice of adhesive (ensuring ballast wetted first). Think I’ve got that about right. Then the outside bits can be achieved using my own method: layering the glue on up to the required height against the sleepers ends and sprinkling it on in ‘glitter on Christmas card’ fashion.

Thanks for reading.

Jonte

Edit to say that thinking about it, I’ll probably get some card a little thinner (lower) than the web height and glue it/place it a short distance from sleeper ends, in effect shuttering. This will creat another well with the outside of the web which I can fill with ballast and glue as before. The glitter idea would be difficult getting between the sleepers without thee risk of glue getting on the sleepers. Jonte.

 

[jonte]

Before I forget, you may recall thatI was curious as to why the the ‘stop’ icon would illuminate when the loco occasionally stalled.

I considered that the batteries could be failing on the handset reducing its range, the unit automatically defaulting to ‘stop’ (plausible otherwise you’d get the model aircraft scenario when out of range of the transmitter; in that case never seen again, in ours, off the end of the table !).

How I came to this conclusion I’ve no idea as I generally have not a clue of what I’m talking about. So, why do I mention it?

In a token tidy up earlier this evening, I decidedto glance at the instruction booklet which fell out of the box as I was putting the controller back in. To be fair, there’s only half a side or so on icons so I decided to scan it. Lo and behold, I was right.

Hopefully this might help somebody else experiencing similar problems, but as I’m the LCD in this business it’s unlikely as you probably already know. How on Earth I came up with this, I’ve no idea, apart from to say that wonders never cease.

Good night.

Jonte

 

[Phil O]

I think you need to get brave, check the back to back of your stock and open it up if it needs and build up your confidence, rolling stock wheels are not expensive if you wreck a wheel set. Once you have gained confidence, youmight look at doing your locos. Just remember to do both wheels an equal amount on each axle, using the GW wheel puller, just do a quarter turn of the tommy bar on each wheel, unless the B2B is well under 14.5mm.

 

[jonte]

I think you need to get brave, check the back to back of your stock and open it up if it needs and build up your confidence, rolling stock wheels are not expensive if you wreck a wheel set. Once you have gained confidence, youmight look at doing your locos. Just remember to do both wheels an equal amount on each axle, using the GW wheel puller, just do a quarter turn of the tommy bar on each wheel, unless the B2B is well under 14.5mm.

You’re absolutely right, Phil, thank you.

My only concern with the 8F is that the valve gear obscures the axle(s); would I have to remove the valve gear to get at the boss?

Cheers

Jonte

 

[Phil O]

Hi Jonte,

I'm not entirely sure, you may need to remove the cylinders, this may then release the valve gear sufficiently to allow access to the axle ends, you may need to rotate the wheels slightly to gain access. Have you checked the back to back?

 

[simond]

Yes, if it’s ok, there’s no need to cross the bridge of How-do-I-fix-it

 

[jonte]

Hi Jonte,

I'm not entirely sure, you may need to remove the cylinders, this may then release the valve gear sufficiently to allow access to the axle ends, you may need to rotate the wheels slightly to gain access. Have you checked the back to back?

Hi Phil and thank you for your kind offer of help.

To be honest, Phil, apart from messing with the coach I mentioned a couple of posts back, I’ve not considered the issue since.

It’s gone onto the ever-increasing to-do list. I mention the 8F as an example of a loco with lots of ‘gear’, the loco in itself not being too bad in this respect (but could be better), although the pony truck is an ‘odd’ mover (loco moves first, then wheels follow, what’s that all about?). The Grange was definitely a ‘dropper’ but as it’s DC not too bothered at present. Might move it on .

When I get a minute, I’ll have a look and report back

Jonte

 

[jonte]

Good morning/afternoon, fellow Westerners.

Although I’d considered leaving the next part of the build off the thread at the risk of boring you all to tears as really it’s just more of the same, I’ve since decided against it as a result of one or two kind expressions of ‘continued’ interest, so here we go.

First, I did a little bit of shopping in preparation at Toolfix:



Notice the liquid latex for ballasting. Many thanks to @simond for this

The next bit of prep: erection of marquee outside model room for when it comes to a spot of soldering, as still raining:



Please excuse state of garden; August signals the end of the summer for me (the pink buckets contain tomato plants and were a present from a little lady next door). A sad time.

Unfortunately, much of the soldering planned is to the trackwork across the joint. As the unit is too bulky to lift out and extend in the current climate, I’ll just have to suffer the fumes inside and take one for the layout. Thankfully, the smaller tasks like wires to rails can be done in the marquee.

Onto the job:

First job was to remove that darned overhead beam as before, to make the job of marking out for screws a lot easier:



Then the job of fitting the screws could begin. Still couldn’t get drill in so pilot holes made with nail first followed by sacrificial screw.

Here are the screws in place:



Now that these are in place, the job of soldering the rail ends on board one can be conducted, using the track on the new board to ensure continuity.

Cheers for now.

Jonte

 

[jonte]

Now I really can move onto the second board:



Jonte

 

[simond]

Jon,

you are adjusting the screws to get the height right before soldering?

It would be an amazing coincidence if the heights were correct, and all the slots were parallel with the rail….

 

[jonte]

Jon,

you are adjusting the screws to get the height right before soldering?

It would be an amazing coincidence if the heights were correct, and all the slots were parallel with the rail….

Absolutely, Simon

Have you spotted something that would make you think otherwise, something I haven’t perhaps?

I laid a length of rail on board two from the ends of the rails on the existing board one to ensure continuity of join, which is the reason I’ve waited until now before soldering the ends. I did adjust the rails as best as I could when I put the first set of screws in. Luckily, only the set nearest the camera in the last shot needed adjusting

I think this shot might show the fixings and the soldered joints better than the last which might have been out of focus:



Hope that’s clearer.

Cheers for now,

Jonte

 

[simond]

Hi Jon,

It was the uniformity of orientation of the unsoldered ones on the left that prompted the question!

Atb
Simon

 

[Yorkshire Dave]

Hi Jonte

Something you may wish to consider at the board joints. From experience, no matter how precise I am with alignment and track laying, I have found they can still be susceptible to temperature and humidity variations - which may knock them slightly out of alignment.

To assist with the smooth passage of wheels so they do not bounce/clunk on the end of the cut rail I run a file at around 50 deg to the railhead end and 3o deg to vertical on the inner edges just to nick the corners to remove the square edge. One pass of a large file is sufficient followed by cleaning up.

 

[simond]

Good call.

Same-same on my turntable

Simon

 

[jonte]

Hi Jon,

It was the uniformity of orientation of the unsoldered ones on the left that prompted the question!

Atb
Simon

Hi again, Simon.

Those on the left that you can see are soldered too. Just cleaned them up a bit better than others

Jon

Edit: Just realised it’s the previous piccie you’re referring to, Simon