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[Jordan]

JLRT Class 08?

I've been traversing rather moist motorways while this thread has taken off tonight/this morning..!!

I do take the point that 25% is a) not that great a mark-up and b) does mean JLTRT kits will never sell for the sort of money I consider affordable.
There are of course other makes such as Loveless who's prices are so beyond my reach as to not even figure on my 'radar' and hardly get mentioned in threads like this - but someone must buy their stuff !!!
Having had "discussions" on RMweb in the past with David about "Budget" O scale, MMP & so forth (I think I still have some humble pie to finish off somewhere.. ) I do appreciate the pricing of MMP kits more now, and especially the comparison of them with other kits in a similar price range. One thing that does help with the view of O scale being "expensive" is the constantly increasing prices of OO & N scale, which, apart from being almost the same as each other, are now regularly seeming to hit or pass the ?100 mark for locos, and over ?25 for wagons. :shock:

 

[lancer1027]

JLRT Class 08?

Hi Jordan, I think that even tho the JLTRT 08 looks exellent i have that many other things i need to buy that are more of a priority , but i maybe oneday buy one.(wont be in the next 3/4 years).

"your quote"
"There are of course other makes such as Loveless who's prices are so beyond my reach as to not even figure on my 'radar' and hardly get mentioned in threads like this - but someone must buy their stuff !!!
i was sat having a bite to eat at Telford when i noticed a bloke ( not that old) sat at one of the tables next to me had a Loveless DELTIC box on his table Now unless it was an empty box he had just spent some serious money
So yes some people do buy their stuff.

Rob :wave:

 

[Simon Dunkley]

JLRT Class 08?

One of the reasons David's kits are priced as they are is his considerable experience in designing and producing components, not just for model railways, either. Quite simply when you buy one of his kits, you are paying very little money for a lot of detail and an enormous amount of expertise. I suspect that his activities in sales to military modelling subsidise his model railway output in ways no one has fully quantified.

Hope that helps.

It is true that we gain a volume advantage on some buy-ins and tooling due to our four ranges coming under one company - 'David J. Parkins' [MMP is just a range name]. In total we have approaching 700 products across the ranges, something like 500 etching photo tools in production and many hundreds of casting moulds.

MMP is less than 15% of our turnover but 80%+ of the hassle. In no other range do we get specific requests in any number to split kits or supply bits for kits purchased secondhand or simply to explain things. If I did not love railways there would be no MMP - we certainly don't need it to live comfortably!

Having said all that I will not let any one product subsidise another. I look at the costings for every single kit [or group of kits with things like the Mk.1 coaches] and they must all be viable within themselves or they simply do not get repeated as project types.

Hi David,

When I talked about subsidies, I was thinking (but not stating explicitly) about skills. You have 30 years experience in design and development, and with so much going on in the military side, this has had a bonus for railway modelling.

As an example, I have had a very limited exposure to etched part production, enough to appreciate what is involved. I don't doubt that I could do it, but I also know that it would take many years of regular artwork production to become good at it. Since railway modelling is roughly 1/6 of your output, then if you had not done anything else, we would be benfitting from 1/6 of your experience.

Quite an advantage!

 

[djparkins]

JLRT Class 08?

Since railway modelling is roughly 1/6 of your output, then if you had not done anything else, we would be benfitting from 1/6 of your experience.

Quite an advantage![/quote]


Simon -

Well whatever thats worth in nan increasingly befuddled old brain!

Moving even further off topic I like your reference to Rutland Weekend Television - Eric Idle. That was one of my favourite ever shows. I remember I was building a Metalmodels Siphon F for a customer when the RWT send up of Bob Harris & the Old Gay Whistle Test came on, with his interview with America's first 'All Dead' singer and his new album 'Even Further Beyond The Grave'! Great stuff. Too much laughter to continue modelling after that. 1976 IIRC. Great times.

Regards,

DJP

 

[Jordan]

JLRT Class 08?

i was sat having a bite to eat at Telford when i noticed a bloke ( not that old) sat at one of the tables next to me had a Loveless DELTIC box on his table Now unless it was an empty box he had just spent some serious money
So yes some people do buy their stuff.

Rob :wave:

Of course they do, or else Loveless would be out of business..
Mindyou, since one of our number enlightened me at Telford about how much he charged someone to build a loco for them, the total price of the kit and fee worked out pretty close to a Loveless RTR model, so for those who do have the readies, the comparitive prices aren't that different for almost 'bespoke' models. :scratch:
As for the chap being "not that old"... well having forked out so much, you'd want a bit of lifetime left to enjoy it... :lol: :lol:

 

[Purple-haze]

JLRT Class 08?

