Finney 7 LNER A4

[Herr Flick]

Hi Peter
Good to meet up at Keighley.
I am following this thread with interest as I have one of these kits.
What loco are you doing and at what period?
Regards
David

 

[P A D]

Hi David,
It was good to meet you to.
I'm building it as 60030 Golden Fleece as running in the second half of the 1950s.
I believe the Keighley MRC are having an open day on 30/12. If I'm going I'll bring the A4 along and if you can make if as well you can have a look in the flesh. I'll drop you a PM if I'm going.

Back to the build. Using a pair of spring bow dividers set to the spacing of the existing holes, I marked the position of the three new holes and drilled them out. The three superfluous holes were then filled and rubbed down. Here's the result. Thanks again to Bob Lumley for giving me the heads up.


I have also made an addition to the spring housing on the buffer beam, by adding a piece of waste fret to represent the packing at the rear of the spring.


Not a big difference but nearer to prototype. Looking at this reminds me that k need to make the fixing brackets for the bogie splashers


Before moving on to the valve gear, I want to get the connecting rod and cross head up and running. In preparation for that, I've converted the front and middle crank pins to 10 BA bolts. The rear one have been left with 12 BAs as they will have cranks for the lubricator abd speedo.


And with the coupling and connecting rods in place. I have also fettled the etched on "corks" on the bosses to make them look a little more realistic.




Cheers,
Peter

 

[Herr Flick]

Peter
Thanks for your reply. Keighley Open Day diaried. Will keep in touch.
If you are doing 60030 in the 1950's after double chimney fitted - ex wks 15-05-58
you need to revisit the bogie - and specifically those dust shields.
Per the RCTS 'Green Book' and Yeadon - on the A4's these were replaced
from 1941 with a continuous metal cover. Later still a metal plate was attached
which had a cut out to clear the AWS gear.
Engine looking the part!
Regards
David

 

[P A D]

Hi David,
Thanks for the reminder on the dust shields. Don't know why I put the small separate ones on as I should have known from my Acme build of 600030 that they were not correct. In fact it needs a single shield with sloping bottom edges either side. In The Book of the A4s on page 217, there is an photo of 60030 from 06/1958 showing this. This is part of the Acme instruction for the bogie build and you can see the plate which is the last of 4 options. This also mentions that after 1939, bogie side check plates were added (part 36), so I'll be adding these as well as the correct dust shield and AWS from scratch later on.


Here's the bogie from the Acme model.

The spring castings are from Hobbyhorse, not 100% correct but far superior to the crap generic ones that were supplied.


Here's a front end comparison of the two models. Note the additional rivets on the lower cod's mouth door that were on some A4s. The chimney on the Acme one is a bit too squat and is a little wide at the back, but the breather holes are further forward as on the BR type, but the back end needs modifying as it runs all the way down to the cladding.



You can still find the Acme kit from time to time and if you are an experienced builder and can't afford the Finney, DJH or Hatton's RTR version, then it would be worth a punt if the price was good. It takes a lot more work of course, but it can be made into a nice model. Also in it's favour is that the tender can be built as both the A3 corridor type and the bow ended A4 corridor type that ran with the class. To make the non corridor tender would need the tank to be scratch built onto the tender frames.

T'other side.

Cheers,
Peter

 

[P A D]

P.S.
I mentioned fitting a speedo earlier, but just checked, and having no speedo is correct in 1958 for 60030, which didn't receive one until 1961.

 

[Arun]

Did you paint Golden Fleece Peter? Very nicely toned down lining.

 

[P A D]

Did you paint Golden Fleece Peter? Very nicely toned down lining.

Hi Arun,
Yes it's all my own work. It could be better of course, but I'm still very pleased with it.

Just a brief spell at the bench today. The return cranks were drilled and tapped 10BA. Here they are screwed onto the crank pin. They will be soldered to the outer reversed Slaters bush and the excess bolt will be cut and filed flush. I will then take the wheels off and adjust the position of the return crank by turning the bolt from the rear. I've also added a couple of 8BA brass washers between the coupling and connecting roconnecting rods to space them. The washers were soldered to some waste etch, drilled through and then opened to fit into the Slaters bushes with a broach. They were then removed from the waste etch and cleaned up. I'll solder them together later so that there is only one "thick" washer on each side. I've still to fit the castle nuts from Laurie Griffin to the coupling rod joint at some point as well.



Cheers ,
Peter

 

[Yorkshire Dave]

Having seen the head on comparison are you not tempted to replace the chimney on the Acme model?

 

[P A D]

Hi Dave,
No. To attempt that would ruin the front end as the chimney and top plate are a single white metal casting. Having been like that for 10 years or more I think I can live with it.
Cheers,
Peter

 

[P A D]

Here are a couple of shots of the Acme A4 before painting. It was originally going to be SNG, but living in Leeds I decided to go with one that had links to Yorkshire and would have been seen in Leeds Central, hence the switch to Golden Fleece. As far as I remember, the chimney and flat plate are one casting (at least it gives a smooth transition from chimney to smokebox), the edges next to the doors and the lower bulbous side pices and middle make another five castings. The fit of the castings was very poor and took a lot of fettling and swear words to get it something like acceptable. In the process a lot of rivet detail on the castings was lost and I made overlays from shim brass sheet to replace them. In this image, the 4 rivets either side of the upper door and the ones on the lower door were not yet added. Doing it now I would drill and add small brass rivets that are readily available. In my opinion, the incorrect chimney is not noticeable when the model is not next to the Finney 7 one. In this view, the "triangular" plate fitted above the AWS can be seen to good effect. Mentioning the chimney, it could be something the F7 boys could consider upgrading, i.e. providing a BR double chimney casting at some point.


