Prototype Tim Mills' Photos

[Roger Pound]

Brian,

As a lad on holiday in Hunstanton with a box Brownie about 1950/51 - not quite sure about the year, I photographed this D15 which I believe is 62502, entering Hunstanton station. Not brilliant, but I suppose in the run of things a touch historical now. I do recall that this loco had a modified tender compared to the D16's that were very common at the time. I wondered if it was possibly from the post-war experimental oil-burning programme. Needless to say, I could be wrong on that one, but it's just a thought.



Roger.

 

[Lyndhurstman]

Regarding the 13T 6 plank wagon in https://www.westernthunder.co.uk/at...ford-mpd-8-mar-59-copyright-final-jpg.231975/ I see it is marked as "no good for clay" (?) . Intriguing #tomeatleast

Cheers

Jan

 

[Martin Shaw]

Brian

I should have checked BR Database more carefully as it shows the loco was rebuilt to D16/3 although the initial listing is as a D15. I'm clearly not paying proper attention again.

Actually you probably are. The loco started life as a D15/1 (although it didn't become known as this until 1927) with a saturated boiler in 3/10, it was rebuilt with a superheated boiler in 4/22, rebuilt as a D15/2 in 3/32, rebuilt again as a D16/3 in 12/39. The photo obviously shows a D16/3 but it had been a D15.

Roger
A remarkably historic photo if I may say and your spot on about the years, the smokebox number plate definitely says 62502 and it was only renumbered thus 27/8/49 and withdrawn on 4/2/52 and I presume you weren't on holiday in Hunstanton in the winter. Its towing a so called watercart tender which is easily indentifiable by the rounded top to the tank sides. There were eight of them that came from an LNER oil burning experiment in 1927/8 and nothing to do with BR's try out 20 years later. At the time of your pic it was a King's Lynn engine. It started out as a D15/1 (caveat applies) at Cambridge in 5/00 and rebuilt as a D15/2 in 1932. It never became a D16 of any class part.

Martin

 

[Arun Sharma]

WHTS has 69713 cut up at Stratford Works in Oct 1961

 

[Barry37]

Regarding the 13T 6 plank wagon in https://www.westernthunder.co.uk/at...ford-mpd-8-mar-59-copyright-final-jpg.231975/ I see it is marked as "no good for clay" (?) . Intriguing #tomeatleast

Cheers

Jan

Seems to be an LNER 6 plank/9' wheelbase wagon. As this is only a chalked "observation", perhaps it refers to a defect on this particular wagon – part of a floor plank missing, perhaps.
Unloading solid/wet clay from a wagon like this, must have been hard work. Would be interesting to know where clay would have been transported from/to, in a wagon like this.
Wagons for china clay (which had been dried) in Cornwall had end doors for unloading, and longitudinal floor planks to aid the load sliding out.

 

[oldravendale]

The J20 is, indeed, in steam, @40057.

Roger @Roger Pound - Excellent picture. One of those where the value is in the unexpected information and has elicited interesting comments.

Interesting comments about that wagon, Jan @Lyndhurstman and thanks for following it up, Barry @Barry37.

Thanks for the additional info about the D15/16, Martin @Martin Shaw and to Arun for the additional and final stuff about 69713.

This one is certainly still working. It’s J19 64664 at Stratford MPD with Britannia 70002 Geoffery Chaucer behind on 8th March 1959. The J19 had just been transferred to Colchester and moved to Stratford in November 1959 where it was withdrawn in September 1962 (BR Database). It was seen in Stratford Works on 28th October 1962. (WHTS).

The Britannia was at Norwich Thorpe from February 1959 and March from July 1961. It left the GER in December 1963 when it moved to Carlisle Kingmoor and was withdrawn in January 1967. (SLS). It was scrapped in mid-May 1967 at Campbells, Airdrie. (BR Database).



