Heather Kay
Western Thunderer
Well, the drawing I'm working from is dated 1947. A bit late for the original build of these Colletts, but potentially within a refurbishment window.
7mm On Heather's Workbench - three is a magic number
- Thread starter Heather Kay
- Start date
Well, the drawing I'm working from is dated 1947. A bit late for the original build of these Colletts, but potentially within a refurbishment window.
richard carr
Western Thunderer
Heather
I love the guards compartment, I just hope you can see it all when its finished.
You should sell some of these builds to model magazines.
Richard
I love the guards compartment, I just hope you can see it all when its finished.
You should sell some of these builds to model magazines.
Richard
john lewsey
Western Thunderer
The Guv would have been very impressed
john lewsey
Western Thunderer
Your work is superb Heather it really is ill have a good look on Saturday when I pick you up for The exhibition
Heather Kay
Western Thunderer
I could indeed bring a build or two with me to Railex. I may be well on with the next to coaches' underframes by then.
The D94 interior has now been painted. According to my references, the finish would be a varnished light oak for most of the woodwork. If my reading is correct - based on a works drawing from 1947, which ought to be okay for a potentially refurbished 1920s coach as it may have appeared in the middle-1950s - the passenger compartment window and door frames should be picked out in a darker colour. For now, it's just a light oak, lightly scumbled to represent the veneer grain, and given a coat of satin varnish. As I've said before, the Colletts of this period had quite small windows, compounded by the compartments having their own doors as well, so just how much will be visible is moot.
Anyway, I've pretty much completed the guard's compartment now.
The lino effect for the floor needs some more treatment. As ever, the matt varnish has ended up satin, and it doesn't look right.
As to how much would be visible from outside, I fitted the sides temporarily. Okay, with the roof on, it'll be gloomy in there, but you will see stuff. On the compartment side, the guard had a window and door, while on the corridor side he had a door and two companion windows.
From the corridor side, part one.
From the corridor side, part two.
The hand brake, by the way, isn't fixed at the moment, which explains the various angles it appears at. The one in the kit is the JLTRT BR standard, with a wheel, so I fabricated a quick bit of bent wire to represent the correct GWR pattern. It's also a little too close to the compartment wall, so it's going to have to be moved.
Through the guard's door, part one.
Through the guard's door, part two.
Worth that extra mile, I reckon.
The D94 interior has now been painted. According to my references, the finish would be a varnished light oak for most of the woodwork. If my reading is correct - based on a works drawing from 1947, which ought to be okay for a potentially refurbished 1920s coach as it may have appeared in the middle-1950s - the passenger compartment window and door frames should be picked out in a darker colour. For now, it's just a light oak, lightly scumbled to represent the veneer grain, and given a coat of satin varnish. As I've said before, the Colletts of this period had quite small windows, compounded by the compartments having their own doors as well, so just how much will be visible is moot.
Anyway, I've pretty much completed the guard's compartment now.
The lino effect for the floor needs some more treatment. As ever, the matt varnish has ended up satin, and it doesn't look right.
As to how much would be visible from outside, I fitted the sides temporarily. Okay, with the roof on, it'll be gloomy in there, but you will see stuff. On the compartment side, the guard had a window and door, while on the corridor side he had a door and two companion windows.
From the corridor side, part one.
From the corridor side, part two.
The hand brake, by the way, isn't fixed at the moment, which explains the various angles it appears at. The one in the kit is the JLTRT BR standard, with a wheel, so I fabricated a quick bit of bent wire to represent the correct GWR pattern. It's also a little too close to the compartment wall, so it's going to have to be moved.
Through the guard's door, part one.
Through the guard's door, part two.
Worth that extra mile, I reckon.
john lewsey
Western Thunderer
Heather it just gets better and better brilliant lovely work
Heather Kay
Western Thunderer
Eastsidepilot
Western Thunderer
Rob Pulham
Western Thunderer
Heather Kay
Western Thunderer
Thanks for the thumbs and likes, chaps. I feel humbled.
I sent some images to the client yesterday, as part of the regular updates on the build's progress. I got this reply:
I think he likes it.
I sent some images to the client yesterday, as part of the regular updates on the build's progress. I got this reply:
I think he likes it.
john lewsey
Western Thunderer
I've just been to look at these coaches very. Very nice
Heather Kay
Western Thunderer
You know, lighting ought to be considered. I can see working cells, charged from a miniature dynamo, lighting dim LEDs in the compartments... I'm sure it's all quite feasible for clients with bottomless chequebooks. 
I've started work on the two other coaches in this build - the C54 corridor third and E127 corridor composite - which I plan to build in tandem, or parallel, or in series. No, tandem would be correct for two, I think. I started with the roofs, only to discover the toilet tank filler etches aren't in either of the boxes. Seriously, it would quicker for me to trek up to Irvine and pack the boxes myself.
This evening shall be spent marking out the capping strips and grab rail locations. Tomorrow, if I haven't fitted the strips and handrails tonight, thoughts will turn to the underframes. Hopefully, they'll go together pretty quickly now I know where everything is supposed to go. I'm actually dreading the buffers, though. They took ages to fettle to a nice sliding fit on the D94.
