Finney 7 LNER A4

[P A D]

Pete,
It looks to me to be an inset panel - in which case scribing its outline will look better than an applied piece. I'll be interested to see how you get hold of bolt heads that small though!

Interesting to note that the section of the panel looks to be perfectly rectangular from underneath; is that how the secondary buffer springs are removed, I wonder?

Steph

You're right Steph. Maybe not so easy to do after all particularly as it is curving in 2 planes. I checked my Acme A4 and I did not put them on after all, but I do remember considering it.

The blog states quite clearly that it is an access panel to Jack the locomotive up by the buffers. The red stands are not supporting the engine on the buffers but on the main frames where the original guard irons were fitted.

Duuuurgh! Note to self - read the caption.


Cheers,
Peter

 

[P A D]

Moving on to the valve gear here are the the expansion links and radius rods being assembled. The expansion link is made from 4 parts pinned with 0.5mm rod and soldered.

The radius rod is assembled around the inner two laminates and then the outer laminates are added. Here they are before the outer faces were added to the expansion link.


And completed.


Here the pivots for the expansion link are being prepared in the motion bracket. First short lengths of rod are soldered in place, trimmed and cleaned up.


Clamped in the vice , I then made two cuts with the piercing saw to remove the centre portion, to leave a "stud" either side for the expansion link to pivot on.

Here the one on the right has been sprung into place. The other one shows the washers soldered either side of the link to take up the slack and keep it centred in the bracket.


Next the two to one levers and front valve rods were made up.


And trial fit in the valve guides.

The 12 BA bolt is just placed through the holes to line it up.


Here are a couple of views from each side showing it all in place.



And with the body on. I'm pleased to say the return crank lines up nicely with the union link, no bending will be required, which spoils the look of the gear.



Finally, as it won't have a speedo fitted, I swapped the 12 BA steel nut for a cast NS one from Laurie Griffin and trimmed the excess bolt on the left rear driver.


Cheers,
Peter

 

[P A D]

The valve gear is mostly complete now appart from a few remaining pieces and some tidying up here and there. The kit provides an etch part on the N/S fret for the gap at the end of the slide bars, but it should be brass so I'll replace it. The overlay for the bearing on the return crank is still to be added, and I'll do that with epoxy.



All joints are pinned with lengths of N/S rod soldered on the back of the forks only. Must be improving as I didn't manage to solder any of the joints solid this time. I'll need to suss out what lubricator piping is needed otherwise the A3 will show it up.


For the moment the link between the front and rear valve rods is a length of cable insulation. I'm considering leaving that on as it works OK and on the A4 can always be got at later if needs be.


The cylinders and valve gear are demountable which is a benefit when painting. I'll take it off and take some photos when it's done.

Here's a view with he body on.


And t'other side.


And with the tender. The other benefit of the resin casting is that it stays clean, unlike the brass, which tarnishes if you look at it.


Some closer views of the valve gear.


I still need to fit the Laurie Griffin castle nuts to the coupling rod joints.





Looks the part and aas quite straight forward. I hope the 2mm valve gear (lubricator linkages) go together as easily.





Cheers,
Peter

 

[Genghis]

The lubricator linkages are a lot of fun (!). I was only pleased that it was the 7mm kit I built not the 4mm! They look the part when complete though.
Excellent work as always.
Dave

 

[P A D]

The lubricator linkages are a lot of fun (!). I was only pleased that it was the 7mm kit I built not the 4mm! They look the part when complete though.
Excellent work as always.
Dave

Many thanks David.
I got it to work on the Acme model, albeit in a somewhat blue atmosphere, so I'm expecting an easier time with the Finney version. We'll see.
Cheers,
Peter

 

[P A D]

The valve gear is all done and dusted.


I decided to go with a "U" shaped piece of wire to link the valve rods. The slide bar extension inside the cylinders supports the wire when soldering. A drop of oil is needed to allow smooth running.


Back on the chassis set in mid gear. The return crank bearing cover has also been fitted.


Reverse gear.

Forward gear.


The reversing lever is fixed with a length of wire at the rear, soldered into a hole in the rear frame and to a bracket on the main frame about mid way. At the front you can pin it to the arm on the lifting link, but only in mid gear. At the moment the pin is soldered to the reversing lever but loose in the arm. I'll decide what to do on that later.



Here are some views with the body on. Leaving the reversing lever loose at the front is not really an option as it is very thin and easily bent.

