Finescale - of a sort?!
- Thread starter Peter Insole
- Start date
Peter Insole
Western Thunderer
Thank you John, but I fear just as "impossible" as ever too!
Thanks to you as well Ovenor, I have worried lately that I may at times be a bit too earnest, or maybe repeat myself and become boring?
Pete.
Thanks to you as well Ovenor, I have worried lately that I may at times be a bit too earnest, or maybe repeat myself and become boring?
Pete.
Not at all sir! Like the BBC you educate, entertain and inform.
Richard
timbowales
Western Thunderer
Peter, I, for one, enjoy reading your mini epistles. I find them uplifting, long may they continue
Osgood
Western Thunderer
Boring? Boring?
Soldering, filing, sanding, drilling, painting, turning, threading, clamping, gluing, heating, riveting, annealing and bending maybe - but never boring!
Peter Insole
Western Thunderer
I'm sorry to have not replied earlier, as I have been floating about a bit. I still don't quite know what to say either, other than thank you all so much for your encouragement guys!
One coat of drying varnish looks pretty much the same as the next, and in between bouts of "barely coping" I have only been applying them once daily - so nothing much exciting to show I'm afraid!
Although it has absolutely nothing whatsoever to do with this thread, the aurora display last night was such a fabulous mood lifter and shifter that I just cannot resist sharing it here though:
These views were taken earlier in the evening, and are courtesy of Mr O. The performance lasted until about 1.30 in the morning, by which time we were frozen to the bone and had cricks in our necks, but were nonetheless utterly delighted by a stunning grand finale; when it seemed for a couple of minutes as if the whole sky turned a brilliant and shimmering green, then pink, before fading completely away to nothing!
While I am perfectly aware that digital cameras do enhance the effect, I can absolutely assure everyone that the intensity of the colours reproduced here are indeed very close to what we all actually saw and acknowledged at the time!
Pete.
One coat of drying varnish looks pretty much the same as the next, and in between bouts of "barely coping" I have only been applying them once daily - so nothing much exciting to show I'm afraid!
Although it has absolutely nothing whatsoever to do with this thread, the aurora display last night was such a fabulous mood lifter and shifter that I just cannot resist sharing it here though:
These views were taken earlier in the evening, and are courtesy of Mr O. The performance lasted until about 1.30 in the morning, by which time we were frozen to the bone and had cricks in our necks, but were nonetheless utterly delighted by a stunning grand finale; when it seemed for a couple of minutes as if the whole sky turned a brilliant and shimmering green, then pink, before fading completely away to nothing!
While I am perfectly aware that digital cameras do enhance the effect, I can absolutely assure everyone that the intensity of the colours reproduced here are indeed very close to what we all actually saw and acknowledged at the time!
Pete.
simond
Western Thunderer
Frustratingly I missed it, despite having a warning on my phone that it reached 200nT (threshold for “visible throughout uk”) at about 5pm. Apparently it was over 1500nT at 1 am, I was tucked up in bed!
I guess I’m paying the price for living on a south facing scarp, with a town and its sky glow to the north of us. Still it’s nice here when the sun shines
I guess I’m paying the price for living on a south facing scarp, with a town and its sky glow to the north of us. Still it’s nice here when the sun shines
Peter Insole
Western Thunderer
Thank you Chris, I will try to keep going, and yes it is creeping ever closer towards completion, but sometimes it doesn't quite feel that way!
Last week was a bit slow going for me, so I only managed to get one layer of varnish on the cladding per day, despite the instructions on the tin saying "leave one hour between coats"! After the third, I decided to wait for another day before giving it a good rubbing down. I had intended to apply two more coats to finish, but covering such a relatively large, awkward area with so many nooks and crannies to work round, and using such a quick drying medium was a nightmare, so I gave up after the fourth! The end result is still a little scratchy and lumpy looking, but fairly well matches the much earlier, and now slightly worn saddle tank and dome!
Now it has all been put back together, at least there is no sign of the woodgrain underneath!
I have still got some touching up to do here and there with satin black on the backhead and fountain, including other spots where I didn't quite stay between the lines with the varnish. I chose not to use any kind of masking as I was applying thick coats by brush, and was rather afraid of creating some unsightly "steps".
In the meantime, I find myself somewhat caught on the horns of a couple of dilemmas - both entirely of my own making I hasten to add...