All of this is relative to what my mate said to me on Saturday.He has no real interest in model railways :shock: but thoroughly enjoys coming to shows.After he had watched from a distance the''meet'' at 1pm,he commented on the youthfulness of several of the group(you know who you are ) and said that this ties in with what he has observed in the 5 years he has attended shows. As us older generation diminishes so has a lot of tooling and aids, to be replaced by far more rtr and easy build kits. Is this because we are losing skills or have we more disposable income?
And will we notice a return to cheaper alternatives if (as we are being told) times is getting hard? :scratch:


regards


Rog

 

[Phill Dyson]

JLRT Class 08?

or have we more disposable income?

I don't think I qualify in that department :laugh:.........

And will we notice a return to cheaper alternatives if (as we are being told) times is getting hard? :scratch:

..............so I look forward to this one :scratch: ...........I'm not holding my breath though Rog :laugh:

Phill :wave:

 

[djparkins]

JLRT Class 08?

Hi Guys :wave:

Just to pick up another point. Whilst out of my league - until I get lucky/rich :lol: - the Loveless models probably offer very good 'value for money' just look at the quality of their prototype Deltic - wow If one could afford to buy one to run and one to display then they would, I am sure, in time become a so called 'investment purchase' (how much would one cost to make in the UK? ). Yet the price of the superb Golden Age (O Gauge) Pullman Cars seems steep to me, I know that the Koreans are masters of their craft - yet the price does seem, well, rich, if you see what I mean....... (once again no value judegements here), makes the Deltic look even better value

Thanks for listening

CME :wave:

Ah well this begs another question about 'Perceived Value'.

Why should a diesel loco, which is really a motorised coach with only a partial interior in terms of production costs, be worth so much more to someone than a coach or to really get to the point, why should the coach be that much less in price than the diesel? - especially if full interiors are in the coach as well. I bet the production costs of the Pullmans are not that much less than the Deltic.

Apart from ourselves, I cannot think of anyone [who does both], who does not charge more for their diesels than their coaches. I'm sure that is because they can get it.

Anyway, people model far too many locos. Remember the old series of articles in Model Railways back in the 1970s [great mag. - sorely missed] about 'Keeping the Balance'. IIRC it said that if you modelled the LMS in the 1920s then for every loco you would need 23 coaches and 700+ wagons. Plainly impractical but you get the idea!

Regards,

DJP

 

[Temeraire]

JLRT Class 08?

[quote=""Temeraire"":3uoe22md]I've built a few Connoisseur wagon kits which have gone together ok and currently have one of Jim's G5 kits on the go too for a different project. The G5 I am struggling with some aspects of and this is a simple kit. Of course I know it's me and my technique that is at fault. I'm just not sure I want to spend money of a MMP 08 and find myself stuck with no way of finishing it. Given the choice I'd have an MMP 08 over a JLTRT 08 anytime. Please don't misunderstand me I think the MMP kits offer excellent value for money for the level of detail, but if I can't build it......

This is my point, for some of us less skilled modellers out there, the JLTRT option while expensive is a way of getting a good looking, reasonably acurate model. I don't think that has any reflection on MMP kits, far from it. JLTRT kits are just a different approach that will suit different modellers. Yes, they could be cheaper, but they're not!

That said I'm very tempted to try an MMP Dog/Catfish kit.

What are you struggling with on the G5? I know nothing about LNER locos but I have built a lot of steam locos so you if you post a few pics we could probably help Simon has built a Catfish and I have a couple to do, so maybe if you got one we could help as you go along?

As far a kits go, i am a fickle customer, I love MMP detail but I dont always want to spend so long on a build! but then I build a JLTRT and I feel unsatisfied, so I am just plain difficult :laugh: :laugh:[/quote:3uoe22md]

Well as David pointed out earlier in the thread I haven't actually tried one of his kits so in an attempt to remedy this I've ordered a Dogfish to try. I then foolishly found Simon's online build of this and the Catfish......and promptly scared myself silly! This could get messy!

Cynric, thanks for the offer but the G5 is probably a little too rough to show pictures of here In general I just don't seem to get on with soldering very well. Laminating small parts to bigger parts seems to be very hit and miss. I usually end up spending hours trying to get a single piece fitted and cleaning off lumps of untidy solder afterwards.

 

[Simon Dunkley]

JLRT Class 08?

Well as David pointed out earlier in the thread I haven't actually tried one of his kits so in an attempt to remedy this I've ordered a Dogfish to try. I then foolishly found Simon's [Varnam] online build of this and the Catfish......and promptly scared myself silly! This could get messy!

I think it is a question of how you approach it. I was grateful to see how the bits went together, and then thought, "There are a lot of bits: this is not a quick kit to build. Good."

Cynric, thanks for the offer but the G5 is probably a little too rough to show pictures of here In general I just don't seem to get on with soldering very well. Laminating small parts to bigger parts seems to be very hit and miss. I usually end up spending hours trying to get a single piece fitted and cleaning off lumps of untidy solder afterwards.