The slide bar ends have now been closed with a length of 1mm square brass rod.


T'other side.

The bearing cover on the return crank was carefully glued in place with epoxy so as not to gum up the works.



I think the daylight seen above the valve guide is due to the gap in the frames for dropping the cylinders in. I'll see if I can fill that with a strip of waste etch soldered to the cylinder stretcher either side.


No daylight this side but the angle is different.


They don't show much being hid behind the frames at the rear, but I must get some injectors from Ragstone. I'm not sure if the kit caters for the cod's mouth winding mechanism visible on the frames in front of the valve guide, but if not I'll knock something up.


Which makes me wonder if the winding mech was on both sides? Need to check.


Cheers,
Peter

 

[Silverystreaks]

Which makes me wonder if the winding mech was o both sides? Need to check.
View attachment 95987

Cheers,
Peter[/QUOTE]

Peter
Yes there was winding mech on both sides

Regards
Bob L

 

[P A D]

Many thanks Bob.

So two sets of winding gear to make and the bogie side checks. I'm having to do more scratch building than Nick Dunhill on his NG G16! These Finney Kits are not all they are cracked up to be.

OK, they most definitely are.

Cheers,
Peter

PS. Wonder if the above were on the W1?

 

[P A D]

So on to the lubricators and linkages.
I've plagarised Nick Dunhill's technique for rounding of the etched hand wheels. First they were soldered to a short length of rod, to allow turning in the drill and rounding off the cusp with a file and emery. To finish off I rub the outer faces on a nail buffer. Here's a before and after view

And after polishing on the nail buffer.


Here the lubricators have been mounted on the bracket and the links fitted to the rear one. The remaining link is to the right and as can be seen upper left, there are spare links in case you screw up.


And with the front link added.


Here is the return crank and eccentric rod. The rod is half etched and very thin so I decided to beef it up with some spare half etch strip.


The joints are pinned with 0.6mm NS rod soldered on the rear faces only.


Here's the real thing on Bittern.


And here the return crank/eccentric joint.

And my interpretation on the model.




The tops of the lubricator castings needed some filing and polishing to get them smooth.


And with the body on. The apertures in the running plate needed a little filing to clear the lubricators, but nothing much.




I made a start on the draw bar but ran out of time, so some rounding of the rear end is still to be done. I should have soldered a 6BA nut on the running plate under the footplate, but muppet that I am, I overlooked it. To get around that a nut had been soldered to the underside of the rear spacer. The draw bar has been laminated from 3 strips of waste etch rather than use the flimsy etchings supplied.



And a final shot with the tender


Cheers ,
Peter

 

[Genghis]

I'm looking forward to the video: the valve gear and lubricator drive in motion is quite hypnotic.

 

[simond]

I see it isn’t only Slaters’ wheels that go rusty...

Season’s Greetings
Simon

 

[P A D]

Finally got back to the A4 last night after the Christmas break, but don't have a lot to show after two sessions scratch building. The kit doesn't provide the bogie side check plates fitted to the A4s after construction, the cod's mouth winding tube and bracket or AWS and bogie dust shield. Actually it does supply the latter but not the correct version, but I was able to modify it. Here's the bogie with the side check plates fitted. I made thrm a bit deeper the they should be to cover the middle hole in the frame. Below are the brackets for supporting winding tube.


For and AWS fitted loco, the bogie front plate needs replacing with a deeper vertically fitted one. To remove the original, first cut out the middle section with a slitting disc, then clamped the guard irons with forceps to prevent them moving whilst I unsoldered the remains of the front plate. The replacement made from waste etch is ready to be fitted.


I knocked up the brackets and AWS fittings using photos of SNG's bogie under restoration at the NRM, apart from the contact shoe, which based on the one on Bittern. It took a long time to make the right angle brackets and webbing for the AWS, which is now mainly covered by the modified dust shield from the kit. For the contact shoe, I used a thick circular disc i found in my bits and pieces box. Not sure what it was for but used one the same for my Acme build, so had it for years. SNG has a rectangular block shaped shoe, but have no idea which is correct for BR.


The reinforced cable is represented by copper wire with a 12 BA thread added.


And a view of the contact shoe. I say "contact", but as far as I know it does not touch anything.


Here are the winding mech brackets after fitting to the frames. The tube for the winding handle runs across the frames. I simply copied what is on the DJH model from photo downloaded from their website some years ago. How accutaccurate they are I don't know, but only the bottom can be seen below the valve guide.