My own plumbing for the steam brake is pretty much spot on according to various copies of the drawings, but is clearly rather fulsome by comparison with both (NRM and NGRM) surviving prototypes, as well as photographic evidence. A shame really, as I have more than sufficient "reclaimed" pipe of the former diameter, but worse still, the only available next size down turns out to be noticeably too slender!
Taking into consideration a degree of vulnerability on the model, I think it might be the wise to just stick with what I have got... but I am still thinking about it?!
More of an issue though is my continued insistence on keeping the boiler, completely containing all of the electrics, readily separable from the underframes, and the mechanical drive parts. The overall design of the original, with just four angle brackets mounted atop the running plates lends itself to the principal, and by a bit of cunning, previously described subterfuge, various fittings and bits of pipework have been "attached" to the boiler structure, thus allowing a clean split. The only part so far that requires care, and has to be undone and taken down prior to a lift is the reversing rod on the left hand side of the engine!
I would like to keep it that way, but as you can see; there are two dangly little pipes (one still requiring it's brass fitting) that will be terribly prone to accidental damage during any future overhaul and reassembly operation. Not sure yet how best to make some kind of "invisible" solution?!
Pete.
Last week was a bit slow going for me, so I only managed to get one layer of varnish on the cladding per day, despite the instructions on the tin saying "leave one hour between coats"! After the third, I decided to wait for another day before giving it a good rubbing down. I had intended to apply two more coats to finish, but covering such a relatively large, awkward area with so many nooks and crannies to work round, and using such a quick drying medium was a nightmare, so I gave up after the fourth! The end result is still a little scratchy and lumpy looking, but fairly well matches the much earlier, and now slightly worn saddle tank and dome!
Now it has all been put back together, at least there is no sign of the woodgrain underneath!
I have still got some touching up to do here and there with satin black on the backhead and fountain, including other spots where I didn't quite stay between the lines with the varnish. I chose not to use any kind of masking as I was applying thick coats by brush, and was rather afraid of creating some unsightly "steps".
In the meantime, I find myself somewhat caught on the horns of a couple of dilemmas - both entirely of my own making I hasten to add...
My own plumbing for the steam brake is pretty much spot on according to various copies of the drawings, but is clearly rather fulsome by comparison with both (NRM and NGRM) surviving prototypes, as well as photographic evidence. A shame really, as I have more than sufficient "reclaimed" pipe of the former diameter, but worse still, the only available next size down turns out to be noticeably too slender!
Taking into consideration a degree of vulnerability on the model, I think it might be the wise to just stick with what I have got... but I am still thinking about it?!
More of an issue though is my continued insistence on keeping the boiler, completely containing all of the electrics, readily separable from the underframes, and the mechanical drive parts. The overall design of the original, with just four angle brackets mounted atop the running plates lends itself to the principal, and by a bit of cunning, previously described subterfuge, various fittings and bits of pipework have been "attached" to the boiler structure, thus allowing a clean split. The only part so far that requires care, and has to be undone and taken down prior to a lift is the reversing rod on the left hand side of the engine!
I would like to keep it that way, but as you can see; there are two dangly little pipes (one still requiring it's brass fitting) that will be terribly prone to accidental damage during any future overhaul and reassembly operation. Not sure yet how best to make some kind of "invisible" solution?!
Pete.
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Mike W
Western Thunderer
Putting those photos together is asking for trouble and I can't be the only one who thought "Wow, the lining on that boiler band is outstanding" - then the penny dropped - that's the real one and the other shots were of the model. Superb and, as others have said, so inspirational.
Mike
Mike
Peter Insole
Western Thunderer
Thanks Mike. I am so glad the boiler band lining (even though beautifully executed) appears to have been a complete flight of fancy by the Horwich painters in 1964 - and therefore I don't feel the need to attempt replicating it!
Having said that, and after being at pains to ensure my own bands were as close as possible to scale thickness, I am rather disappointed to note that they have become almost invisibly blended in with the rest of the cladding under the uniformly black paint!
Sigh!
Pete.
Having said that, and after being at pains to ensure my own bands were as close as possible to scale thickness, I am rather disappointed to note that they have become almost invisibly blended in with the rest of the cladding under the uniformly black paint!
Sigh!
Pete.
Peter Insole
Western Thunderer
Mrs I got a bit cross with me this morning, as she usually knows where everything is in our crowded little home. All I had asked her for was a button battery for my Vernier... and it quickly became obvious that it was me that had previously raided the pack and not put it back in the right place! By the time one was found, I was told in no uncertain terms that it was too late and I had missed breakfast - and I'd have to do my own lunch!
