Computer Aided Wagonry
- Thread starter Pugsley
- Start date
mickoo
Western Thunderer
Steph, yes in the overall big picture the cost is pretty small, but high enough to not warrent it as your main source of components, I.E. you'd be wanting to use the Shapeways parts as masters for resin casting for instance.
The graining does concern me, in the larger scales anything not perfectly smooth will look poor, however FUD does seem to minimize this to a large extent and if you are just printing the main body devoid of lumps and bumps you can soon sand to finish at your end, in other words, use shapeways as part of the process for the component and not all of the process. Having said that, parts like axle boxes and compressors etc can be made almost complete, there fidelity would probably mask and graining you get from the process.
I suppose the only thing to do is to get one printed and see what it's like.
Guv, you might find a railbus complete a little more expensive than that if going for FUD, adding the interior or parts of the interior will push the cost up, its not the size of the model, its the volume that kills the cost, essentially you need to make the walls as thin as possible, but structurally sound, to keep costs down. They say FUD will support walls as thin as 2mm, now I'd be rather hesitant forking out that amount of cost for walls 2mm think and running the risk of collapse or damage, I'm looking at 3mm possible 4mm in high stress areas.
Anyway, not to dilute Pugsley's thread further, I'll take this vein forward in another thread in due course
, his excellent CAD work draws my own CAD interest bubble ever closer in its cyclic orbit LOL, Some BR stuff is all ready to be turned into CAD models, A4 body, Stanier boiler/smokebox/firebox combos, a Peak cab and if I can find accurate dimensions for roofs and tumbleholme curvatures I might attempt a Western cab, though knowing folks here thats a pit of biting vipers I'd be getting into LOL.
Kindest
The graining does concern me, in the larger scales anything not perfectly smooth will look poor, however FUD does seem to minimize this to a large extent and if you are just printing the main body devoid of lumps and bumps you can soon sand to finish at your end, in other words, use shapeways as part of the process for the component and not all of the process. Having said that, parts like axle boxes and compressors etc can be made almost complete, there fidelity would probably mask and graining you get from the process.
I suppose the only thing to do is to get one printed and see what it's like.
Guv, you might find a railbus complete a little more expensive than that if going for FUD, adding the interior or parts of the interior will push the cost up, its not the size of the model, its the volume that kills the cost, essentially you need to make the walls as thin as possible, but structurally sound, to keep costs down. They say FUD will support walls as thin as 2mm, now I'd be rather hesitant forking out that amount of cost for walls 2mm think and running the risk of collapse or damage, I'm looking at 3mm possible 4mm in high stress areas.
Anyway, not to dilute Pugsley's thread further, I'll take this vein forward in another thread in due course
, his excellent CAD work draws my own CAD interest bubble ever closer in its cyclic orbit LOL, Some BR stuff is all ready to be turned into CAD models, A4 body, Stanier boiler/smokebox/firebox combos, a Peak cab and if I can find accurate dimensions for roofs and tumbleholme curvatures I might attempt a Western cab, though knowing folks here thats a pit of biting vipers I'd be getting into LOL.Kindest
28ten
Guv'nor
I have most of the dimensions for a western cab, and I know a man who could help with accessSteph, yes in the overall big picture the cost is pretty small, but high enough to not warrent it as your main source of components, I.E. you'd be wanting to use the Shapeways parts as masters for resin casting for instance.
The graining does concern me, in the larger scales anything not perfectly smooth will look poor, however FUD does seem to minimize this to a large extent and if you are just printing the main body devoid of lumps and bumps you can soon sand to finish at your end, in other words, use shapeways as part of the process for the component and not all of the process. Having said that, parts like axle boxes and compressors etc can be made almost complete, there fidelity would probably mask and graining you get from the process.
I suppose the only thing to do is to get one printed and see what it's like.
Guv, you might find a railbus complete a little more expensive than that if going for FUD, adding the interior or parts of the interior will push the cost up, its not the size of the model, its the volume that kills the cost, essentially you need to make the walls as thin as possible, but structurally sound, to keep costs down. They say FUD will support walls as thin as 2mm, now I'd be rather hesitant forking out that amount of cost for walls 2mm think and running the risk of collapse or damage, I'm looking at 3mm possible 4mm in high stress areas.
Anyway, not to dilute Pugsley's thread further, I'll take this vein forward in another thread in due course
Kindest
I meant interior as in recess for glazing and inner sides I would laser most of the rest. any slight graining could be sanded smooth on a railbus as there is no riveted detail to worry about, of course I sill need 36 hour days to get it done...
mickoo
Western Thunderer
I'd certainly like a look at the cab info please, a decent set of drawings and dims really helps with CAD work. Agree with smooth exteriors add detail later and yes, recesses for windows is mandatory.I have most of the dimensions for a western cab, and I know a man who could help with access
I meant interior as in recess for glazing and inner sides I would laser most of the rest. any slight graining could be sanded smooth on a railbus as there is no riveted detail to worry about, of course I sill need 36 hour days to get it done...
Kindest
Pugsley
Western Thunderer
Thanks David, that is praise indeed!
All of the main body, including the roof, sides,solebars, etc is going to be formed from etched parts, only the detail parts will be castings, where appropriate. Everything apart from the buffers and axleboxes will be cast in whitemetal, those parts will be cast in lost wax brass.
Pugsley
Western Thunderer
Again, I'm going to take that as a petty big compliment
Thanks Mick, that's nice to know.
mickoo
Western Thunderer
Credit where credit is due!Again, I'm going to take that as a petty big compliment
Please post up how you get on with white metal and brass casting, I'd be most interested in knowing how you get on, I've kept away from that and planned to use resin castings, though the basis of my locos is not brass etch, but brass etch for detailed overlays like vents and window frames etc.