And t'other side. Which reminds me I need to add the fixing brackets to the bogie splashers.


Here's what can be seen when it's all together.




This is my solution to provide a firm fixing for the reversing shaft, while allowing the gear to be reversible. The pin that connects to the reversing arm has been cut and filed flush on the inside. This allow the arm to move past the shaft. To secure the end of the shaft, I've added a length of 0.9mm NS rod, but jointed to the shaft and soldered into a hole drilled into the frame.


I have also beefed up the shaft by soldering 2 lengths of rod on the inside running along it's length. Neither of these additions are visible on the rails.

In forward gear it can just be seen that the rod and the arm are not connected, but most of the time it will not be noticeable.

And in reverse.


Here's a front end view. The coupling hook is just a temporary one, added so I could tow it around the Keighley test track at the weekend, with the Duchess. The coupling shield and brake pipe will be added next.


Nearly there now. Just cylinder drain cocks, sanding pipes and injectors are needed to complete the detail on the chassis. Then the cab interior needs doung and of course, the motor and pick ups.


Oh, and a bracket for the smokebox number plate.

Cheers,
Peter

 

[P A D]

View attachment 96179

I see it isn’t only Slaters’ wheels that go rusty...

Season’s Greetings
Simon

Yes, they do just what the real ones do, but we all moan about them.

 

[P A D]

I was hoping to get all the external detailing on the chassis completed, but I didn't quite make it. Sand pipes and fixing bracket on the bogie splashers are still needed, but I digressed slightly. First the vacuum pipe, coupling and bash plate were added to the front end. I've taken the CPL coupling off the storage hook on the tender and put it on the loco. I'll put a generic one from the spares box on the tender where it is less obvious and save me the cost of another set from CPL.

Then I filled in the slot in the motion bracket, which was slightly visible from low angles. Cruel close up shows how crappy my work is!


I then soldered the motion bracket spacer to the stretcher from the slide bar bracket and and dispensed with the nut and bolt. This allowed me to add an additional spacer to the frames so that the rear of the cylinder/valve gear assembly can be firmly fixed.


Finally I made a start on adding the remaining details. Here's the left hand drain cocks and pipes.


And the right hand side.


The filler pipes to the sand boxes were also added and I intend to add some detachable infill pieces to the frames, to close the top of the slots for the 2:1 levers.


The state of play so far.




While I had the A3 out at the weekend I took this front end comparison.
You can see how large the holes for the 2:1 levers are on the A4. I still need to add the spring castings to the rear of the buffer beam on the A3.


And a head on view. The smoke box front looks off centre, but it twists and is not permanently fixed yet so no worries.

Cheers,
Peter

 

[P A D]

I had short spell at the bench this afternoon and refitted the wheels in preparation for adding and lining up the sand pipes. Took a few extra piccies first as some of my recent ones show signs of camera shake. Here is the valve gear assembly after soldering the motion bracket spacer to the stretcher on the slide bar bracket. I think I will also add an infill piece to the the gap at the top of the slide bar bracket, as it is noticeably absent from some viewing angles. I will do the same on the A3.

This view shows the additional spacer just above the inner sandboxes, to anchor the rear of the cylinder/valve gear assembly. The sandbox filler pipes were soldered in place with a good dollup of 145 with plenty of flux. No attempt has been made to remove the excess.

And from a low angle. When it came to the rivets on the frames, I could not find any photos of Golden Fleece that clearly showed where the rivets were (or not) in @ 1957, so I just thought sod it, punch the lot. Not acceptable for some but good enough for me. The beefed up brake pull rods look a little heavy in this view, but the half etchings as provided are just not robust enough.


Just been reading Mickoo's latest W1 update and as a comparison of his design approach compared to Martin Finney's, I have reposted one of Mick's images of the W1 chassis. Hope you don't mind Mick.


And the A4.


I think many will agree that whilst Martin's approach is excellent overall and is still very much at the cutting edge of 7mm kit technology, there are areas that needed improving. As documented here and in my A3 thread, it is not too difficult to upgrade the appearance of the existing brake rigging and spring hangers, but the changes made by F7 are clearly better. The cast turn buckles, the pull rod shackles and cross beams are clearly superior to the original Finney design. Looking at these images I think mine will benefit from having the bolts on the spring shackles filed down a little, but overall I am pleased with the appearance. The change to plastic brake shoes on etched hangers on the W1 is also a step forward, particularly on a chassis built fully compensated. I wonder if F7 will make them available as sepatate items for future A3 and A4 purchasers, who may wish to cut off and replace the etched brake shoes?

