Red Caboose GP9 kits - ALL builders/Models/Info/References welcome

[JasonD]

Dammit JB, the bad parrot has seized my finger and is typing the truth ... nothing till the Winchester Meet in October. But the good parrot has a stronger beak and is reminding me to mention the WWOGG at Trowbridge where I often go and regular track nights at Winchester and maybe Alton now they've restarted, when there sounds like a good reason to go.
Jason

 

[JasonD]

... I do still have one more F9 in stock for my other GP9, but I still have a scratch to itch in trying to do a F9 A-B unit. Which shows are you at next?

JB.

Answer about next shows in previous post(!). A B-unit for Atlas/Roco just needs another F9 bodyshell ... I have a couple. I always wondered if I'd end up with lots of F9 noses so I could partsbash some Australian diesels? I'll get the camera out again.
Jason

 

[richard carr]

I took the other bogie cover plate off the F unit today, this is what I found




You can see the nice brass bearing that the wheelsets run in, that is probably the original grease too.
Once you take the wheelset out you can see the springs.



Look closely at the wheel set though and the gear has split, the other gear hadn't, so only 1 out of 4 hadn't split.

 

[Scale7JB]

I don’t think I had realised that the axles were sprung. Way ahead of their time.

JB.

 

[JasonD]

Hi Richard
Four approaches with those fractured F9 gears:
1. Get suitable brass tubing cut to shortish lengths to grip both untoothed sides of the centre gears. I promise I've seen this done.
2. Replace the wheelset with spares from my pics, unless you want P48.
3. Send NWSL an email request, they only seem to do 33"/36" 'Atlas/Europe' wheels on the website. Replacement NWSL .115 40" wheels for my replacement wheelsets with the intact axle-centre gear if you're sticking to the original Atlas/Roco drive and going P48.

Or go P&D/Weaver style replacement

 

[Yorkshire Dave]

Hi Richard - following on from Jason these are the NWSL replacement geared wheelsets available for the Roco O GP9/F9 drive truck you've illustrated. There are four axles per set i.e. enough to replace all of them.

NWSL Geared replacement wheelsets O scale.

 

[JasonD]

Thanks Dave, I was getting grumpy. How many Americans know they were made by Roco? Ah well, fresh ball of string and I'll try and work out where I went wrong!

 

[Yorkshire Dave]

Quite a bit of Atlas O was made by Roco, and by Kato in HO scale.

 

[richard carr]

Dave

Thanks for the link so am I correct in thinking they are for 2 rail but not for P48 ?

Richard

 

[JasonD]

Richard
There are 4 options in Dave's link:
1: wheel width .172". The first NMRA choice, way back.
2: .145" a compromise forced on and later adopted by the NMRA
3: .115" a suggestion which the NMRA thought was promising and were looking at until realists said they couldn't lay so much track around their huge basements to such close standards (see point 2)
4. P48: true 1:48 scale focussing on the wheel profile and track gauge, like Scale7 does.

Go for 2 if you want to run stuff at local clubs. I've been modelling O since before P48 took off, so I'm committed.
Jason

 

[Big Train James]

To add to Jason's list, options 1 through 3 are all gauged for 5'-0" track. Only option 4 is gauged for 4'-8½" track. The .115" wheel profile is the same for options 3 and 4, just the gauge is different.

The vast majority of 2-railers run the .145"/5'-0" gauge wheels (option 2). The p48 crowd obviously choose option 4. There is a very small group that uses option 3. I've actually considered it, since in my opinion the wheel profile and corresponding placement of sideframes are the bigger contributors to the improved aesthetic. But then I figured if I was going to lay my own track, which was likely, then why not just make it to the correct gauge.

Jason does raise a good point, which is what environment do you want to run your trains in? P48 equipped stock generally doesn't play well with 5'-0" gauge track, so you may need to evaluate and make sure you have the right friends.

 

[JasonD]

I was lucky James, when I started the choice was 2- or 3-rail. 1/4-inch AAR was a passing interest on the cover of RMC. As a diesel modeller with a garden railroad even hand-built turnouts with code 125 rail and code 172 wheels looked daring. P48 and Scale7 demand separate club tracks, but I can still turn up at the club with my latest Jee...Geep and a large box of ready-to-roll reefers and remind them of my knuckles and everything runs past my tasteful cabin ca... oh, this is getting a bit far-fetched. That's what 50 years of the best kept secret in Nth Am model railroading does to you!
Jason

 

[Overseer]

To add to Jason's list, options 1 through 3 are all gauged for 5'-0" track. Only option 4 is gauged for 4'-8½" track. The .115" wheel profile is the same for options 3 and 4, just the gauge is different.