Incidentally, these two kits do include the access steps for the ends on the etches. They're not diamond treaded, of course, just flat brass. Shall I procure another pair of CPL etches? Hmm, I think not. We will go over budget if we're not careful.
I've started work on the two other coaches in this build - the C54 corridor third and E127 corridor composite - which I plan to build in tandem, or parallel, or in series. No, tandem would be correct for two, I think. I started with the roofs, only to discover the toilet tank filler etches aren't in either of the boxes. Seriously, it would quicker for me to trek up to Irvine and pack the boxes myself.
This evening shall be spent marking out the capping strips and grab rail locations. Tomorrow, if I haven't fitted the strips and handrails tonight, thoughts will turn to the underframes. Hopefully, they'll go together pretty quickly now I know where everything is supposed to go. I'm actually dreading the buffers, though. They took ages to fettle to a nice sliding fit on the D94.
Incidentally, these two kits do include the access steps for the ends on the etches. They're not diamond treaded, of course, just flat brass. Shall I procure another pair of CPL etches? Hmm, I think not. We will go over budget if we're not careful.
Dog Star
Western Thunderer
I shall be interested in just how much money has to be spent after having bought the JLTRT kit. I ask because I was surprised when looking at the extras to complete a JLTRT diesel kit (ok, that extra spend is influenced to some extent by personal whims... ).
Steph Dale
Western Thunderer
Recognizing there's a good sized rabbit hole to dive down here, but isn't that the case with all kits Graham?
It's also, in my opinion what makes the difference between being a kit builder (who builds a kit) and a modelmaker (who makes a model and may use a kit as a starting point).
Mind you, in JLTRT's case we've also got to wonder whether they actually packed everything the kit should have in the box....
Steph
Heather Kay
Western Thunderer
I can list the extras right now.
- Wheels
- Passengers (customer's preference)
- Glazing material (customer's preference)
- Extra wire (because the foot of nickel wire they provide isn't enough)
- Brass strip (for dynamo belt)
- Styrene strip to detail the roofs properly
- Copper wire (various thicknesses) for detailing
- Sundry detailing parts (passcomm gear, brake rigging, droplights, something to recreate the gangway suspension units which aren't even in the kit - eh?) and items like springs (couplings and/or buffers) and washers for bogie spacing
- Solder and flux
- Glues, various
- Primers, paints and varnishes, various
- Transfers
Heather Kay
Western Thunderer
Here we go again. If there's one thing I really ought to have learned about this particular manufacturer is never take anything on trust. 
As I have recounted elsewhere, these Collett kits have a generic roof moulding, with a suitable paper template supplied for marking out the ventilators and capping strips. Guess who didn't check the sources before blithely drilling a lot of holes?
Let's see what the issues are this time. First up, the C54.
You can see the template has a series of ventilators marked up dead centre over each compartment. You can also see I've drilled the ventilator holes from the template (marked with a black dot for clarity). Comparing this with the photograph ex-works of No 5013 (Figure 85 on page 34 of Great Western Coaches Appendix Volume 1, Russell), it's pretty obvious the real thing was different. For a start, there should be a vent over each toilet compartment (which I have marked up), and comparing the vent locations against the capping strips shows them offset and not dead centre over each compartment. It seems they should be offset towards the right of each compartment.
Okay, so I have to fill a load of holes and mark them out again. Who decided where these things were supposed to go at JLTRT Towers, I wonder?
Let's try the E127.
This time we do have the toilet vents, but we also appear to have two vents per compartment. Back with Russell again, and on page 139, figures 352, 353 and 354 show quite clearly one vent per compartment, again offset to the right of the compartment. I've marked them up with a black spot, but you can also see the holes I drilled erroneously which have since been filled.
I'm going with the photos. Whoever drew up the templates presumably used a works drawing, and we know how reliable they can be. One wonders how many of these kits get built without anyone checking such things for truth and accuracy.
I will say, though, the locations for the capping strips seems about right on both these coaches. They were a bit off on the D94.
As I have recounted elsewhere, these Collett kits have a generic roof moulding, with a suitable paper template supplied for marking out the ventilators and capping strips. Guess who didn't check the sources before blithely drilling a lot of holes?
Let's see what the issues are this time. First up, the C54.
You can see the template has a series of ventilators marked up dead centre over each compartment. You can also see I've drilled the ventilator holes from the template (marked with a black dot for clarity). Comparing this with the photograph ex-works of No 5013 (Figure 85 on page 34 of Great Western Coaches Appendix Volume 1, Russell), it's pretty obvious the real thing was different. For a start, there should be a vent over each toilet compartment (which I have marked up), and comparing the vent locations against the capping strips shows them offset and not dead centre over each compartment. It seems they should be offset towards the right of each compartment.
Okay, so I have to fill a load of holes and mark them out again. Who decided where these things were supposed to go at JLTRT Towers, I wonder?
