Monks Ferry: a layout for the Grandchildren.
- Thread starter jonte
- Start date
jonte
Western Thunderer
Domesticity, due to my better half’s recent incapacitation, has seen reduced periods at the desk of late, but chores don’t put paid to mind modelling, which I do a lot of these days as mentioned.
But there has been a spot of progress on the actual modelling front thanks in the main to this ‘just thinking about it’ mode.
I’ve been making windows.
Strange, I know, as there’s still no structure to which they can be attached, but I liken it to the ‘chicken & egg’ situation where I decided to make a start on signals before laying the track. As I’ve explained this before, I shaln’t bore you with the whys and wherefores once again, apart from to say that in this case, it’s helping to work out how the structure will not only look at the ‘business end’as I refer to it, but most importantly how I can construct it. Enough waffle.
Prior to the build, I bought up umpteen styles of windows from a variety of sources as I’d still no idea of how I wanted the build to look, including some rather elderly window frames - purchased for a pittance off an auction site - that a senior gentleman friend of mine rightly pointed out are called Bayko. I think that’s because they might be constructed of Bakelite ? Whatever, they’re brittle and I spent more time on my hands n knees routing round the carpet for the multitude of bits that had pinged off but were vital in it’s construction of amalgamating two sets each into one, so their recovery was essential as I’d only purchased four. They took an age to arrive so I wasn’t going down that road again.
Here they are in their initial‘merged’ form, and then dressed with offcuts of styrene:
They still need tidying up, but the idea came from poring over images of termini, many of which seemed to sport a formal type swathed in architectural features such as mini balconies clothed in balustrades, hence the bits gleaned from the spares box to finish them off as seen in the second photo.
In the first, you might just make out some laser windows which I’ve started dry brushing but which will require a second visit. Again, from images I’ve found, I’m thinking of arranging them in twos, set into a stone surround to sympathise with the stone construction of the front. This - like everything else - is yet to be finalised, which just means fiddling with them on the mat and trying out bits of styrene sheet offcuts etc..
Also can be seen are Wills’ trusty English bond brick sheets which are sturdy enough on their own but will tailored into the rest of the structure.
Yes, they’re chunky, but scale isn’t a priority here and in any case, my SEF ones just get lost in the detail. Additionally, they will be a better choice for the method I have in mind. More again.
I noted that the business ends of many ‘fancy’ stations are in simple brick, hence the idea behind it. I also fancied a change from the all-over dressed stone look, although I’ve changed my mind umpteen times already about this idea. An image from one of the arches near to the real Waterloo station stored a while back really struck a chord, and I’ve been dying to give it a go ever since. Whether it’s appropriate here only time will tell, but in any case I’ve bitten the bullet.
Many thanks for looking and I hope this is of interest.
Jon
But there has been a spot of progress on the actual modelling front thanks in the main to this ‘just thinking about it’ mode.
I’ve been making windows.
Strange, I know, as there’s still no structure to which they can be attached, but I liken it to the ‘chicken & egg’ situation where I decided to make a start on signals before laying the track. As I’ve explained this before, I shaln’t bore you with the whys and wherefores once again, apart from to say that in this case, it’s helping to work out how the structure will not only look at the ‘business end’as I refer to it, but most importantly how I can construct it. Enough waffle.
Prior to the build, I bought up umpteen styles of windows from a variety of sources as I’d still no idea of how I wanted the build to look, including some rather elderly window frames - purchased for a pittance off an auction site - that a senior gentleman friend of mine rightly pointed out are called Bayko. I think that’s because they might be constructed of Bakelite ? Whatever, they’re brittle and I spent more time on my hands n knees routing round the carpet for the multitude of bits that had pinged off but were vital in it’s construction of amalgamating two sets each into one, so their recovery was essential as I’d only purchased four. They took an age to arrive so I wasn’t going down that road again.
Here they are in their initial‘merged’ form, and then dressed with offcuts of styrene:
They still need tidying up, but the idea came from poring over images of termini, many of which seemed to sport a formal type swathed in architectural features such as mini balconies clothed in balustrades, hence the bits gleaned from the spares box to finish them off as seen in the second photo.
In the first, you might just make out some laser windows which I’ve started dry brushing but which will require a second visit. Again, from images I’ve found, I’m thinking of arranging them in twos, set into a stone surround to sympathise with the stone construction of the front. This - like everything else - is yet to be finalised, which just means fiddling with them on the mat and trying out bits of styrene sheet offcuts etc..