J69/1 68600 at Stratford MPD on 8th March 1959. It was at Stratford from February 1959 and was withdrawn on 16th September 1962. (SLS). It was eventually scrapped at Stratford (Yeadons) although we have no date.



Class J20/1 64677 at Stratford Shed Yard on 8th March 1959. This was allocated to Stratford in December 1947 and withdrawn in September 1961. (SLS). It was subsequently cut up at Stratford in October 1961. (Yeadons).



At Stratford MPD on 8th March 1959 was Class J69/2 0-6-0T 68513. The loco was allocated to Stratford in at least 1948 (BR Database) and was withdrawn in October 1960. (SLS). It was scrapped at Stratford. (Yeadons) in June 1961. (BR Database).



J15 65361 at Stratford MPD on 8th March 1959. It was allocated to Stratford from February 1957 and withdrawn in September 1962. (SLS). Scrapping followed in March 1963 (BR Database) and WHTS advises this was around 21st of the month – Yeadons confirms the deed was done at Stratford.



Brian

 

[Roger Pound]

Further to my photograph #4,561. Whilst my memories from over seventy years back are now somewhat faded and my old stock books long gone (except the 1954 one!) I do recall that there was at least one other D15 that I recorded during two summer holidays at Hunstanton at that time. According to what little information I now have to hand, in that period 62501/2/4-7 were all at Kings Lynn prior to withdrawal, believed to be on dates varying from 6/51 to 4/52. Finally my thanks to Martin Shaw for the most useful information on the unusual tender behind 62502.

Roger.

 

[AJC]

Seems to be an LNER 6 plank/9' wheelbase wagon. As this is only a chalked "observation", perhaps it refers to a defect on this particular wagon – part of a floor plank missing, perhaps.
Unloading solid/wet clay from a wagon like this, must have been hard work. Would be interesting to know where clay would have been transported from/to, in a wagon like this.
Wagons for china clay (which had been dried) in Cornwall had end doors for unloading, and longitudinal floor planks to aid the load sliding out.

Depends on the clay - ball clay out of north Devon and Purbeck was largely unloaded by crane (at Fremington, notably), and China Clay was often loaded into Highs, notably the Clayliners, in later years, but contamination is the likely cause for the note.

Adam

 

[Martin Shaw]

As a matter of tying things together there were thirteen of D15 Class remaining in traffic at nationalisation that were withdrawn rather than rebuilt to D16.
62501 King's Lynn 6/51
62502 King's Lynn 2/52
62503 Bury St Edmunds 2/51
62504 King's Lynn 6/48
62505 King's Lynn 11/51
62506 King's Lynn 4/52
62507 King's Lynn 4/52
62508 Bury St Edmunds 10/50
62509 King's Lynn 9/52
62512 King's Lynn 8/50
62520 Melton Constable 8/51
62528 Melton Constable 6/51
62538 Norwich Thorpe 4/52

The withdrawal of 62509 from King's Lynn in Sept 52 rendered the D15 class extinct.
As can be seen King's Lynn had the majority but they all went quite swiftly and notably as well as still being D15s they were originally D14s and therefore the oldest of the GER 4-4-0s in traffic despite at least two rebuildings.

 

[Barry37]

Depends on the clay - ball clay out of north Devon and Purbeck was largely unloaded by crane (at Fremington, notably), and China Clay was often loaded into Highs, notably the Clayliners, in later years, but contamination is the likely cause for the note.

Adam

There's a nice (but a little dark) pre-1948 photo of Fremington Quay here . At the time it was taken (1934), it still seems to involve men shovelling Marland clay into buckets for the steam crane to pick up. As displayed on the page, it's quite small, but is actually much larger, which enables more of the detail to be seen.
I downloaded the photo and lightened the "Shadows". On the extreme left, a number of men are pushing a loaded wagon!

 

[oldravendale]

Thanks for the additional info connected to your D15 photo, Roger @Roger Pound, ad also for your expended info about the class, Martin @Martin Shaw.

