1870-1947 Pre-Grouping & Grouping – Modelu
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These are very good.
The Heybridge Railway, 1889 to 1913
- Thread starter Richard Gawler
- Start date
www.modelu3d.co.uk
These are very good.
Richard Gawler
Western Thunderer
I need to be very careful specifying figures for the late 1890s . . . I need to find out what the GER uniforms for footplate staff looked like at the time.
There is no rush to do this, and this is fortunate because my books on the GER don't give me any clues.
There is no rush to do this, and this is fortunate because my books on the GER don't give me any clues.
Peter Insole
Western Thunderer
I don't know if it helps, but from my own observations, the term "uniform" in the modern sense seems not to have existed. More, it appears to be a case of "style" that was deemed acceptable. (?)
It should be noted that the Company, (GER or any other) "provision" of either tools or any workwear was completely undreamt of! - Indeed, any such luxury is a relatively "modern" practice! The most anyone could expect to be issued with was a badge of some sort - and the employee had to either "earn" it, or more likely be expected to pay out of his own pocket - even for that!
Only reasonably high-ranking staff could actually afford to be tailored - so a degree of variety was to be expected!
Drivers tended to wear a peaked cap - in a large variety of shapes - but all quite distinctly unlike the familiar "greasetop".
Firemen commonly wore a simple cloth cap - sometimes a "pill-box" hat - but most importantly, if an ordinary peaked cap, it had be of inferior quality, size and shape to that of his superior on the footplate.
One common, and consistent feature was that all wore a jacket - or coat (often collarless) over a short waistcoat - but always only ever buttoned just under the neck - leaving the "westie" and watchchain exposed!
Firemen almost always wore wooden "clogs" - with their very distinctly deep soles, and an upturned shape at the toes. Drivers on the other hand tended to wear decent leather jobs - as befitting their seniority!
It is quite notable how ill-fitting the loco crew attire frequently was - although having jacket sleeves or trouser legs somewhat too short for the wearer might have been deemed an advantage at times when working on the footplate. Drivers generally tended towards an oversize, "baggy" look though!
Pete.
PS., Incidentally, some railway companies permitted footplate crews to wear "Bowler hats" - yes! You read that right! The Metropolitan District Railway was one such example!
It should be noted that the Company, (GER or any other) "provision" of either tools or any workwear was completely undreamt of! - Indeed, any such luxury is a relatively "modern" practice! The most anyone could expect to be issued with was a badge of some sort - and the employee had to either "earn" it, or more likely be expected to pay out of his own pocket - even for that!
Only reasonably high-ranking staff could actually afford to be tailored - so a degree of variety was to be expected!
Drivers tended to wear a peaked cap - in a large variety of shapes - but all quite distinctly unlike the familiar "greasetop".
Firemen commonly wore a simple cloth cap - sometimes a "pill-box" hat - but most importantly, if an ordinary peaked cap, it had be of inferior quality, size and shape to that of his superior on the footplate.
One common, and consistent feature was that all wore a jacket - or coat (often collarless) over a short waistcoat - but always only ever buttoned just under the neck - leaving the "westie" and watchchain exposed!
Firemen almost always wore wooden "clogs" - with their very distinctly deep soles, and an upturned shape at the toes. Drivers on the other hand tended to wear decent leather jobs - as befitting their seniority!
It is quite notable how ill-fitting the loco crew attire frequently was - although having jacket sleeves or trouser legs somewhat too short for the wearer might have been deemed an advantage at times when working on the footplate. Drivers generally tended towards an oversize, "baggy" look though!
Pete.
PS., Incidentally, some railway companies permitted footplate crews to wear "Bowler hats" - yes! You read that right! The Metropolitan District Railway was one such example!
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Richard Gawler
Western Thunderer
This is not the first time I have spent an evening searching online and in my books for something which never existed, and I doubt it will be the last
I have four potential crew figures. These are from Connoisseur Models, two from Nellie the crane tank and two from the Y14. I am not very good at painting figures especially the faces but these need not show much on the footplate of the Y14.
Fundamentally, I now realise the crew don't need to be appear as a matched pair. I can have a go at two of these, hats especially.
I’ve been told in the past that when a loco is fully run in then it’s worn out and needs re-building…..
When I was a member of NEEGOG and we first built the test track there used to be quite a queue on running nights to give a loco a run, but the value of doing so is well worth it, even if you only personally have a plank type test track/layout.
Bob
When I was a member of NEEGOG and we first built the test track there used to be quite a queue on running nights to give a loco a run, but the value of doing so is well worth it, even if you only personally have a plank type test track/layout.