Also can be seen are Wills’ trusty English bond brick sheets which are sturdy enough on their own but will tailored into the rest of the structure.
Yes, they’re chunky, but scale isn’t a priority here and in any case, my SEF ones just get lost in the detail. Additionally, they will be a better choice for the method I have in mind. More again.
I noted that the business ends of many ‘fancy’ stations are in simple brick, hence the idea behind it. I also fancied a change from the all-over dressed stone look, although I’ve changed my mind umpteen times already about this idea. An image from one of the arches near to the real Waterloo station stored a while back really struck a chord, and I’ve been dying to give it a go ever since. Whether it’s appropriate here only time will tell, but in any case I’ve bitten the bullet.
Many thanks for looking and I hope this is of interest.
Jon
jonte
Western Thunderer
Something like this:
Glazing after painting then a waft of acrylic Matt varnish from behind which will mask the empty interior from the viewer.
The intention is to light this side of the building hopefully to the delight of the children; the LEDs - replete with resistors- having arrived from the Orient a couple of weeks’ ago.
I’ll probably paint the lenses to warm the light.
Thanks for looking.
jonte
Glazing after painting then a waft of acrylic Matt varnish from behind which will mask the empty interior from the viewer.
The intention is to light this side of the building hopefully to the delight of the children; the LEDs - replete with resistors- having arrived from the Orient a couple of weeks’ ago.
I’ll probably paint the lenses to warm the light.
Thanks for looking.
jonte
jonte
Western Thunderer
Another quick post to show these laser sashes being tested for fit after painting:
Yet to be assembled and merely placed (to give myself an idea of how they go together), just the glass panes (clear styrene supplied with kit) for the top sash have been fitted. The bottom sash has yet to be addressed. I’m sure many of you are familiar with this type of laser kit on the market these days.
Placed against the brick to decide a suitable surround/lintel/sill etc:
Still undecided.
Another observation and something many termini have in common is a coat of arms.
Mooching about on a familiar auction site I discovered this:
Basically a broach measuring about 30mm square. Nip off the pin and I guessed it might work so purchased it.
Set into something like this:
…….formed of offcuts of plasticard and plonked on the parapet of the rear of the building I’m currently constructing, and I think it’ll do.
Just to give an idea of the myriad ideas keeping me awake at nights……
Thanks again.
jonte
Yet to be assembled and merely placed (to give myself an idea of how they go together), just the glass panes (clear styrene supplied with kit) for the top sash have been fitted. The bottom sash has yet to be addressed. I’m sure many of you are familiar with this type of laser kit on the market these days.
Placed against the brick to decide a suitable surround/lintel/sill etc:
Still undecided.
Another observation and something many termini have in common is a coat of arms.
Mooching about on a familiar auction site I discovered this:
Basically a broach measuring about 30mm square. Nip off the pin and I guessed it might work so purchased it.
Set into something like this:
…….formed of offcuts of plasticard and plonked on the parapet of the rear of the building I’m currently constructing, and I think it’ll do.
Just to give an idea of the myriad ideas keeping me awake at nights……
Thanks again.
jonte
jonte
Western Thunderer
Thanks, Simon.
Please forgive the misspelling, ‘bcoroh’; the correct spelling is ‘pin badge’
I’ve toyed with the painting aspect including just misting with acrylic Matt varnish to priming and blackening with a hint of red (oil magenta) like that shown in my previous at Blackfriars’ bridge to match the surround. Hmmmmm……..food for thought.
Jon
John57sharp
Western Thunderer
What a great idea! Well done Jon.
These modern windows are a godsend, the new tech is making life so much easier.
Keep it up!
John
These modern windows are a godsend, the new tech is making life so much easier.
Keep it up!
John
sjp23480
Western Thunderer
Jonte,
I have just stumbled on your thread and your outstanding work.
Windows can often ruin a building as they are so difficult to get right, but yours look spot on to me.
40 pages of your thread is quite an achievement for WT - next few hours will be spent catching up.
Can you please adopt me to be one of your grandchildren?
Stephen
I have just stumbled on your thread and your outstanding work.
Windows can often ruin a building as they are so difficult to get right, but yours look spot on to me.
40 pages of your thread is quite an achievement for WT - next few hours will be spent catching up.