Ho, hum! Bad, bad boy again!
The really sad thing is that when the numbers come up in the LCD screen I have little idea of what they actually mean anyway! I just like the idea of the thing working properly!!
After much faffing about with said tool, a steel rule, plus pen and paper, I eventually managed to work out that my pipes are 1/8" and 3/16" diameter! What I really need for the steam brake is 5/32"! Fortunately, I have also discovered that size is readily available... and with a fair choice of suppliers and reasonable prices... so that is one problem more or less solved then!
Looking back at my reference shots taken of "Dot" at Tywyn, I note that at some point in time, the brake exhaust pipe had been re-routed:
Instead of dropping straight down through a hole in the running plate, (just in front of the flange) the pipe had been turned to blow outwards and overboard! (I would imagine such a modification provided a perfect device for any driver with a slightly questionable sense of humour?!)
It will be noted that a washer under the outer flange bolt nut has been substituted by a small, bent clip to restrain the realigned pipe.
While I do still want to retain the appearance of the original, "Horwich" arrangement, I really think that something along roughly similar lines is likely to be the only sensible answer?!
Pete.
Ho, hum! Bad, bad boy again!
The really sad thing is that when the numbers come up in the LCD screen I have little idea of what they actually mean anyway! I just like the idea of the thing working properly!!
After much faffing about with said tool, a steel rule, plus pen and paper, I eventually managed to work out that my pipes are 1/8" and 3/16" diameter! What I really need for the steam brake is 5/32"! Fortunately, I have also discovered that size is readily available... and with a fair choice of suppliers and reasonable prices... so that is one problem more or less solved then!
Looking back at my reference shots taken of "Dot" at Tywyn, I note that at some point in time, the brake exhaust pipe had been re-routed:
Instead of dropping straight down through a hole in the running plate, (just in front of the flange) the pipe had been turned to blow outwards and overboard! (I would imagine such a modification provided a perfect device for any driver with a slightly questionable sense of humour?!)
It will be noted that a washer under the outer flange bolt nut has been substituted by a small, bent clip to restrain the realigned pipe.
While I do still want to retain the appearance of the original, "Horwich" arrangement, I really think that something along roughly similar lines is likely to be the only sensible answer?!
Pete.
Peter Insole
Western Thunderer
This may, or may not work, but I think I know where I'm going with the problem of the dodgy dangly pipe ends now?!
While still considering my options I decided to carry on working on the vicinity, and got started by finally getting round to making up another brass angle bracket, in much the same style as previously used to fit the injector on the opposite side of the boiler backhead (see below as a reminder):
This time, the bracket base is formed into a rounded, light bulb shape, with three stud holes for the right hand side, saddle tank balance pipe flange:
The pity is that I had used 20mm x 20mm aluminium angle for the boiler flanges - only because they were available at the time - and pretty damn close to scale. They function perfectly well, but would be very difficult to attach anything additional onto, plus changing the flanges to brass or steel section would also mean having to re-align most of the bolt and stud holes to allow sufficient washer and nut clearances!
While fiddling about with fitting the new brass bracket it dawned on me that if I could find some ally angle wider than 20mm I could shape it to include an extended tab for the base of the brake pipe too!
By very great and good fortune, a quick rummage amongst the all the junk produced a short and clean offcut of 25mm x 25mm!
Perfik!!
A bit of chopping and filing later...
The tab has a hole for a short pin (of the brake pipe internal diameter) that should locate and hold the flimsy pipe in constant horizontal alignment whenever the boiler is lifted!
Once painted black, and matching with the rest of the surrounding structures, I doubt the protruding part of the lug will be particularly noticeable in the end?!
Pete.
While still considering my options I decided to carry on working on the vicinity, and got started by finally getting round to making up another brass angle bracket, in much the same style as previously used to fit the injector on the opposite side of the boiler backhead (see below as a reminder):
This time, the bracket base is formed into a rounded, light bulb shape, with three stud holes for the right hand side, saddle tank balance pipe flange:
The pity is that I had used 20mm x 20mm aluminium angle for the boiler flanges - only because they were available at the time - and pretty damn close to scale. They function perfectly well, but would be very difficult to attach anything additional onto, plus changing the flanges to brass or steel section would also mean having to re-align most of the bolt and stud holes to allow sufficient washer and nut clearances!