Bob
Richard Gawler
Western Thunderer
The NEEGOG running sessions are well-attended, usually 14 to 18 attendees, but I suppose only half bring something to run. I imagine the test track is quite old? It is very useful. The joints in the rails at the baseboard joints are often 2 mm apart, and two of the joints have a sideways offset as well. So it really is a "test track" in the way it will detect anything out of true in a rigid chassis. I did some runs by propelling all my wagons at the maximum speed of my Minerva Manning Wardle, and our chief scapegoat / chairman remarked at the time this was 'brave'. Everything survived.
The group is in its summer recess now, the next meeting will be 9th September. Details go up on the GOG web site.
The group is in its summer recess now, the next meeting will be 9th September. Details go up on the GOG web site.
I think we made the test track in the mid-90’s, just a circle because at that time we meet in the Colchester Model Engineering building off Straight Road in Colchester. It seemed like a huge step forward at the time. Always been a great group to belong to. I did pop in to a meeting a few years back at Bergholt - Martin was/is always encouraging me to do so - and I saw it’s now got long straights as well in the larger space available.
Bob
Bob
simond
Western Thunderer
if it's not running out, it's running in 
faces. I do not go along with whites of eyes and so on. I feel such characters always look unnatural. A little shadow maybe, but nothing more, your crews seem entirely believable IMO.
Have a look down the street and try to replicate what you can spot at two coach lengths away!
faces. I do not go along with whites of eyes and so on. I feel such characters always look unnatural. A little shadow maybe, but nothing more, your crews seem entirely believable IMO.
Have a look down the street and try to replicate what you can spot at two coach lengths away!
I know that the L&YR is a long way from East Anglia, but these views of loco crews from the 1880s may give you food for thought. I suspect there was not too much regional variation in industrial clothing across the country.
Herb Garden
Western Thunderer
Here is a case in point.... A GER ironclad with crew and a very fancy double breasted jacket
Richard Gawler
Western Thunderer
I enjoy photography as a hobby and I do try to make models which will look okay in photos. At the limit, I would love to make models which I can arrange to look like full size ones in photos. I am not there yet but some kind of scenic diorama ("Heybridge Basin" with its swans) will help me to see what I need to do better.
The smallest detail I want to replicate in 7mm scale is a rivet head, and mine are about 1/2 mm diameter and 1/4 mm thick. Eyeballs (the visible white parts) are smaller than this. George's post of GER 262 shows to me, a quick pencil line under the top of the eye socket is a good thing. I've done this better on some of my figures than others. This could be a green or blue pencil for females after makeup became popular but this is a bit early for my Heybridge Railway.
So really I could have two sets of crew for the Y14. One set to give the right overall impression during running, and one set for the photography hobby. In fact, this second set could move from one loco to another. I was thinking, my GER crew needed to be dressed differently to my Heybridge Railway crews, but now I don't think this is the case.
George: that photo of 262 is superb and it ought to be my go to reference for how all of my locos should look.
Tim: the hats with L&Y 702 and Goliath should keep me occupied for a while. Especially the driver of 702.
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I think that the hats are good examples of the wide variety of head wear available in the late 19th century, presumably chosen for their ability to keep the wearer dry rather than for fashion. The jacket on the GER 262 and on the driver on LYR 702 are, I think, pea jackets, which originated amongst sea farers (the name may come from the Dutch). Clearly the main aim of the clothing was to protect the wearer from the weather. I attach one more photo from the Railway Magazine of 1900 in an article on the LNWR. That the lordly Premier Line was happy to have a photo of one of their drivers who is dressed for comfort rather than style, suggests that such clothing was common.
Herb Garden
Western Thunderer
It is isn't it.... Makes me want to make one.... Oh drat another for the wishlist
Richard Gawler
Western Thunderer
It occurs to me, we aren't allowed to do wishlisting on WT but every carefully-chosen photograph of a highly modellable subject neatly side-steps this rule. And 262 is very modellable indeed. It looks a bit North American to me.
Herb Garden
Western Thunderer
It is very modellable and quite American looking.
This is a Adams 265 class ironclad.... In 1876 when they came out an absolute giant.
Adams went on to design another American style locomotive the 527 mogul class. The first of its kind. Also a giant and where we get the term mogul from
Also on the very modellable list....
Sorry I'm going off topic.... But you've got me on my mastermind subject....
This is a Adams 265 class ironclad.... In 1876 when they came out an absolute giant.
Adams went on to design another American style locomotive the 527 mogul class. The first of its kind. Also a giant and where we get the term mogul from
Also on the very modellable list....