Then Adam @AJC and Barry @Barry37 for the continuing discussion about the "clay wagon".

B17 61625 Raby Castle just about remains in revenue earning service when photographed at Stratford MPD on 8th March 1959. It had been an Ipswich loco since June 1953, moving to Cambridge in October 1959 but for only just over a month as it was withdrawn in December the same year. (SLS). Although BR Database advises it was scrapped in December 1959 WHTS propose that it was photographed at Doncaster on 6th December and observed again on 16th January 1960.



Another N7, this time N7/4 69603 at Stratford MPD on 8th March 1959. It had been on the Stratford allocation since at least 1948 (BR Database) and was withdrawn on 27th July 1959. (SLS). It was scrapped at Stratford in October the same year. (RO).



A loco which does not appear on the WHTS listings is D16/3 4-4-0 62536 here at Stratford MPD – or more likely in the Scrap Yard on 8th March 1959. The final location for this loco was Spital Bridge in November 1952 and it was withdrawn as long ago as 25th July 1955. (SLS). However there are SLS reports of it being seen in Stratford Scrap Yard on 29th June and 31st December 1958 and again on 2nd April 1959 which begs the question of what it was doing for nearly four years. BR Database reports an eventual scrap date of April 1959.



A super shed scene and typical of the shed it represents. Princess Coronation 46236 City of Bradford in Camden Loco on 8th March 1959 next to sister engine 46238 City of Carlisle. City of Bradford has been in posts #1493, #2595, #3623 and #4235 previously. It had been a Carlisle Upperby engine since June 1958, moving on loan to Edge Hill in February 1961 and back to Upperby in March and finally Carlisle Kingmoor in November 1962 from where it was withdrawn in March 1964. (SLS and BR Database). It went to Crewe Works for disposal where it was scrapped by the end of April 1964. (Rail UK).

Seen previously in posts #881 and #927 and #4240 is 46238. This had been a Camden engine for a while in the 50s but was moved to Carlisle Upperby in June 1952. (SLS). It was withdrawn from there in September 1964 and was despatched at Arnott Young in Troon in the December. (BR Database).



Brian

 

[Martin Shaw]

A couple of additions,
61625 Raby Castle Ipswich 16/2/31, Norwich 21/10/41, Ipswich 30/6/46, Norwich 22/1/47, Ipswich 3/10/47, Norwich 5/11/47, Cambridge 20/6/48, Ipswich 7/6/53, Cambridge 25/10/59 (Stored), Wdn 3/12/59.

62536 Stratford 9/03, Norwich 5/7/26, Cambridge 3/3/28, Stratford 17/12/34, Cambridge 31/1/35, Kings Lynn 19/8/45, Cambridge 26/8/45, King's Lynn 11/1/48, Cambridge 18/1/48, Trafford Park 7/4/50, Cambridge 8/6/52, Spital Bridge 12/10/52, Wdn 25/7/55.

In September 1955 62536 was made stationery boiler 3339 to supply steam at Stratford Works. It was finally condemned in December 1958 and was cut up in April 1959 at Stratford Works.
Martin

 

[oldravendale]

Excellent stuff again, Martin @Martin Shaw, especially the info about 62536. I must admit to wondering whether the delay in scrapping was down to stationary boiler purposes but hadn't heard of it until the B1s were put to such use.

A late survivor of the class of Midland Compounds was 40907 here at Kentish Town Shed Yard on 8th March 1959 sans coupling and con rods. It's doubtful that it was already withdrawn as it was allocated to Sheffield Millhouses in June 1953 and officially withdrawn in September 1960. I suppose it's just about possible that it was failed at Kentish Town and towed to Sheffield or straight to Doncaster. However it was seen in store at Millhouses in June 1960. (all SLS). Unusually it went to Doncaster for scrapping where it was seen in the Scrap Yard on 9th October 1960. (RO). BR Database reports a scrapping date of some time within that month.