While fiddling about with fitting the new brass bracket it dawned on me that if I could find some ally angle wider than 20mm I could shape it to include an extended tab for the base of the brake pipe too!
By very great and good fortune, a quick rummage amongst the all the junk produced a short and clean offcut of 25mm x 25mm!
Perfik!!
A bit of chopping and filing later...
The tab has a hole for a short pin (of the brake pipe internal diameter) that should locate and hold the flimsy pipe in constant horizontal alignment whenever the boiler is lifted!
Once painted black, and matching with the rest of the surrounding structures, I doubt the protruding part of the lug will be particularly noticeable in the end?!
Pete.
Peter Insole
Western Thunderer
A parcel of pipes has just arrived, and it looks like I am going to be having a bit of fun with the contents!
I knew when ordering that both would be coiled for postage... but I certainly didn't expect the 10mm tube to be quite so tightly wound:
It is noticeably and naughtily elliptical in section before I even make a start trying to straighten it out!
According to published advice, it should already be sufficiently annealed to carefully unroll on a firm, flat surface, but it will be an equally interesting exercise having a go at clamping and stretching by what seems to be the accepted method?!
Gulp! Get it wrong, and this stuff is not cheap, but then again, neither is the old fashioned, completely out of date comparison with a packet of fags these days!
Pete.
I knew when ordering that both would be coiled for postage... but I certainly didn't expect the 10mm tube to be quite so tightly wound:
It is noticeably and naughtily elliptical in section before I even make a start trying to straighten it out!
According to published advice, it should already be sufficiently annealed to carefully unroll on a firm, flat surface, but it will be an equally interesting exercise having a go at clamping and stretching by what seems to be the accepted method?!
Gulp! Get it wrong, and this stuff is not cheap, but then again, neither is the old fashioned, completely out of date comparison with a packet of fags these days!
Pete.
Peter Insole
Western Thunderer
I have managed to straighten the pipes, in a fashion anyway!
While not being at all concerned by the skinny 5/32" inch, which was almost too easy, the 10mm stuff took some courage and a fair bit of grunt, but to my great relief that seems to have naturally returned to something like it's original round section in the process. I'm not going to push my luck and try the stretching trick, which I gather might thin the walls, (?) as I want to form various new bends anyway. There seems little point in making life even more difficult than it already is!
The balance pipes are quite lengthy affairs, and will have to perfectly align with their flange joints at either end, so with the left and right hand sides being awkwardly asymmetric, I think it would also be a rather good idea to draw up a pair of plans on paper first!
I am so much looking forward to finally getting to fit such an obviously distinctive feature of these little engines.
Pete.
While not being at all concerned by the skinny 5/32" inch, which was almost too easy, the 10mm stuff took some courage and a fair bit of grunt, but to my great relief that seems to have naturally returned to something like it's original round section in the process. I'm not going to push my luck and try the stretching trick, which I gather might thin the walls, (?) as I want to form various new bends anyway. There seems little point in making life even more difficult than it already is!
The balance pipes are quite lengthy affairs, and will have to perfectly align with their flange joints at either end, so with the left and right hand sides being awkwardly asymmetric, I think it would also be a rather good idea to draw up a pair of plans on paper first!
I am so much looking forward to finally getting to fit such an obviously distinctive feature of these little engines.
Pete.
simond
Western Thunderer
Hi Pete, it must. You have a fixed volume of metal in the pipe (or rod or wire). If it gets longer, it’s gotta get thinner!
Peter Insole
Western Thunderer
Ahem, of course it does!!!
Pete.
Pete.
Osgood
Western Thunderer
Ah, yes, but -
Does the wall thickness reduce in the same proportion as the reduction in overall tube diameter?
One could imagine a scenario where - in one extreme - the wall thickness remains constant, with the additional material required for increased length coming from a reduction in overall diameter.
Presumably for each method of drawing (and material drawn) there is a specific relationship between longitudinal and lateral stretch of the material - i.e. how much the wall thickness reduces and how much the overall diameter reduces?
Does the wall thickness reduce in the same proportion as the reduction in overall tube diameter?
One could imagine a scenario where - in one extreme - the wall thickness remains constant, with the additional material required for increased length coming from a reduction in overall diameter.
Presumably for each method of drawing (and material drawn) there is a specific relationship between longitudinal and lateral stretch of the material - i.e. how much the wall thickness reduces and how much the overall diameter reduces?