Sorry I'm going off topic.... But you've got me on my mastermind subject....
GER 10 ton van (1910)
Richard Gawler
Western Thunderer
I want to return to the model making here while I build another wagon. I have at least three completely disparate sets of ideas for future projects – the headgear on the crew, the swans in the basin, and the private coach, but none of them have quite ‘gelled’ to make me want to start on them. And this isn’t counting the list of locos I want to build, and indeed the whole “Heybridge Basin” diorama. I can mull them over in my mind while I build the 10-ton GER van from Jim McGeown.
The contents of the kit. You get a second identical etch for the second side and end and so on, and I am sure I had all six coupling links too.
Rivet impressions formed using my automatic centre punch. The tip of this fits into the half-etched recesses perfectly, so they come out in straight lines and all the same depth. I find this hugely easier, neater and quicker than using my rivet press. I thought this was brilliant idea of mine until I did a quick search online and realised other people discovered this years ago. The working surface is the usual green cutting mat.
It is easy enough to form the first fold in the solebars. For the second fold, I take the metal about a third of the way round before the jaws get in the way, and then tease the solebar into shape between the jaws. I think the trick here is to weaken the fold lines before starting, I run a scriber along the lines several times. The masking tape protects the rivets from the jaws of the vice, this idea is from Jim’s instructions for the kit.
On the inside of the sides, it is worth reinforcing the folds with sections of solder not a continuous fillet. This stops the solder running out through the holes and onto the outside of the model. This is my second side.
I soldered up the corners from the inside. The capillary action draws the solder into the joint (fair enough) so the trick is to control things so almost nothing appears on the outside. Needless to say this is my fourth corner.
The contents of the kit. You get a second identical etch for the second side and end and so on, and I am sure I had all six coupling links too.
Rivet impressions formed using my automatic centre punch. The tip of this fits into the half-etched recesses perfectly, so they come out in straight lines and all the same depth. I find this hugely easier, neater and quicker than using my rivet press. I thought this was brilliant idea of mine until I did a quick search online and realised other people discovered this years ago. The working surface is the usual green cutting mat.
It is easy enough to form the first fold in the solebars. For the second fold, I take the metal about a third of the way round before the jaws get in the way, and then tease the solebar into shape between the jaws. I think the trick here is to weaken the fold lines before starting, I run a scriber along the lines several times. The masking tape protects the rivets from the jaws of the vice, this idea is from Jim’s instructions for the kit.
On the inside of the sides, it is worth reinforcing the folds with sections of solder not a continuous fillet. This stops the solder running out through the holes and onto the outside of the model. This is my second side.
I soldered up the corners from the inside. The capillary action draws the solder into the joint (fair enough) so the trick is to control things so almost nothing appears on the outside. Needless to say this is my fourth corner.
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Richard Gawler
Western Thunderer
There is some very thoughtful design work in here, the bottom blocks for the side stanchions fold down out of the sides. So they all end up in exactly the right place.
The solebars go on after the side and end stanchions. The spring stops go into half-etched rebates on the solebars and these rebates help a lot with the alignment.
I struggled with one of the ends because pressing out all the rivets made it slightly dish-shaped and I didn't realise this had happened until I came to add the two end stanchions. After some manipulation between fingers I ended up with the end slightly concave in the middle and a bulge top-right. Out of curiosity really I applied the automatic centre punch top-right (in the photo) and this settled the worst of the bulge.
The ventilators are covering the worst of the deformations and I am hoping some paint will disguise the rest. Maybe the prototype has had a knock. I'd like to think the camera makes it look worse than it is.
The other end is better
All of the ventilators needed a little fettling to arrange them to sit flush on the ends. I have still ended up with little gaps, maybe filler will be less instrusive than solder.
Richard Gawler
Western Thunderer
Nor will the rivets if I keep on trying to use solder to hide my mistakes
Richard Gawler
Western Thunderer
A quick post to the community to say, I am not "dead" and I haven't "got the hump" but I did lose the use of my Internet connection last week. The wonderful folk at Zen Internet answered the phone at 8pm, sent me a replacement router, and this has arrived and I have reconnected myself.
I know I saw "getting a secondhand router really cheap on eBay and reconfiguring it as a mesh repeater" as "a fine thing to try, see if it works"; but I did not see "DSL sync failure" coupled with "LAN access disabled" on the original router as two real, simultaneous and perfectly possible outcomes.
As has happened to me with other stuff, a little knowledge is a dangerous thing! Today I did a factory reset on the original router (hence the little screen grab above), loaded the configuration of the new router and made myself a cold spare. But . . . never, never again
