7mm On Heather's Workbench - three is a magic number

[Heather Kay]

I'm pleased my thoughts on the ventilator patterns on these early Collett coaches has caused so much interest!

Today, after yesterday's jaunt to Railex, I've got back to the nitty-gritty of the underframes. I began to work on one of the dynamos, carefully drilling out the holes to freely hang it from the bracket as is my wont, when the worst happened. The whitemetal parted...





The obvious thing would be to bung the 0.7mm wire in and glue it all up solid. However, at this stage, I don't know the angle of the dangle, which is why I like to have it hinged in the first place. What to do, apart from put my head in my hands and sob?

Well, not having a well-stocked spares bin of JLTRT castings - yet - I gave it some thought. I could make a replacement bracket. A quick measure up, and almost literally a back-of-the-envelope sketch followed.



I found some suitable scrap etch, just about perfect for the job. The remains of the cast bracket were filed from the dynamo.



This was then carefully drilled through with a 0.5mm bit. On the squiff, as usual.



Then, on to the bracket itself. After some careful - for me - marking out, a bit of filing and drilling and application of the hotting stick, the result was quite acceptable.



And here it all is, assembled.



I always seem to end up with carefully marked out and drilled holes "on the squiff". Still, it does the job.

Now, where was I before that diversion? Ah, yes, underframes. Time to bend some etches and get the trusses sorted out, then to do the whole thing again for the other underframe. What have you planned for your bank holiday weekend?

 

[Heather Kay]

Right, pay attention class. Today we are going to learn about fitting bogie pivots for Collett coach kits the JLTRT way.

As may have become apparent, JLTRT use several generic components in the Collett kits. The roof and floor, for example, are common across the range of bow-ended and flat-ended coaches. To make matters slightly more complex, Mr Collett felt it necessary to mount bogies are slightly different centres on a couple of designs - and this is catered for in these kits.

To quote from the 'structions:

Our underframes for this rolling stock provide the option of three different bogie centres depending on which coach you are modelling.

This is achieved by using a rectangular metal insert which has two M4 tapped holes, one of the holes is offset a scale 3 inches the other is central to the axis of the insert, once you have identified the pitch of the bogie centres for the coach you are modelling arrange the metal insets looking in plan view in the correct orientation, it will be seen that the centrally located tapped hole can only be used for one variation (D98) whereas the offset hole can be used for two variations providing you "flip" the insert over.

All clear? Thought not - even allowing for the appalling writing.

Anyway, just for the sake of completeness, the bogie centres we need for the 57ft bow-ended stock is 43ft 6in (or 304.5mm in scale money). Apparently, this is where the holes are at their most outboard location.

I've learned not to trust instructions, so I prepared a strip of paper with the required dimension marked off. But first, here's the metal block with cast threads.



When I constructed the D94 brake third, I was dubious of the mechanical qualities of a cast whitemetal thread, especially as the steel bogie pivot bolt is screwed in and out umpteen times during construction. I have to be honest, being dubious, I've been careful not to over-tighten or cross-thread the bolts, and so far - fingers crossed - the thread has stood up to my ham-fistedness.

Before we get to sort out which holes and which flippyness to use...



The one on the left is in the D94 floor. The one on the right is the same size, and came from the C54 kit. The one in the middle came from the E127 kit. It's the wrong block. I got a pair of incorrect blocks. I didn't even know they made different blocks! I wonder what else I will find wrong or missing before I finish this build!

Could I file it to the right size? Probably, but how much, from where? And will the tapped holes even be right then? Ack. One more thing that needs to be sorted out by telephonic communication to Irvine on Tuesday.

Okay, sorting out the flippyness. Let's see if the blocks work this way up.



Nope. They're a bit short. It does look like the other holes are right, though.



Yes, they are the correct centres. I guess we need to flip them over, then.



Nice. Now I've found out the orientation and correct holes, I mark them.



The arrow denotes the "outboard" position (to the end of the coach), and the star is obvious.

A quick pass with a large fine file to take off any mould lines - but not enough to markedly change the dimensions of the blocks - and they fit snugly into the moulded recesses in the floor. If they don't quite fit, a small amount of persuasion is required. I don't use glue, since the bogie bolts will draw the blocks into the recesses and hold things in place anyway.



And there we have it. Bogie retaining blocks fitted. The other floor will have to await the replacements.

 

[Heather Kay]

The weekend went by in a blur. I did manage some modelling during Sunday and the bank holiday. Most of the E127 underframe has now had patent grot applied all over it, and I'm well into the C54 underframe today.

I did realise I sort of glossed over the underframe construction when I was working on the D94. Probably that diversion into whether there were two or four truss rods, and whether the brake vees were above or below (or vice versa, dependant on orientation of the underframe at the time) the trusses.

So, by recompense, and because I now know how these things fit together without any head-scratching, here is how I make up the vacuum cylinder and brake cross rod assembly.

For reasons best known to themselves, the etched underframe parts for the E127 and C54 (the same etch, I should add) have the fold lines for the cylinder assembly on the "wrong" side. Conventionally, half-etch fold lines are inside the fold, but when you check the part against the underframe, you realise you must fold them inside out.



Here we see both vee assemblies, after the little washer parts have been soldered up. You'll notice I have joggled the cylinder mounting brackets. From experience, this has to be done since the cylinder casting is a tight fit that forces the brackets apart. I can't verify if the real thing had this feature, but I know it was done on some BR Mk1 builds. Interestingly, this etch design includes a joggle on the outer vee bracket to allow it to sit on the solebar. You'll see what I mean later.