Let's try the E127.
This time we do have the toilet vents, but we also appear to have two vents per compartment. Back with Russell again, and on page 139, figures 352, 353 and 354 show quite clearly one vent per compartment, again offset to the right of the compartment. I've marked them up with a black spot, but you can also see the holes I drilled erroneously which have since been filled.
I'm going with the photos. Whoever drew up the templates presumably used a works drawing, and we know how reliable they can be. One wonders how many of these kits get built without anyone checking such things for truth and accuracy.
I will say, though, the locations for the capping strips seems about right on both these coaches. They were a bit off on the D94.
Steph Dale
Western Thunderer
My dad has a saying learnt the hard way: "Assumption is the mother of all c*%k-ups". The sorts of errors in the templates that you're describing fall well into that category; they've been drawn up on assumptions based around knowledge that most carriages do seem to have their vents laid out in this fashion.
The reliability of works drawings is, I guess, another issue. You're right about them illustrating the intent rather than the facts of their construction. I still tend to feel much more comfortable when building models if I've got a set of GAs somewhere near the workbench.
Anyway, I'm enjoying the thread and it's giving me a little food for thought as I fancy a go at the JLTRT GWR Dynamometer Car at some point. I'm not sure how much courage I have though...*
Steph
* In some ways a loopy sentiment; I've got a short stack of Ace kits here, yet because I'm familiar with their prototypes I'm comfortable with the relative levels of 'delight' contained in those boxes. Yet the JLTRT stuff always fills me with dread as I'm never quite sure what to expect. Certainly more likely to expect NQLTRT rather than JLTRT, if you see what I mean?
Heather Kay
Western Thunderer
Steph, I don't know where the vent layout information came from, but it doesn't match any of the prototype photos. Therefore, I've had to work on visual information and educated guesswork to place the vents in a more accurate position.
Working on the basis the E127 offset vents are about right, I measured the centre from the capping strip. It came to a scale 1ft 3in. (I use a 7mm scale rule so I tend to work in "real world" measures like this for most things.) Knowing the vents on compartment stock were offset from the longitudinal centreline by 12-1/2in, it was a matter of marking off the new locations.
The centre roof is the C54 with the revised vent locations. At least these will be consistent with the E127, so I work on the basis that if they're wrong, they're both consistently wrong. At least, not as wrong as they would have been without reference to a photo or three!
Here's all three roofs. From the top, E127 corridor composite (the longer roof panels are the first class compartments), C54 corridor third (with one more compartment than the compo), and the D94 brake third. Two roofs are awaiting a delivery of tank filler etches from JLTRT, but I have drilled out the grab rail holes.
For the record, and from information kindly supplied by John Lewis, the grab rails are positioned with this information:
I just need to bend up the grab rails and fit them, then apart from the missing panels the roofs are complete and ready for a coat of paint or three.
I guess it's on to underframes next. I'll try to document how the alternative bogie centre block system works this time.
Working on the basis the E127 offset vents are about right, I measured the centre from the capping strip. It came to a scale 1ft 3in. (I use a 7mm scale rule so I tend to work in "real world" measures like this for most things.) Knowing the vents on compartment stock were offset from the longitudinal centreline by 12-1/2in, it was a matter of marking off the new locations.
The centre roof is the C54 with the revised vent locations. At least these will be consistent with the E127, so I work on the basis that if they're wrong, they're both consistently wrong. At least, not as wrong as they would have been without reference to a photo or three!
Here's all three roofs. From the top, E127 corridor composite (the longer roof panels are the first class compartments), C54 corridor third (with one more compartment than the compo), and the D94 brake third. Two roofs are awaiting a delivery of tank filler etches from JLTRT, but I have drilled out the grab rail holes.
For the record, and from information kindly supplied by John Lewis, the grab rails are positioned with this information:
- all rails are fitted from capping strip to capping strip
- all rails are 1ft 9in either side of the longitudinal centreline, or 3ft 6in apart
- the correct locations are checked against photos where the rails are visible
I just need to bend up the grab rails and fit them, then apart from the missing panels the roofs are complete and ready for a coat of paint or three.
I guess it's on to underframes next. I'll try to document how the alternative bogie centre block system works this time.
Heather Kay
Western Thunderer
I've just realised, based on the foregoing, the D94 roof has too many vents. From what I can make out from the photos, it ought to have some vents over the van section as well.
UPDATE: Actually, after intensive study of the one good photo I can find, I think what look like ventilators over the van section are another coach behind the subject. Most of the evidence points to this diagram (and the D95) not having vents for the guard's compartment or van section.
So, I have removed the offending extra ventilators over the passenger compartments, and made good. Now, back to the grab rails and then underframes.
UPDATE: Actually, after intensive study of the one good photo I can find, I think what look like ventilators over the van section are another coach behind the subject. Most of the evidence points to this diagram (and the D95) not having vents for the guard's compartment or van section.
So, I have removed the offending extra ventilators over the passenger compartments, and made good. Now, back to the grab rails and then underframes.