Eastsidepilot
Western Thunderer
...................Me? Well, I dig out the GAs and start having fun...
Steph
Good Lad
Col.
My 7mm dabblings
- Thread starter mickoo
- Start date
Good Lad
Col.
mickoo
Western Thunderer
Steph, I can go with that, but the tender stretchers are pretty obvious through those great big holes in the sides of the frames, still they are a perfect shape to learn to photo etch and get fitted, not sure I'll add the little fillets though LOL
Still the first problem is some wheels and working out the best way to spring and or add ball bearings, bit fancy for a tender I know but easy enough to recover if you mess it all up. I think the continuous piano wire spring beam suits my ideals at the moment, watching locos at West Mersea it looks like the best way to make stock look like the real thing with out jerking and lurching is very good PW, I was impressed by the complete lack of drop on point noses for example. In fact I think the track at West Mersea and Love Lane are that good you could run without any springing at all, Mudhens JLTRT had no issues on the day and that's solid bogies. That's not to say there are other layouts that do not reach that level or even higher, just that I haven't seen them in the flesh or had the privilege to touchy feel and poke and examine in detail. Overall I was most impressed with S7 PW, its looks and smoothness.
Further discussions revolved around R/C and battery supply so there's not even any need to ensure good electrical contact with springing, if you just want to make a loco go back and forth then R/C looks attractive, more than one then it could be an issue with controllers or frequency, I.E. double heading, it's sound that might be the issue and hearing sound yesterday on both steam and diesel has me hooked
.
I do have some 4000gal GA's so yes, let the fun begin
Still the first problem is some wheels and working out the best way to spring and or add ball bearings, bit fancy for a tender I know but easy enough to recover if you mess it all up. I think the continuous piano wire spring beam suits my ideals at the moment, watching locos at West Mersea it looks like the best way to make stock look like the real thing with out jerking and lurching is very good PW, I was impressed by the complete lack of drop on point noses for example. In fact I think the track at West Mersea and Love Lane are that good you could run without any springing at all, Mudhens JLTRT had no issues on the day and that's solid bogies. That's not to say there are other layouts that do not reach that level or even higher, just that I haven't seen them in the flesh or had the privilege to touchy feel and poke and examine in detail. Overall I was most impressed with S7 PW, its looks and smoothness.
Further discussions revolved around R/C and battery supply so there's not even any need to ensure good electrical contact with springing, if you just want to make a loco go back and forth then R/C looks attractive, more than one then it could be an issue with controllers or frequency, I.E. double heading, it's sound that might be the issue and hearing sound yesterday on both steam and diesel has me hooked
.I do have some 4000gal GA's so yes, let the fun begin
alcazar
Guest
Diesel sound was what REALLY sold me on 7mm scale, although one has to be careful WHICH diesel. The Deltic, for example, sounds awful unless SOME bass can be found..........
Class 20's and 40's, on the other hand, are brilliant.
Steam........? ah, no, the ones I've seen are more than disappointing, being not much better than the old Mainline "chuff".
They need more bass, (difficult in that size body), they need the chuffs to be synchronised, they need to have the CORRECT number of cylinders and they need to be NOT generic. If you can't have all those, I'd not bother........
Oh, and when I was a kid, steam locos DID NOT whistle every 100 yds.......and every time they start/stop/enter a station/leave a station etc etc etc. Nor did/do diesels hoot........
Class 20's and 40's, on the other hand, are brilliant.
Steam........? ah, no, the ones I've seen are more than disappointing, being not much better than the old Mainline "chuff".
They need more bass, (difficult in that size body), they need the chuffs to be synchronised, they need to have the CORRECT number of cylinders and they need to be NOT generic. If you can't have all those, I'd not bother........
Oh, and when I was a kid, steam locos DID NOT whistle every 100 yds.......and every time they start/stop/enter a station/leave a station etc etc etc. Nor did/do diesels hoot........
mickoo
Western Thunderer
With you on steam, I've seen a lot of videos where the chuffing continues right down to 0 mph, hmm bit of a show killer that, but, the ones I saw yesterday sounded like steam trains, all 2cyl though but in sync with the wheels and yes could do with a bit more bass, even coasted quite well, very well actually, only thing missing was the chink chink chink from the anti vacuum valves, but they may well have been hidden inside on the 1:1 locos so wouldn't have been heard anyway?
I think the secret to good steam sounds are well set up CV's, out of the box I think there pretty dire if what I've read is correct.
mickoo
Western Thunderer
JB, from what I can gather there are only two real alternatives, Zimo and Loksound, not sure yet how each prices against the other and viz functionality/modability. I looked into Loksound and it seemd to allow a lot of flexibility to set up the CV, but never got round to researching Zimo.