Can you please adopt me to be one of your grandchildren?
Stephen
jonte
Western Thunderer
Indeed they are, John.
They’re relatively tiny and require care, but still look a lot better and less frustrating than making from scratch.
Jon
jonte
Western Thunderer
Your kind interest is most welcome and flattering, Stephen. I’m not worthy!
Frankly, I’m trusting to luck modelling this as I’m never really sure whether it will work or not, so thank you for the compliment regarding the windows.
The bonus of this type of ‘fundamental’ modelling as I refer to it is that as long as the trains go round - eventually- the children will be happy as the built environment will probably just go over their heads. And I suppose if it all goes awry, only we will know about it
Btw: I wouldn’t bother reading the drivel I’ve written over these umpteen pages since I started it, Stephen. Just stick to the pictures …..
Jon
jonte
Western Thunderer
Finished assembling the window frames and did a quick mock up arrangement to see what might - or might not be appropriate.
The first go, which I’m not sure about. The Execs in my occupation resided on the first floor (second floor if reading from overseas), so this wouldn’t have gone down too well:
The next which I believe met with the approval of the shareholders:
In actual fact, this is more like the second or even third floor when looking from the railway side, however, the overall roof prevents them being sited and further down, so I’m stuck really with this if the first scenario.
The observant amongst us will notice the coat of arms which arrived in the morning post so I pinned it into the fabric of the cardboard in a prominent position:
Poshest piece of cardboard I’ve ever seen!
Your thoughts and interest as always are most welcome.
jonte
The first go, which I’m not sure about. The Execs in my occupation resided on the first floor (second floor if reading from overseas), so this wouldn’t have gone down too well:
The next which I believe met with the approval of the shareholders:
In actual fact, this is more like the second or even third floor when looking from the railway side, however, the overall roof prevents them being sited and further down, so I’m stuck really with this if the first scenario.
The observant amongst us will notice the coat of arms which arrived in the morning post so I pinned it into the fabric of the cardboard in a prominent position:
Poshest piece of cardboard I’ve ever seen!
Your thoughts and interest as always are most welcome.
jonte
John57sharp
Western Thunderer
Jonte your balconied windows put me in mind if my last work place, Cunard Building, which has them on the 1st floor, above the very grand, double-height reception rooms etc.
They look fab, as does the crest, I prefer the last photo FWIW.
They look fab, as does the crest, I prefer the last photo FWIW.
The pin-badge is a brilliant idea! Which I will steal, if you don’t mind. I can just see the Royal Coat of Arms (or similar) on the front of my station hotel …
Martin
jonte
Western Thunderer
jonte
Western Thunderer
Perhaps that image was firmly rooted in my subconscious having passed the building many times over the years. Maybe it wasn’t a figment of my imagination after all
Thanks for the compliments, John, and for sharing your preference of the window arrangement.
Jon
sjp23480
Western Thunderer
Hi @jonte
Something doesn't look quite right with your proposed window arrangement, so I took a look at some buildings to figure out why.
On large/grand buildings:
1. Windows seem to get smaller as you go up the floors
2. So, smaller windows are unlikely to be alongside larger ones
3. Windows are arranged vertically up the building
4, Lower stories appear higher/taller than the upper floors. Although this may be a an illusion created by the larger windows?
See below for two examples
Maybe have the two large windows on one storey, slightly lower than their current position. Remove the two lowest smaller windows (which make the building look a bit top heavy, and arrange the smaller windows in pairs above.
Dormer windows in the roof would look great!
I hope this helps?
Stephen
St Pancras:
Charing Cross:
Something doesn't look quite right with your proposed window arrangement, so I took a look at some buildings to figure out why.
On large/grand buildings:
1. Windows seem to get smaller as you go up the floors
2. So, smaller windows are unlikely to be alongside larger ones
3. Windows are arranged vertically up the building
4, Lower stories appear higher/taller than the upper floors. Although this may be a an illusion created by the larger windows?
See below for two examples
Maybe have the two large windows on one storey, slightly lower than their current position. Remove the two lowest smaller windows (which make the building look a bit top heavy, and arrange the smaller windows in pairs above.
Dormer windows in the roof would look great!
I hope this helps?
Stephen
St Pancras:
Charing Cross:
jonte
Western Thunderer
Hi Stephen, and thank you for your interest and constructive input.
