Prototype Tim Mills' Photos

[SimonT]

Brian,
just checked on 6114. 1957 starts with it allocated to Ebbw Junction. 24 July it goes into Caerphilly Works and 20 Sep sees it back at Ebbw Junction. At some point in Dec it goes to Seven Tunnel Junction. On 22 October 1958 it goes to Reading. It goes into Caerphilly Works on 11 Dec 1959. On 18 Jan 1960 it moves back to Llandore where it remains until 14 Oct when it goes to Caerphilly running shed. 25 November sees it back to Llandore. It moves to Whitland on 13 Jun 1961. On 27 Feb 1962 it moved to Seven Tunnel Junction followed by a move to Carmathen on 22 May. Finally into store at Wolverhampton 10 Nov.

Ebbw Junction suppled some of the locos that worked the Eastern Valleys and thus 6114 could have worked to Aberbeeg and Ebbw Vale and I thus have an excuse to have a 61! Best I finish the 56 and the 9F first

The best explanation I can come up with for a 61 at Whitland in 1959 is a running in turn from Caerphilly works, there just aren't any allocations. Choose from 6102, 6120, 6147, 6160.

 

[David B]

Hall Class 6954 Lotherton Hall at Paddington on 6th March 1963. It was at its final allocation in 1963, St Philips Marsh, (SLS) where it was withdrawn in May 1964. It went to Cohen's at Morriston where it was scrapped in November the same year. (BR Database).

Maybe a Grange? (68 numberplate and raised running board over the cylinders)

 

[Dog Star]

Modified Hall 6960 Raveningham Hall at Paddington on 6th March 1963. 6960 was the luckier of the two, at Reading at the time, then moving to Oxford in August 1963 before withdrawal and preservation in June 1964.

Brian,

6960 might have been withdrawn in June 1964, however the loco was sent to Woodham's yard. The loco was saved for preservation and left the yard in October 1972.

regards, Graham

 

[simond]

Maybe a Grange? (68 numberplate and raised running board over the cylinders)

I agree, Roundhill Grange apparently.

atb
Simon

 

[Martin Shaw]

Indeed Simon, and somewhat unusually at Padd in Mar 63 since it was an Oxley engine at the time. Sheds from new in 12/37 Oxley, 7/40 Banbury, 10/52 Oxley, 4/55 Oxford, 1/60 Laira, 10/60 Canton, 12/60 Penzance, 4/61 Truro, 10/61 Oxley, 6/65 Tyseley, 9/65 Wdn.

Roundhill Grange itself is an attractive Georgian house in Charlton Musgrove near Wincanton.
Martin

 

[oldravendale]

Before more pictures....

Thanks, Simon, for completing the 6114/6108 story.

Graham - Thanks for correcting the details about 6960. Fairly obviously I didn't check the details as I was convinced in my own mind that it went straight in to preservation. The entry is now updated.

Thanks too to David, Simon and Martin for picking up my deliberate error - just to make sure you were paying attention. (If you believe that you'll believe anything.) I'll now correct all the details both here and on the info attached to the photo. As ever I remain so grateful to those who check my work.

Brian

 

[oldravendale]

After some quite successful shots Tim seems to have had a problem with exposure towards the end of this film...

This loco was last seen way back in post #200. A3 60039, Sandwich, a 34A Kings Cross loco where it had lived since 1957 on the 5.5 pm Peterborough at Kings Cross on 6th March 1963. 60039 had the trough deflectors fitted at Doncaster between 12th April and 2nd June 1961 when it received a General overhaul. It was withdrawn eight days after this photo was taken. (SLS). It was disposed of at Doncaster Works by early April. (Rail UK).









Another rather under exposed shot of Castle 7023 at Paddington on 6th March 1963. Details in the previous post so not repeated here.



Brian

 

[PMP]

I've now returned from holiday and caught up with the happenings on WT while I've been away. The next series of photos are a break from the previous fare and were all taken at Holloway Road on 5th March 1977, by the look of it when there was some demolition/building work going on.

Thanks for your comment, Dave. I've heard one or two stories about poor performance by the Royal Scots in preservation which is a surprise considering, as you say, how well regarded they were in service. As a side note although it's great that Scots Guardsman was preserved it always rankled me in the early days to see it in a spurious LMS livery when it wasn't rebuilt until 1950. However, I acknowledge that if you are the owner you have the absolute right to paint it whatever colour you like.