I spend a fair amount of time cleaning up the rubbish cylinder casting. I open up the centre "plunger" to take a short length of wire through the actuating lever. Copper wire is used because it's easier to bend with less chance of breaking the fragile whitemetal. You can see I have opened a hole for the direct admission valve pipework to fit into (on the right). Experience now tells me it's quicker to remove the cast trunnions and drill out for 1mm diameter brass wire replacements.

The cross rod casting is usually a little bent out of shape. Careful adjustment to get it more or less straight and true is worth the time spent. The brass used is a little softer than I'd like, and it's quite easy to bend it while handling.



Two sets of parts ready to assemble. The lower one is ready for the trunnion pins to go in.



I still haven't fitted the pins here, but you can see why I found I had to joggle the cylinder brackets. Bear in mind some extra filing of the floor is required to accommodate these subtleties. You can also see the joggled outer vee hanger here. This is useful as it provides the datum when fitting the assembly into the chasm carved in the floor!

Finally, here's a shot of the DA valve assemblies.



I've soldered the flexible pipes into the DA casting. I drilled the holes out with a 0.7mm diameter drill to a fair depth. The main pipe will later be bent in various directions to fit over an underframe beam and along the floor.

Tomorrow will see the truss section made up, and the various sub-assemblies (dynamo, battery boxes, vac cylinders) fitted to the floor. I will try and remember to explain how I make a representation of the brake pull-rod from the brake cross rod.

 

[Heather Kay]

I forgot I'd booked a walk across the North Kent Marshes for yesterday. I had a superb day, made some new friends, and even managed to nab a couple of photos - http://www.flickr.com/photos/snaptophobic/sets/72157633788707692/ - while we squelched our way along muddy footpaths. I always say you've been on a good walk if you bring most of it back with you!

Today I have been building the C54 underframe truss, fitting the brake cylinder assemblies and sundry other bits and bobs.

First, fitting the vacuum cylinder sub-assembly. As you know, large holes have to be carved in the floor to accommodate them. Some fettling of said holes must be done to allow for the joggled trunnions (ouch!).



A slight filing of the floor is needed to allow for the bulbous side of the vac cylinder, and further slots filed to allow the joggled trunnions (ouch, again!) to fit neatly. Care needs to be exercised that you don't file too far, or you begin to remove the sole bar itself.



The joggled vee hanger lets it rest on the footboard. Now the sub-assembly just needs settling into the hole to ensure it's as straight and square as possible.



This is the view from above decks. You can see the brass baseplate is pretty level in relation to the floor.



With the joggled vee sitting neatly on the footboard, the top of the baseplate is just proud of the solebar. The may be a small amount of filing required on the bottom of the body side moulding to get a neat fit. I'll find out later. When happy with what is actually a nice interference fit, I dribbled a bit of cyano into the gaps.

On to representations of the brake pull rods. There are no clevis rod ends in the kit, so I bought some of CPL's etched parts. Rather annoyingly, there's no simple fold-up part, so I need to make the forked rod ends by bashing, fettling and soldering. From the detailing fret I need four of the flat plates, with the punched adjustment holes and what looks like a claw at the end.





Before removing the parts from the fret, I drilled through a random hole (and a matching one in the other plate) for the wire to slip through as it's attached to the pull rod lever. A 0.7mm bit suffices for this. Next, I bent up the "claw" end at right angles, and then clipped it short to leave a short length of the U to take the actual pull rod wire.



Next, I tinned both parts, and then soldered the tinned end of a length of 0.7mm brass wire into one of them. I didn't worry about some of the holes getting filled in, as this is lost in the murk under the coach. Most of the holes will be clear in the end, allowing a little daylight through for effect.

Now the tricky bit.



Using a trusty bit of softwood, I carved out slots to take the clevis plates and the wire. It sometimes takes a couple of goes, but eventually applying some Red Label flux and a dab with the soldering iron makes a reasonable joint. And now, repeat for the second one.



After a bit of straightening and cleaning up, and applying some chemical blackening. I've made better before, but these will suffice.



Once again, I use copper wire to fit the bracket to the pull rod. I bend one end to a right angle, then pass it through the clevis and pull bracket. Then it's a case of bending the other side down and trimming the ends.



Many railway companies passed the brake pull rods towards the top of the bogie. On these Collett coaches, which run on the 7ft wheelbase plate bogies, the pull rods head down below the axles. To support the pull rod, a spring was used on the real thing. To imitate this I use a length of 0.7mm wire which fits into a hole in the floor drilled at an angle. To represent the spring, fine copper wire is wound along its length. One end is bent to a shallow angle, filed flat and tinned where it will meet the pull rod.

This is the best method I've come up with for now. The "spring" helps support the pull rod in model form, but the attachment isn't really like the real thing. If more Colletts come my way, I will consider how this feature can be better replicated in an easy-to-make form. As I type, my brain shouted "etch!", and a two-dimensional spring representation may well be the answer. I'd just need industrial quantities of Collett coaches to make it economical!



Finally, for this session, I bent up the DA valve main pipes to allow them to fit snugly on the chassis members. The flexible pipes are carefully adjusted to find the hole in the cylinder, and a spot of cyano holds it all together. The truss assembly can now be fitted, and the whole lot covered in dirty black paint.

I think I shall treat myself to a day of bogie construction on Friday. Have I ever told you how much I hate building bogies?

 

[Heather Kay]

I keep putting off those bogies. Yesterday was spent on buffer beams. Fettling the cast brass buffer heads to a nice smooth sliding fit is painful on the fingers and time consuming at best. I still have the drawgear to do, as well - four sets of cast screwlinks to fettle and assemble. Oh, joy.

I can't keep putting off the bogies much longer. I shall aim for rolling chassis by the end of the weekend, I think. Then I can start on the interiors and bodywork. