Computer Aided Wagonry
- Thread starter Pugsley
- Start date
Dan Randall
Western Thunderer
They're way out of my preferred era, but I'd buy some too!
Keep up the good work Pugs.
Regards
Dan
Keep up the good work Pugs.
Regards
Dan
Pugsley
Western Thunderer
I didn't think the Soo operated them?On my layout there'd be a couple of them, tripped in behind a Dapol 08.....
Thanks for the kind words everyone - I'll let you know if they do become available.
Pugsley
Western Thunderer
It's been a while since the latest update, due to a lack of time, and redoing parts after schoolboy errors. In the virtual world, it currently looks like this:
I used the specification sheet I have for these vans to determine the amount of gap to leave between the two doors, in the middle of the wagon, which was 300mm. I then spent ages working out and drawing up the 4 layers that comprise each door, before looking at a photo and realising that something was wrong.
The support may be 300mm wide behind the doors, but the visible part is only as wide as the narrow ribs on the doors, approximately 80mm. It seems to have taken longer to alter everything than it did to create it in the first place! The moral of this story is to study your photographs carefully, not rely on published dimensions that aren't always clear.
Heljan, take note
I used the specification sheet I have for these vans to determine the amount of gap to leave between the two doors, in the middle of the wagon, which was 300mm. I then spent ages working out and drawing up the 4 layers that comprise each door, before looking at a photo and realising that something was wrong.
The support may be 300mm wide behind the doors, but the visible part is only as wide as the narrow ribs on the doors, approximately 80mm. It seems to have taken longer to alter everything than it did to create it in the first place! The moral of this story is to study your photographs carefully, not rely on published dimensions that aren't always clear.
Heljan, take note
Pugsley
Western Thunderer
Good evening all - please can you tell me what's wrong with my roof. There's something I don't like about it, but can't figure it out.
The real:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/hmillington/2038719398/in/set-72157603210839981
http://paulbartlett.zenfolio.com/twinvan
The model:
Any help and observations would be much appreciated.
The real:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/hmillington/2038719398/in/set-72157603210839981
http://paulbartlett.zenfolio.com/twinvan
The model:
Any help and observations would be much appreciated.
Dan Randall
Western Thunderer
Dog Star
Western Thunderer
Possibly... although the operating gear on the end of the body looks like there might be a gearbox at the very top with a longitudinal rod under the central portion of the roof. I meant to say in my previous post that the central roof portion seems to have different widths / cross-section on different wagons (see reference to Paul Bartlett photos).
regards, Graham
Dog Star
Western Thunderer
May I suggest using a bit of photo-software-trickery?
Take an image of a prototype where the end is visible... import into photoshop and select the distortion option. Grab a corner of the prototype and move around so as to get the end in a psuedo end-on view... then see if the image is good enough to "trace" the section of the roof relative to the corss-section of the end.
Clearly there is a need, for purposes of accuracy and comparison, to select a prototype image which has the roof style which is required for the model.
Irrespective of what has been written before, thank you Martin for treading this path and showing all of us just what can be achieved with current computer software and associated technology.
regards, Graham
Take an image of a prototype where the end is visible... import into photoshop and select the distortion option. Grab a corner of the prototype and move around so as to get the end in a psuedo end-on view... then see if the image is good enough to "trace" the section of the roof relative to the corss-section of the end.
Clearly there is a need, for purposes of accuracy and comparison, to select a prototype image which has the roof style which is required for the model.
Irrespective of what has been written before, thank you Martin for treading this path and showing all of us just what can be achieved with current computer software and associated technology.
regards, Graham
Pugsley
Western Thunderer
Some of the ones in Paul's gallery are the later type, which are both higher and wider, and also have a different roof arrangement. Both of the later diagrams seem pretty similar, but the first 100 were different.
As Jordan mentions, various gubbins related to the operation of the doors lives up there. The operating gear on the ends is the unlocking mechanism - AFAIK the doors are moved by hand (or mostly by fork, by those too lazy to get off their forklifts, probably).
Jordan - I've manged to orient the model closer to one of Paul's photos - I think the overhang of the ends and doors is about right comparing the two. Have a look and see what you think.
I'm also forming the opinion that the roof sheet is in the right place, but what's wrong is the angle of the door tops - it should be flatter than it is. This would increase the gap between the roof sheet and the doors, and improve the appearance.