And Yorkie Dave. I appreciate the confirmation abut the location. Thank you.

First is an unidentified Class 40 (or English Electric Type 4 if you prefer). (Edit) Probably 40059. Holloway Road on 5th March 1977.

View attachment 190149

Again Holloway Road on 5th March 1977 and a series of Class 31 (Brush Type 2) passing on a train which may or may not be associated with the ongoing works. The loco is 31219, the erstwhile D5644 which was a Finsbury Park engine, not moving to Tinsley until July 1981 and withdrawn in February 2000. Reference is also made to a severe fire caused by electrical overload or arcs although the info is very sketchy. Was thus the reason for withdrawal? Disposal took place at T J Thomson & Son Ltd at Stockton in June 2003. (All BR Database).

View attachment 190150

View attachment 190151

View attachment 190152

Finally an unidentified Class 47 (Brush Type 4), light engine again at Holloway Road on 5th March 1977.

View attachment 190153

Brian

A bit late to the party on this one so apologies, I'm pretty certain the work in progress here is connected with the electrification program as has been mentioned, and evidenced by the lack of power wires in many of the images. I have a feeling the specific project underway here is the building of the flyover for the suburban platforms to transfer the inbound traffic to the west side of the station. Around this time the most easterly inbound lines were removed if I recall correctly to allow the building of the 'ramp' for the flyover.

 

[mickoo]

Sort of but here's a little more detail.

All of Tims photos are taken at South Holloway, the fly over was a bit further south beyond the Caledonian Road bridge. However, site access would would have been up through here so that trucks could gain access to Caledonian Road. If you look at the photos of 40 059, specifically the one heading into London from the old loading bay, you can see the construction site for the new flyover through the bridge arches.

The original flyover existed for nearly or maybe even over (can't place my hand on the book with the build dates in) a hundred years and was originally used to transfer up goods arrivals over to the goods line bores and thus entry to Goods & Mineral, top shed and a ramp/link up to the NLL.

I've coveted the construction images for a good few years (from the web in 2006 according to the date stamp), there's a couple more but only show different angles of the same scene and for the life of me cannot recall where I got them, but they're so good they must be covered by some copyright somewhere, I just cannot recall where.

Construction of the plate steel flyover bridge during widening of the approaches. The northern span was built first, in the foreground it looks like they've already built the retaining wall that adjoined what would become the up slow line.



Then the southern span followed.



What is interesting is that the bridges were built on site from what looks like a kit of bits and on solid ground, once complete the ground was excavated from below to make way for the new up lines.

In the back ground is the original flyover bridge that covered what would become the down lines (at this time is was just up and down lines to Kings X) from the central bore. I'm sure the central bore came first, then the western with the goods expansion and thus original single flyover bridge and finally the eastern. I'm sure the tracks in the foreground of the following image are to carry away the spoil from the new eastern bore and supply masonry to line it with.

Also evident is that the up goods line remained in use during these works and way over yonder we can see the down goods line.



In the image below we have, on the far left is the up goods fly over, then the up slow, up main, down main (on which the express is running), down slow and finally at far right, down goods.



What did happen when the lines were (prior to) electrified was to remove the old steel bridges due to limited clearance for 25Kv OHL, these were replaced with a hideous slab sided concrete box affair. To achieve that (as noted by above) the lines were rationalised and the left hand bore (Eastern - ex up bore) and lines became redundant, the central bore (ex down lines) then became the main lines and the old western (ex goods) became the local or suburban lines.

The track/bore rationalisation on affected Copenhagen tunnels, all three bores at Gasworks remained in use and still do.

The superb 2 mm Copenhagen Fields models this area perfectly and gives one a good idea of the running lines, bores and crossovers from the original widening to the electrification and subsequent rationalisation.

 

[oldravendale]

Thank you for your comment, David, and thanks too to Mick for the full treatise! I'm now considering ow I can incorporate all that info in to the photo files....

Today "Now for something completely different".

Johnson 1F 0-6-0T 41739 in the yard at Staveley Iron Works on 27th February 1963. According to the SLS this had been resident at Staveley (Barrow Hill) since at least 1954 and was not withdrawn until as late as June 1963. Rail UK advises that it was disposed of at Derby Works at some time in 1963. BR Database says it was immediately on withdrawal, so June 1963. WHTS confirms it went to Derby but is also unable to confirm a scrapping date.





Another Midland 1F No 41835 in the shed at Staveley Iron Works on 27th February 1963. It was also allocated to Staveley (Barrow Hill) when the photo was taken but moved to Langwith Junction in October 1965, not being withdrawn until Christmas Day 1966! (SLS). It was scrapped at Hesslewoods, Attercliffe by the end of May 1967. (Rail UK).



Finally two Bagnall 0-4-0STs in store at Staveley Iron Works on 27th February 1963, rather unimaginatively named Bagnall No 11 and Bagnall No 12. I have no further info about either of these so some help in filling in the details will be appreciated.



Brian

 

[PMP]

What did happen when the lines were (prior to) electrified was to remove the old steel bridges due to limited clearance for 25Kv OHL, these were replaced with a hideous slab sided concrete box affair. To achieve that (as noted by above) the lines were rationalised and the left hand bore (Eastern - ex up bore) and lines became redundant, the central bore (ex down lines) then became the main lines and the old western (ex goods) became the local or suburban lines.

Apologies for the confusion I meant the ‘new concrete’ flyover, I traveled through the area on the 313’s and 312’s daily.

Gasworks and Copenhagen east side closed around this time too, but Gasworks has recently been reopened.

Disused rail tunnel reopens at Kings Cross station

A tunnel at King's Cross station that was closed in the 1970s has been reopened, with the first trains passing through just before 5am this morning.

www.ianvisits.co.uk

Every time I go into KX these days I’m fascinated by the change that has occurred since the early 80’s, it’s extraordinary.

 

[mickoo]

Apologies for the confusion I meant the ‘new concrete’ flyover, I traveled through the area on the 313’s and 312’s daily.

Gasworks and Copenhagen east side closed around this time too, but Gasworks has recently been reopened.

Disused rail tunnel reopens at Kings Cross station

A tunnel at King's Cross station that was closed in the 1970s has been reopened, with the first trains passing through just before 5am this morning.

www.ianvisits.co.uk

Every time I go into KX these days I’m fascinated by the change that has occurred since the early 80’s, it’s extraordinary.

I wasn't aware the eastern tunnel at Gasworks was closed, though I do have a niggle thought I noticed that once when visiting Kngs X a few years back, but it never lodged in the grey cells firmly enough

The whole section from Kings X to Holloway has always been a strong interest point for me, no idea why, like Camden and Bishopsgate they're just areas that fascinate me.

 

[oldravendale]

Yet more about KX, PMP and Mickoo. Many thanks.

Back to more normal fare today.

Castle 7005 Sir Edward Elgar on the Cathedrals Express at Paddington on 1st March 1963. This has been in three previous postings, #1188, #1218 and #1304. It had been a Worcester engine since new in 1946, went to Southall in August 1964 but lasted only a month there. It went to Cohens Morriston where it was scrapped during January 1965. (BR Database).









An unidentified (and under exposed) 94XX 0-6-0PT leaving Paddington with empty stock on 1st March 1963.



15XX 0-6-0PT 1503 entering Paddington with empty stock on 1st March 1963. It was an Old Oak Common engine from new in 1949 and was withdrawn at the end of November 1963. (SLS). It was scrapped at T W Ward, Briton Ferry, by the end of May 1964. (Rail UK).



Modified Hall 7914 Lleweni Hall entering Paddington on 1st March 1963. Seen previously in posts #1226, #1311 and #2271, it belonged to Reading at the time, ending up at Oxford by way of St Philips Marsh and Bristol Barrow Road. It was withdrawn from Oxford in January 1966. (SLS). It was disposed of at Cashmore's, Newport, in May 1966. (BR Database).



Edit: I missed one of the photos. So, as seen in post #1096 this is 94XX 0-6-0PT 9420 entering Paddington with empty stock on 1st March 1963. 9420 was a long time Old Oak engine, going there in 1951 until withdrawal in March 1964. (SLS). It was scrapped in August the same year at Swindon. (Rail UK).



Brian

 

[daifly]

Hi Brian

Under considerable magnification on a big screen, the under-exposed pannier looks very much like 9479. This loco featured in post #1218.

Dave

 

[oldravendale]

Thank you for suggesting an identity there, Dave. Duly added to the notes.

Two photos here of Jubilee 45568 Western Australia on a London train at Sheffield Midland on 27th February 1963. Confirmed information around this date is a bit hard to come by although it was recorded as a transfer to Newton Heath in April 1964 ex-Holbeck.
It was withdrawn from immediately on arrival. It ended up at Drapers in Hull where it was scrapped in January 1965. (A combination of data from BR Database, SLS and Rail UK). Locoshed books record the allocations as Leeds Holbeck in April/May 1957, November/December 1957, April/May 1958 and November/December 1959.





Crab 2-6-0 42827 on freight at Chesterfield on 27th February 1963. It was a Saltley engine at the time of the photo, moving to Birkenhead Mollington Street in July 1964 before withdrawal in August 1965. (SLS). It wen to Birds at Long Marston for scrapping which was completed by the end of January 1966. (Rail UK).


Robinson O4 2-8-0 63827 at Staveley on 27th February 1963. This had been allocated to Staveley since 1950 and was withdrawn from there in January 1964. (SLS). It went to T W Ward, Beighton, in June 1964 but the actual scrapping date is not recorded. (BR Database).



Brian

 

[Lyndhurstman]

Smashing. I love the details in the two shots of Western Australia; the 'cupboard' of vac pipes, the fire devil... the almost familial association of the men in the grouping... the grey weariness of the machine and its surroundings. So much to like.

Thank you

Cheers

Jan

 

[James Fibbens]

The pipes in the cupboard look more like steam heat pipes (note the 'claws' which are just visible on one or two, and the oval flange which is the end which attaches to the buffer beam isolation cock - neither feature is present on vacuum pipes). Perhaps they were there 'in reserve' lest a coach or loco appeared without a steam heat bag and needed to be fitted with one in a hurry for a steam-heated service?

The battered door leaning up against that cupboard is perhaps an end cover (or half of one) for a corridor connection?

 

[Martin Shaw]

Dave's identification of 9479 reveals it to be in its last months, new to Llanelli 7/52, Southall 23/3/57, Old Oak 29/11/58, Wdn 7/63. 11 years of use makes me wonder why we allow our politicians to squander so much money, he idly contemplated.
Martin

 

[oldravendale]

Thank you for your observations, James and Jan. When Tim got it right he really got it right, didn't he? There are not an enormous number of photos of the people in relation to the railway but the few he took are outstanding. In this case the cupboard is, I suspect, a Fogman's shelter and I agree that the pipes are probably steam heat pipes. The door is almost certainly a corridor end cover. I believe these were hinged so it's quite possibly complete as it stands.

Thanks for yours about 9479 too, Martin. I know we don't do politics but the wholesale scrapping of modern steam locos, including probably the most efficient and powerful class we've ever produced in the 9Fs takes some understanding. After all Germany managed to run down their steam fleet without resorting to carnage and that was largely by concentrating it in certain areas. However, let's not get drawn in to a discussion about what might have been.

Regrettably BR Database has succumbed to the attack reported a few posts ago but the info here is cobbled together from a variety of sources. Any corrections will be appreciated. Furthermore Rail UK is showing as "Account not secure" so I won't be going there either.

Class 04/3 2-8-0 63774 in the shed yard at Staveley on 27th February 1963. In this photo it's clearly carrying a 41H Staveley shed plate, although according to Shed Bash UK this engine was seen withdrawn at Staveley on 14th July 1963 carrying a 41A Sheffield Darnall shed plate. WHTS confirms it was stored at Staveley between 10th March 1963 when it was withdrawn and September 1963. It entered Doncaster Works on 8th October 1963 and was observed on 20th October so was presumably scrapped there shortly afterwards.






Another O4 2-8-0, 63795 inside the shed at Staveley on 27th February 1963. This was seen at its home shed carrying a Staveley shed plate on 10th December 1962 but wasn't present on 14th July 1963. (Shed bash UK). WHTS record it as withdrawn in October 1963 and stored at Retford between October 1963 and January 1964 when it went to Doncaster Works where it was recorded in January 1nd February, so presumably scrapped there.

Edit: This is an O1, not an O4



A shed scene at Staveley on 27th February 1963. I'll guess that's the fireman or perhaps a shed labourer on the footplate of Class 01 2-8-0 63571 with his oil can - he's certainly not there to clean the loco! The only loco which can be positively identified is the O1. That was on Staveley's allocation and seen there on 10th December 1962 and 14th July 1963. (Shed bash UK). It was withdrawn from Staveley in December 1964 and stored there between then and March 1965 when it went to Draper's at Hull where it was cut up by the end of the month. (WHTS).



Brian

 

[Heather Kay]

Lovely kink in 63774's running plate in front of the cylinders, presumably from a rough shunt.