The vast majority of 2-railers run the .145"/5'-0" gauge wheels (option 2). The p48 crowd obviously choose option 4. There is a very small group that uses option 3. I've actually considered it, since in my opinion the wheel profile and corresponding placement of sideframes are the bigger contributors to the improved aesthetic. But then I figured if I was going to lay my own track, which was likely, then why not just make it to the correct gauge.

Jason does raise a good point, which is what environment do you want to run your trains in? P48 equipped stock generally doesn't play well with 5'-0" gauge track, so you may need to evaluate and make sure you have the right friends.

My P48 stock doesn't play at all on 5' gauge track, actually it might but I don't have any. It certainly falls between the rails on my S7 (33mm) and 1:48 5'3" gauge track (33.33mm).

I think anyone getting into P48 needs to be a bit careful about what they buy. A RP25 code 115 wheel will not be a scale wheel profile as the NMRA RP25 standard specifies a flange which is approximately double scale width and double scale height relative to the total width. The wheels will pass through the P48 flangeways but at scale back to back the wheel set will actually be over gauge and there could be problems with running. I think the previous incarnation of NWSL used to make P48 profile wheels rather than selling RP25 profile code 115 wheels as P48. I have just compared some recent NWSL 33" code 115 wheels with some Protocraft wheels and it seems the height of the NWSL flange is close to the P48 ones but the flange width is about twice as much. Looks like the NWSL wheels are not actually to RP25, but there is the flange width issue.

 

[JasonD]

When P48 first came out, my collection of Ow5 for the garden made it easy. Luckily for me, I summarised it as 'different track and wheel standards for ultimate O-scale' as did many other Ow5ers. O-scalers over here developed Scale7 - totally different, much like OO/EM/P4. Later on, some jerk said "myP48 trees are better than your bottle brushes". Didn't he?? And so the moniker Ow5 was born....

Oh, and then the sensible P48er said "Well, the sideframes on Ow5 trucks are too far apart so we need scale length bolsters and while we're at it we don't need coupler and underframe compromises for Kadees with those wide-mouthed pockets for the swing they need for the sharp radius curves they like."

So, one more time, P48 and Ow5 track, wheel and wheelset standards are totally incompatible and unmixable. As the would-be ruthless, large computer company I used to work for proclaimed "Standards are great ... lets have more of them".
Jason

 

[richard carr]

Can anybody offer me some guidance on where the bell should go, I have looked at numerous photos and cannot see it on any of them ?

Richard

 

[Yorkshire Dave]

On SP locos the bell is generally under the sill - usually a frame mounted bell in either of these areas. As they are so well hidden and I couldn't see it in photos I didn't fit one to my GP9.

 

[mickoo]

Can anybody offer me some guidance on where the bell should go, I have looked at numerous photos and cannot see it on any of them ?

Richard

Depends on what railroad, locomotive and time period.

Daves locations are the common locations, others are on the hoods but another sneaky one is behind the pilot and engineers steps. I think the GP-9 started out here and may have moved to the other side Dave notes.

If you can't see it where Dave points to, or it's not on the hood anywhere then it'll almost certainly be tucked up behind the engineers steps behind the pilot.

I've got reasonable close up walkarounds of a CSX GP38-2 and GP40-2 and can't find a bell anywhere, not even the sneaky place behind the pilot so I've no idea where CSX has hidden it on those engines.

 

[richard carr]

Thanks Dave, that does it explain it.

Richard

 

[Big Train James]

I took a look at the EMD catalog pages. They seem to indicate that the bell was located behind the pilot steps on the early road switchers like the gp9.

Mick, on later EMD units, the bell is almost always located in front of the fuel tank on the conductor's (left) side of the loco. Anomalies would be in the nose on CNW units on low nose units, welded to the front of high hoods (NW, Southern), over the cab (CN), maybe others. I took a quick look at some CSX gp38-2's and gp40-2's, they show the typical frame mounted bell on the left side in front of the fuel tank.

 

[mickoo]

CSX 6033 Wildwood FL 2015



CSX 2652 Sanford FL 2015







Neither have the bell mounted on the under frame.

They have it mounted above the engine doors behind the dynamic brake on the conductors side, this is 6033 and I didn't take any upper shots of 2652 but a quick web search reveals the same set up.



I spent ages looking at under frames pictures and clear forgot to look up