Here is a view that gives an idea of the work involved in building this prototype from etchings. Numerous parts and hours of work to assemble them are save by the superb resin casting in the Finney Kit. Having said that, I believe if Martin Finney or Mick Davies at F7 designed the etchings, they would be a lot easier to assemble. Still at the time of purchase it was considerably cheaper than the Finney or DJH kits and if you have the skill and are prepared to put in the extra effort it can make a passable A4. Now, I prefer the easier options from F7.






These days, I am a bit better at removing excess solder, but it's not too bad.

Cheers,
Peter

 

[P A D]

Back with the F7 kit, the return cranks have been fitted to the centre outer bushes and the connecting rod to cross joint made with a 10BA bolt. To make things easier when taking down and reassembling, the spacing washers between the connecting and coupling rods have been soldered to the back of the connecting rods. Here are the right hand parts ready for refitting .

At the other end, the hole has been drilled to clear a 10BA bolt and the outer face of the cross head tapped 10BA. The hole on the inner face of the cross head has been drilled to clear 10BA and counter sunk. Here the left hand side is bolted together and the drop link soldered in place.


This is the right hand wheel with the return crank in place and adjusted to the correct position when tightened.


And with it all on place.




And back with the body.


I think the right hand rear valve chest is drooping a little so that will be attended to.


Cheers,
Peter

 

[Peter Cross]

Why have I never thought about soldering the washer on. Now noted and will be plagiarized.

The model looks a pleasure to build.

Looking forward to getting my hands on my Finney7 M7 next year.

 

[P A D]

Why have I never thought about soldering the washer on. Now noted and will be plagiarized.

The model looks a pleasure to build.

Looking forward to getting my hands on my Finney7 M7 next year.

Sometimes the blindingly obvious evades us all. I will now do the same on the A3 and a one or two others. Makes putting the return crank and bush on easier as the washer can't drop between the two bushes.

Yes its an absolute joy when every thing fits. Compared to the Oakville Jubilee, the M7 will be a walk in the park. I look forward to seeing your build.
Cheers,
Peter

 

[Deano747]

As always Peter, first class work!

Regards, Rob.

 

[P A D]

Many thanks Deano.

I came across a lot of useful information posted by Mickoo in his thread "My 7mm Dabblings" regarding the fixings on the front end. It seems there was a lot of variations not always appreciated and Mick has thrown a lot of light on this, that I hadn't noted before. However, one area not covered and which I spotted during my Acme A4 build, is just under and to the right of the buffer stock in this photo, reposted from Mick's thread. There is a square panel bolted to the bulbous covers on both sides, with I think 8 bolts. I remember considering putting them on the Acme model, but they are not on in the photo of the unpainted model posted earlier. I'll check that later, but wondered if anybody could throw any light on what they may have been for. I have spotted them on several of the A4s but I'm not sure if they were on them all, of indeed if they were originally fitted when built. Mallard has them in the photo posted by Compton Castle on Mick's thread, showing her running during the interchange trials, so would appear to have been an LNER fitting. Not a detail I'm going to fret about if not on the model, but curious.

 

[Sparky]

Hi Peter

No doubt you are aware of the on going blog at the NRM concerning the overhaul of SNG.
Blog number 34 ( Sir Nigel Gresley overhaul – Update 34 ) shows the front fairing with the aforementioned panel removed.
Excellent build - following with great interest
Happy Christmas to all

Bob

 

[P A D]

Hi Bob,
No I was not aware of this blog. Many thanks for the heads up - brilliant! Been scouring through my books and found a good image showing the panel on Falcon on page 200 "TheBook of the A4s". Been looking at images of the streamlined P2s but don't see the panel, although the rebuilt W1 had them after the valances were removed. Looked at lots of images of the A4s as built and I don't see them, so it begs the question when and why they were added. Not a critical detail being hidden away, but easy enough to knock up the panels from shim brass and glue on.
Below the image from the NRM website mentioned by Bob.
Cheers,
Peter

PS. this image shows how wrong everybody has got the bogie!

 

[Steph Dale]

...easy enough to knock up the panels from shim brass and glue on.

Pete,
It looks to me to be an inset panel - in which case scribing its outline will look better than an applied piece. I'll be interested to see how you get hold of bolt heads that small though!

Interesting to note that the section of the panel looks to be perfectly rectangular from underneath; is that how the secondary buffer springs are removed, I wonder?

Steph

 

[mickoo]

The blog states quite clearly that it is an access panel to Jack the locomotive up by the buffers. The red stands are not supporting the engine on the buffers but on the main frames where the original guard irons were fitted.

 

[Steph Dale]

That makes sense - it would certainly explain why the shape of the panel is developed from the underside of the cladding rather than the front.

Steph