A3 60058 Blair Athol at Wood Green on an up Newcastle train on 27th March 1959. (What a lovely place Blair Athol is, too. Looks like a fairy tale castle… Will doubtless visit this year on one of my long trips to Scotland). Anyway, the loco was allocated to Darlington at he time of the photo and had been there since November 1958. After Darlington it went to Gateshead in June 1959, back to Darlington in December 1961 and made a return to Gateshead in July 1962 before ending up at Heaton in October the same year where it was withdrawn on 19th June 1963. (SLS). This was one of the class which never received smoke deflectors although it received a double chimney in August 1958. (BR Database). It went into Doncaster Works for cutting up on 10th July 1963 which was completed later the same month. (BR Database).



Two here of the same 9F on the same day at the same location. The first is an unusual view of 9F 92181 at Wood Green on 27th March 1959. This went to New England when new in November 1957, in to store there in January 1965 and was withdrawn in February the same year. (SLS). It was scrapped at Cohen’s, Kettering, during July 1965. (BR Database).



Later the same day the loco returned with a train of minerals.



An unidentified V2 2-6-2 at Wood Green on 27th March 1959 with observers in attendance in the standard attire of the time, the man in a business suit and the boys in school blazers and caps with the youngest of the trio wearing shorts. I remember the school cap and shorts but no longer have the knees for them...



Brian

 

[Osgood]

That's a great close-up shot of 92181 Brian!

 

[Yorkshire Dave]

Two here of the same 9F on the same day at the same location. The first is an unusual view of 9F 92181 at Wood Green on 27th March 1959. This went to New England when new in November 1957, in to store there in January 1965 and was withdrawn in February the same year. (SLS). It was scrapped at Cohen’s, Kettering, during July 1965. (BR Database).

The bridge on the right is the Hertford loop which leaves/joins the main line at the north end of Wood Green station platforms.

 

[76043]

That's a great close-up shot of 92181 Brian!

And a lot of coping stones missing too, which is a useful "prototype for everything" for when you can't be bothered to finish a model.
Tony

 

[timbowales]

And a lot of coping stones missing too, which is a useful "prototype for everything" for when you can't be bothered to finish a model.
Tony

Might be easier to fit all the copers instead of trying to model the knackered mortar

 

[Osgood]

I was so smitten by the 9F I didn't even notice the coping bricks

 

[oldravendale]

I agree about the 9F photo, Tony @Osgood. A modellers picture for sure and, I suspect, another "grabbed" and unplanned.

Thanks for the geography info, Dave @Yorkshire Dave. That's very helpful in defining the precise location of that and other similar photos on the day. Also regarding the coping stones Tony @76043 which I'd failed to notice. But I suspect Tim @timbowales may be right and it'd be better to assume they were actually all there.

A very satisfying picture of B1 61329 at Witham described as North of the Bridge on 14th March 1959. It was a Stratford engine from May 1953, went to March in October and then Doncaster about three weeks later in 1962 and withdrawal in April 1966. (SLS). It was sold in May 1966 to Cohen’s at Kettering and BR Database advise that it was scrapped in the same month.



Brian

 

[oldravendale]

Something odd going on here. I've been posting photos for years but this time was only allowed the single image above, so I'll try again with the other three which should have been included. So... I tried but once again can load only one.

Britannia 70039 Sir Christopher Wren again at Witham “North of Bridge” on an up Norwich train. However, that headboard appears to be reversed so this may be empty stock for a named train. However 70039 is carrying express head lamps so cannot be an empty stock working. Seen previously in posts #2017 and #4126 the loco lived at Norwich Thorpe from February 1959, then Immingham from the end of 1960 and in December 1963 went to Carlisle Upperby ending up at Carlisle Kingmoor in March 1964 where it was withdrawn in September 1967. (SLS). It then went to J Mc Williams at Shettleston where it was scrapped by the end of January 1968. (BR Database).



Brian