Mick has of course added much more interior frame detail but that is something entirely different and I just thought it interesting to compare some apple to apple areas.

Anyway, the frames with the wheels back in.


And a couple of images of the bogie with AWS and side bearer additions.


Which now reminds me that I need to add the AWS conduit to the left hand running plate valance. As I final thought, I don't know why I did not use the widest spacer for the bogie, as it would negate having to put two washers either side to take up the slack in the axles , which is not not needed. Maybe next time.

Cheers,
Peter

 

[Dikitriki]

Hi Peter,

A tremendous job as ever, and one I will follow when building mine.

To answer your question, yes the plastic (resin) brake shoes will be made available in packs of 6. A general reminder that any of our castings from any kit is available separately.

Richard

 

[mickoo]

Peter, not at all, feel free to carry on.

For the record, the W1 bogie is a different design to the A3/A4 and does not have side control plates and I hadn't added the smoke box door handle brackets, but have now

The resin brake shoes are a standard LNER fitting suitable for all Pacifics and the V2, though you may have to adjust the tread radius to suit the smaller wheels but i doubt it'd be that noticeable if you didn't.

Fitting them to existing etches might be a bit of a chore, trimming, cleaning, filing etc so it might be better to simply use the new the brake hanger as well, it fits the existing kits hanger brackets.

Upgrades of LNER engines is in the pipeline, as you say, brake rigging is one easy area to upgrade, either in the kit or as a standalone package; much of the rigging and linkages are common but the brake shafts and their cams are different so we'd need to look at bespoke ones for each type of engine.

Whilst the new rigging is more detailed, it's not as quick to fabricate as Martins original version and that's a big benefit of the original style. You do need to set aside some time to fold it all up and pin it, the clevis links can be a chore to de cusp and carefully fold (spares are provided) but I have to confess, it is rather satisfying once it's all finished to see it all work and equalise like the real thing.

You may or may not know, but there is a small splasher on the inside of the motion bracket, just a minor detail hidden up under there.



Dirty work again I see....pahh

 

[simond]

Sums it up really, his “dirty work” is a standard I’d aspire to...

 

[P A D]

Sums it up really, his “dirty work” is a standard I’d aspire to...

For most of us Mick's standard is extremely high, but I can see where he is coming from, especially when the images are for the instructions. That said, I doubt if any other kit maker who has used photos in their instructions (including MOK), have got anywhere near the standard of cleanliness of Mick's build.

Richard,
Thanks for the kind words on the A4 build and for confirming the availability of the brake parts.

Mick,
Thanks for your comments also. No I was not aware of the splasher under the motion bracket, but you live and learn. I note also that on the W1, the bracket has the correct profile at the top edge and no slot as on the A4 and A3 etches.

It's clear that you have taken the Finney concept to the next level with the degree of detail you have designed in. Sure the come at the expense of being more complex to build and more time consuming, but from what you have shown, all the parts fit as they should so won't take any pleasure out of the build. I'm looking forward to building one.

I note in the original post by Richard that the DJH version has the BR type double chimney with a step at the rear. Yours has the original LNER style tapering all the way down to the casing so for the BR period is one incorrect?

Looking forward to the rest of the build.

Cheers,
Peter

 

[mickoo]

Peter,

That's right, the motion bracket is the correct profile, however that comes with a downside in that it's permanently fixed, as are the cylinders. The debate on fixed or removable has rumbled on many years, both have advantages and both have disadvantages and I suspect it's a Marmite thing.

There is also no slot above the 2:1 levers, which requires the levers to be built up and inserted through the frames and the 2:1 lever stay, it can be done with four sub assemblies and a few pins strategically placed. I'm just about to do that today and post up some photos for future builders

Regarding the chimney, I couldn't find any definitive evidence, drawings or detailed photographs, that it had the later BR chimney (no doubt that information will now appear ), so I've had to run with the highest probability that it retained the LNER one. I'm also not sure all the A4 received the later type either to be honest, I suspect they may have but finding a close up photo of that one area just before they were scrapped (which is the only real way of knowing) is not easy.

Being as the chimney is now integral with the casing we had to pick one or the other, running a double set of castings for the casing for a minor detail like that is cost prohibitive.

We could of kept the original format, but thought attaching the chimney to the core casing was a bigger bonus to a larger audience.

MD