Right, you will probably benefit from tinning first, and then sweating with nothing more than some flux between the tinned surfaces.
Getting solder onto small pieces is relatively easy - you can either hold them down onto a piece of wood with a cocktail stick, or better still, tin them whilst they are on the fret. The secret to a clean job is to wipe most of the solder off once it is on there: I find the Scotchbrite fine for this, but you could use kitchen roll if you wish.

Sequence is:
0) Put the soldering iron on, making sure that the bit is clean, and let it come to full working temperature;
1) Rub the surfaces clean with Scotchbrite or Garryflex, or whatever you prefer to use;
2) Put a blob of flux on the pieces, however they are held;
3) tricky bit coming up: put a blob of solder on the piece (you don't need much) and then quickly wipe it off whilst it is still molten. This is where it is useful to have the piece still on the fret!
(People who have watched me do this are frightened to see me holding the soldering iron and also some Scotchbrite in my hand as I wipe with solder and then SB. Not necessarily recommended.
4) Put the pieces together, held with clamp or cocktail stick, apply flux to side, bring iron to side having first wiped it on the sponge. Let it sizzle, take away iron and hold in place with clamp/stick whilst you count slowly to ten. It should have set by then.
Clean up - shouldn't be too much to do.

Have a practice with some scraps: they key is to use some from of mechanical (abrasive) cleaner, a hot enough and powerful enough iron, and less solder than you probably think is needed.

 

[28ten]

JLRT Class 08?

Well as David pointed out earlier in the thread I haven't actually tried one of his kits so in an attempt to remedy this I've ordered a Dogfish to try. I then foolishly found Simon's online build of this and the Catfish......and promptly scared myself silly! This could get messy!

Cynric, thanks for the offer but the G5 is probably a little too rough to show pictures of here In general I just don't seem to get on with soldering very well. Laminating small parts to bigger parts seems to be very hit and miss. I usually end up spending hours trying to get a single piece fitted and cleaning off lumps of untidy solder afterwards.

Game on!!
Firstly there is no such thing as too rough to show pictures here!
Secondly how about choosing a Connoisseur wagon kit and I will get the same kit and build it the same time? we might even get some other members to have a go ....
I'll be honest, soldering is a question of the right tools and above all else practice.

 

[Rob Pulham]

JLRT Class 08?

[quote=""Temeraire"":2bf7f5v9]
we might even get some other members to have a go ....
.

[/quote:2bf7f5v9]

I am up for it but it will have to wait until I get back from my hols.

 

[Rob Pulham]

JLRT Class 08?

David, will you post a note on here when your new wagon kits are available please ?

 

[djparkins]

JLRT Class 08?

David, will you post a note on here when your new wagon kits are available please ?

Rob -

I should think I could manage to do that!!! Providing of course that 28ten will not see it as blatant advertising!

On a similar note - if any of you were needing any of our BR Wagon Fittings Packs, be advised that we have only 20 left now and then there will be no more, as the photo tool from which these were an offshoot is changing.

Regards,

DJP,
MMP

 

[28ten]

JLRT Class 08?

[quote=""Rob Pulham"":gh98klyl]David, will you post a note on here when your new wagon kits are available please ?

Rob -

I should think I could manage to do that!!! Providing of course that 28ten will not see it as blatant advertising!

On a similar note - if any of you were needing any of our BR Wagon Fittings Packs, be advised that we have only 20 left now and then there will be no more, as the photo tool from which these were an offshoot is changing.

Regards,

DJP,
MMP[/quote:gh98klyl]
Of course not :laugh: no problem at all

 

[Jordan]

Heljan to do a Class 31...?

On Tower Model's website there's a tantalising snippet of info at the end of the 'Heljan' subheading in the 7th Sept News Report.

The Class 31 appears to be the next on the list for Heljan to produce but it is way too early to give any details on price, delivery or versions.

I for one would find that very tempting, assuming it's a blue 'un with headcode boxes...
"too early for details on price" makes me laugh, though... what's the betting it turns out to be just the same price as all the other diesels in the range...?!? :lol: :lol: :lol:

 

[Ressaldar]

Heljan to do a Class 31...?

always said that Dave Brewer was more than a comedian

regards

Mike

 

[Ressaldar]

JLRT Class 08?

David, will you post a note on here when your new wagon kits are available please ?

Hi David

can you include the locos as well please?

regards

Mike

 

[Phill Dyson]

Heljan to do a Class 31...?

Could be useful. I would rather have a Western , Warship or 22 though :scratch:

Phill :wave:

 

[djparkins]

JLRT Class 08?

[quote=""Rob Pulham"":3u5e4j59]David, will you post a note on here when your new wagon kits are available please ?

Hi David

can you include the locos as well please?

regards

Mike[/quote:3u5e4j59]

Mike -

Wilco!

DJP