Again, any observations welcomed:
http://paulbartlett.zenfolio.com/twinvan/h2a7ebaa2#h2a7ebaa2
Looking at all of these pictures has also made me think that I need to revisit the buffers, there' not quite the same type as on these wagons. Still, better to notice something now than after everything's been cast!
Neil
Western Thunderer
I wonder if the roof angle problem might be better addressed in proper 3D rather than virtual 3D and that it's time to make a simple paper or card box to the dimensions of the computer model? I've found it quite difficult comparing when clicking from image to image and though printing them out would help it's better I find to have a mock up that can be picked up, rotated, tilted and viewed from all the angles one would want to. I suspect that only using the PC to design might be like only using whitemetal to produce a loco kit.
Pugsley
Western Thunderer
The recess will be half etched, for some reason Alibre won't display half cuts on the model. You're right about the fillet though, I need to amend that, and I think you're right about the door angle - that's the bit that's not quite correct.
I think that's a good idea - I'll give that a go over the next few days, not tonight though, I fancy a spot of weathering instead.
Pugsley
Western Thunderer
Like an itch you just have to scratch, I've ended up tinkering with this project, rather than the weathering that I was planning on doing.
The errors are cropping up thick and fast now, with a discrepancy in the overall height discovered, which is almost certainly what was wrong with the roof. Now I've slipped a millimetre in there, and raised the roof by the same amount, it's looking more like it. I've double checked the ends against the dimensions I have, and they're right, so the upper section of the doors are angled correctly.
I've also noticed that the end supports project too far, so these will need to be trimmed a bit, and the ribs on the end will also need to be changed, as they appear to be flush with the outer panel, rather than under it.
Ho hum. At least I've spotted them before it's too late.
The errors are cropping up thick and fast now, with a discrepancy in the overall height discovered, which is almost certainly what was wrong with the roof. Now I've slipped a millimetre in there, and raised the roof by the same amount, it's looking more like it. I've double checked the ends against the dimensions I have, and they're right, so the upper section of the doors are angled correctly.
I've also noticed that the end supports project too far, so these will need to be trimmed a bit, and the ribs on the end will also need to be changed, as they appear to be flush with the outer panel, rather than under it.
Ho hum. At least I've spotted them before it's too late.
Pugsley
Western Thunderer
It's been a while since I updated this thread, but a lot has changed with the design since the last post. I've redone both ends, as I wasn't happy with the bracing looked, reduced the depth of the end stanchions, changed the buffer heads and made a few changes to the roof. The result so far looks like this:
I've also drawn up a representation of the brake gear, which will be a mix of castings and etchings, around some 0.7 and 0.9mm wire. Whilst I can't claim it's 100% accurate, it's a pretty fair representation based around photographs, measurement of the various components from different wagons and some educated guesswork! A helpful diagram was also posted 'in the other place' that helped me greatly with what was connected to what, and how
More fiddly bits to do now, and the roof needs trimming back from the ends a bit further. I also need to study my photos a bit more in this area. In some it doesn't look like the roof protrudes over the end, but in others it does.
I'm going to modify the brake shoes, so the carriers will be etched and the shoes slot into it, much like the prototype - the current ones designed to be cast in one piece will be a bit chunky, I think. This, with a few other small door related parts, is almost it - the design phase is nearly over. However, the next process of turning the sheet components into a fret for etching is going to be quite time consuming, I think.
I've also drawn up a representation of the brake gear, which will be a mix of castings and etchings, around some 0.7 and 0.9mm wire. Whilst I can't claim it's 100% accurate, it's a pretty fair representation based around photographs, measurement of the various components from different wagons and some educated guesswork! A helpful diagram was also posted 'in the other place' that helped me greatly with what was connected to what, and howMore fiddly bits to do now, and the roof needs trimming back from the ends a bit further. I also need to study my photos a bit more in this area. In some it doesn't look like the roof protrudes over the end, but in others it does.
I'm going to modify the brake shoes, so the carriers will be etched and the shoes slot into it, much like the prototype - the current ones designed to be cast in one piece will be a bit chunky, I think. This, with a few other small door related parts, is almost it - the design phase is nearly over. However, the next process of turning the sheet components into a fret for etching is going to be quite time consuming, I think.
Dan Randall
Western Thunderer
Superb work Pugs!
Regards
Dan
Regards
Dan