Kindest
Pugsley
Western Thunderer
Work on this project continues (I hesitate to use the word apace!). The parts for Shapeways have all been sprued up and checked in Netfabb, here they all are:
I've also started to get all of the patterns ready for combining into the etch sheets, I think it will be two sheets for practicality reasons, as one sheet with all the bits on will be too big. Doing this has uncovered a weakness with Alibre - it's not very useful for amending drawings after creating them, so I'll be using Solid Edge 2D to draw up the sheet. I would have used CorelDraw, but it doesn't seem to cope with the DXF conversion very well.
Here's most of the parts before tinkering:
I'm hoping to have all of the etch artwork ready to go by the end of the weekend - fingers crossed!
I've also started to get all of the patterns ready for combining into the etch sheets, I think it will be two sheets for practicality reasons, as one sheet with all the bits on will be too big. Doing this has uncovered a weakness with Alibre - it's not very useful for amending drawings after creating them, so I'll be using Solid Edge 2D to draw up the sheet. I would have used CorelDraw, but it doesn't seem to cope with the DXF conversion very well.
Here's most of the parts before tinkering:
I'm hoping to have all of the etch artwork ready to go by the end of the weekend - fingers crossed!
lancer1027
Western Thunderer
Hi Pugs,
That looks FANTASTIC.
Very very impressive.
Rob
That looks FANTASTIC.
Very very impressive.Rob
28ten
Guv'nor
Do you once you have sent them to a drawing? in theory all the adjustment takes place in the 3d environment and the drawings update automatically. Personally I export everything to a dxf and do all the fine adjustments in Draftsight or autocad, the problem with this is that the 3d then becomes a legacy file that does not reflect the amendments, which doesnt really matter for a single user but it is generally considered bad practice.
Pugsley
Western Thunderer
I didn't phrase that post very well, what I meant was that it is very difficult to make the etch artwork in Alibre, purely because it is designed to make the drawings based on changes to the 3d model. I'm not altering the part drawing produced from Alibre, only colouring it in and adding tabs, which is much easier to do in Solid Edge.
I'm trying to avoid making alterations outside of the 3d environment, for precisely the reasons you mention.
I'm trying to avoid making alterations outside of the 3d environment, for precisely the reasons you mention.
Pugsley
Western Thunderer
I f**kin' love technology, me!
These arrived today:
Bizarrely, these are the re-order of the parts that were rejected from the small order for pushing the boundaries of the technology (some of my sections were a little too small). There's no news on the main order as yet, although I thought it was the main order when it turned up, given the size of the box it was in.
Still, I'm pretty darn pleased - by inconveniencing a few electrons, I've got actual little parts on my workbench! the linkages and brake changeover levers have come out nicely, with minimal stepping in places where it's easily dealt with. I'm not quite sure about the buffer parts, the finish feels OK on the outside, but looks a bit ropey in places, but I'm hoping that it is on the inside. If it hasn't worked, I think I'm into the realm of creative turning of brass tubes, which I don't really want to do.
I think this is better than the feeling you get when your etched sheets arrive, but that comes a close second
These arrived today:
Bizarrely, these are the re-order of the parts that were rejected from the small order for pushing the boundaries of the technology (some of my sections were a little too small). There's no news on the main order as yet, although I thought it was the main order when it turned up, given the size of the box it was in.
Still, I'm pretty darn pleased - by inconveniencing a few electrons, I've got actual little parts on my workbench! the linkages and brake changeover levers have come out nicely, with minimal stepping in places where it's easily dealt with. I'm not quite sure about the buffer parts, the finish feels OK on the outside, but looks a bit ropey in places, but I'm hoping that it is on the inside. If it hasn't worked, I think I'm into the realm of creative turning of brass tubes, which I don't really want to do.
I think this is better than the feeling you get when your etched sheets arrive, but that comes a close second
28ten
Guv'nor
Even better if it is a first effort
I notice you sprued it as well, is that with the intention of casting?The technology is getting tantalisingly close to being able to print anything, and with etching it will be possible to make anything.
Pugsley
Western Thunderer
Thanks
It wasn't really done with casting in mind, I guess it may prove to be a Good Thing in terms of that, although I don't know if the sprues are big enough to be effective casting feeds. It was done in order to minimise the set up costs with a large number of small parts - I've ordered a whole twin sets-worth as casting masters. Most parts are planned to be cast in whitemetal, except for the buffers and axleboxes, which I hope to get lost-wax cast in brass, for durability.
I quite agree with the technology becoming close to being able to print anything - I'm off to a 3D printing/additive manufacturing show at the NEC later in the month, so I'm hoping to get a good idea of what is truly possible now and in the near future.
It's possible to make anything now, I think, it's just going to get better! I've said it before, but I think we're on the cusp of the next industrial revolution.
It wasn't really done with casting in mind, I guess it may prove to be a Good Thing in terms of that, although I don't know if the sprues are big enough to be effective casting feeds. It was done in order to minimise the set up costs with a large number of small parts - I've ordered a whole twin sets-worth as casting masters. Most parts are planned to be cast in whitemetal, except for the buffers and axleboxes, which I hope to get lost-wax cast in brass, for durability.
I quite agree with the technology becoming close to being able to print anything - I'm off to a 3D printing/additive manufacturing show at the NEC later in the month, so I'm hoping to get a good idea of what is truly possible now and in the near future.
It's possible to make anything now, I think, it's just going to get better! I've said it before, but I think we're on the cusp of the next industrial revolution.
BrushType4
Western Thunderer
I can see why you are so chuffed. Hurry up main order and get to Pugsley!