Tim Humphreys ex Mudhen
Western Thunderer
Mick
My locos use Loksound so for the next I am going to try a Zimo chip, provided I can get one with 3 cylinder sound. It will be interesting to compare them. JB where did you say your Zimo chips come from, my memory has failed me after the excitement of the party
Tim
My locos use Loksound so for the next I am going to try a Zimo chip, provided I can get one with 3 cylinder sound. It will be interesting to compare them. JB where did you say your Zimo chips come from, my memory has failed me after the excitement of the party
Tim
Scale7JB
Western Thunderer
Hi Tim,
I got my last one from digitrains ( i should be on commission! )
The Zimo chips have a built in function to use a cam for synchronising chuffs, as I'm sure Loksound probably do too.. The cam is pretty easy to fit, and infallible compared to programming the virtual cam on the chip... I really need to find space to put one on the G5.
Hobbyhorse developments do both a 2 and 3 cylinder version. Plenty of space between the K3 frames Tim!
JB.
I got my last one from digitrains ( i should be on commission! )
The Zimo chips have a built in function to use a cam for synchronising chuffs, as I'm sure Loksound probably do too.. The cam is pretty easy to fit, and infallible compared to programming the virtual cam on the chip... I really need to find space to put one on the G5.
Hobbyhorse developments do both a 2 and 3 cylinder version. Plenty of space between the K3 frames Tim!
JB.
Tim Humphreys ex Mudhen
Western Thunderer
thanks JB, much appreciated
Tim
Tim
mickoo
Western Thunderer
Mick
My locos use Loksound so for the next I am going to try a Zimo chip, provided I can get one with 3 cylinder sound. It will be interesting to compare them. JB where did you say your Zimo chips come from, my memory has failed me after the excitement of the party
Tim
Tim, both yours and JBs locos sounded fine to me, I liked the coasting from both examples (Zimo/Loksound) especially the class 40 and all steamers seemed to be in perfect sync with the wheels.
Eastsidepilot
Western Thunderer
JB,
How about shaping one of the crank webs as a cam, there not seen and would save space, although it would prove difficult know the cranks built up.
Col.
Scale7JB
Western Thunderer
It's an idea, but im not going anywhere near them now, far too scared of them doing something bad..!
JB.
alcazar
Guest
One of the problems here is finding out what the REAL thing sounds like.
To those of us old enough to remember, the idea of a "steam engine" representing, say, a WD 2-8-0 is the same as putting the sound of an American diesel into a Western...sacrilage.
Individual steam locos sound so different. Anyone who doesn't believe me, go and record a Stanier Duchess starting off, then record a Stanier Rebuilt Scot and finally a Black 5. Entirely different.
My steamers will be, (if I ever get round to building any), without sound until I can have authentic sounds.
To those of us old enough to remember, the idea of a "steam engine" representing, say, a WD 2-8-0 is the same as putting the sound of an American diesel into a Western...sacrilage.
Individual steam locos sound so different. Anyone who doesn't believe me, go and record a Stanier Duchess starting off, then record a Stanier Rebuilt Scot and finally a Black 5. Entirely different.
My steamers will be, (if I ever get round to building any), without sound until I can have authentic sounds.
Buckjumper
Flying Squad
That's a fair enough sentiment if there are any surviving members of the class, and in this respect JB is lucky as although the class is extinct there is a G5 new build under way.
However, sometimes you have to make do with something close based upon a number of factors. Can anyone remember what a GWR 633 class sounded like? I bet if you put a 57xx sound chip in no one would know the difference.
However, sometimes you have to make do with something close based upon a number of factors. Can anyone remember what a GWR 633 class sounded like? I bet if you put a 57xx sound chip in no one would know the difference.
mickoo
Western Thunderer
In this instance I'd concur, Duchess is 4cyl, Scot 3cyl and Black 5 is 2cyl so they should all sound different, but I'd offer that the difference between a Black 5 and say 8F or Stanier Mogul might not be so different, or rebuilt Patriot and rebuilt Scot. As Adrian points out sometimes the authentic sound is no longer possible so in those cases, closest possible would have to be sufficient.
alcazar
Guest
And I can't disagree with those last two comments.
But my proviso would be this: if there's nowt close, do without.
We spend hours agonising over a grille: is it fixed or should it be hinged at that date? Do we have that line of rivets in the right place? Is that chimney correct? That dome? What about that Western front end? That 47 "face"?
So surely, to put the wrong sound in is worse?
But my proviso would be this: if there's nowt close, do without.
We spend hours agonising over a grille: is it fixed or should it be hinged at that date? Do we have that line of rivets in the right place? Is that chimney correct? That dome? What about that Western front end? That 47 "face"?
So surely, to put the wrong sound in is worse?
Tim Humphreys ex Mudhen
Western Thunderer
I would suggest that if we are not completely sure about the shape of a chimney or fittings on a grill we fit something that is as close as we can estimate; we wouldn't leave them off the model; so why leave out sound because we are not absolutely sure it is correct. After all the chip can always be re-loaded at a later date with the correct sound should it become available.
Just my tuppence worth
Tim
Just my tuppence worth
Tim
mickoo
Western Thunderer
I'm sure most people, somewhere in their modelling accept compromise or reduced authenticity, just depends an what each individual is happy to accept. I know the areas I would accept compromise and I am pretty sure they will be at odds with many others, I don't have a problem with that, I hope they don't either when the situations inevitably arise.
Kindest
Kindest