Apologies for not replying sooner however my grandchildren have only just left.
I concur wholeheartedly with each of your submissions especially the appropriate layout and arrangement of floors and windows as evidenced by your attached photos. Funnily enough, over the last couple of days I’ve revisited many termini including stored photos and internet searches, and whilst doing a search on Kings Cross, images of St. Pancras also flashed up.
For instance, here’s one of Liverpool’s Central High Level station which has been a major influence on my decision making regarding the business end of the build as I refer to it, and indeed shows the arrangement of windows sited large to small as you correctly observe:
As you can tell from my latest research, I’m also not happy with the layout shown thus far so am totally on board with your obs, Stephen.
Perhaps it might help if I account for what you have seen, which was mainly to test the positioning of the balcony windows as touched on previously, although I took the opportunity to determine the number and sizes of windows which could be accommodated using the smaller sash windows, within the exposed area I.e. not obstructed by the positioning of the overall roof, thus only part of the face of the building is a available for the purpose.
As mentioned previously, I acquired window frames of varying sizes prior to starting to give a selection, including one or two from the spares box in addition to the sash windows shown.
Ideally I had the smallest earmarked for the top (Peco from the spares):
…..followed by the small sashes as seen, then onto a lower floor using the longer sash windows from Scale Scenery(?) as sen here:
Although listed as OO gauge, they appear more akin to o gauge such is their length. In all honesty, given the limited space, it would have been difficult to accommodate them to say nothing of looking out of proportion.
As for double window arrangements, I’d considered this as mentioned in a previous post and over the weekend made a mock up using some of the packaging from which they were removed:
To save boring you, this would have created further work and I need quick fix solutions or I’d never finish, so binned the idea - well, using this option for now - and had a bash at creating a stone surround from styrene sheet to create an easier way of making the single arrangement of the small sashes look more formal:
This started to strike a chord, but was still lacking in formality compared to the balconies.
Thus I came up with a simple addition of some more shaped styrene section:
I might use some of the offcuts to increase the length of the frame at the top, but I think for the time save, what you see in the last image should suffice. Currently, I’m also considering returning to the idea of using the tiny Peco sashes at the top again.
I like your idea of placing windows in the dormers, however I’m going to go with prototype here and portray them as they appear in the photos of Blackfriars.
Finally, Stephen, the use of small windows either side of the balconies was purely to add as many ‘holes’ as possible for the planned LEDs to shine out of. Due to the space taken by the balconies on that level, accommodating them thus was simply a case of expediency, if that makes sense?
This is probably one of the drawbacks of fundamental modelling as I refer to it, Stephen, which is very much a case of striking a balance of what it is prototypical and what appeals to the children. As the saying goes , it’s a case of knowing your audience
I hope I haven’t confused you with all of this and that it goes someway to helping you see where I’m coming from.
Thanks once again,
Jon
jonte
Western Thunderer
Hi again, Stephen @sjp23480
As you were kind enough to contribute earlier, I decided to make up for loss of time on the project today by working on it this evening.
In particular, I’ve worked on making the small sashes more formal and appropriate for the purpose I’m trying to achieve encouraged by your earlier research.
To that end I’ve produced these which achieve - I hope - a more formal appearance with the least amount of work
:
I’ve also placed one over a sash to give you an idea.
Tomorrow I’ll tidy them up (when glue has dried) and hopefully give them a blast of primer. Then I’ll try rearranging them on the mock up to see if it works.
Many thanks once again for your kind interest.
Jon
As you were kind enough to contribute earlier, I decided to make up for loss of time on the project today by working on it this evening.
In particular, I’ve worked on making the small sashes more formal and appropriate for the purpose I’m trying to achieve encouraged by your earlier research.
To that end I’ve produced these which achieve - I hope - a more formal appearance with the least amount of work
:I’ve also placed one over a sash to give you an idea.
Tomorrow I’ll tidy them up (when glue has dried) and hopefully give them a blast of primer. Then I’ll try rearranging them on the mock up to see if it works.
Many thanks once again for your kind interest.
Jon
Phil O
Western Thunderer
The late Sir William McAlpine has one of those in his back garden, along with lots of other railway memorabilia salvaged from various worksites, during his career.
jonte
Western Thunderer
Hi Phil
Is that the crest from Blackfriars’ bridge in the earlier photo you are referring to?
Jon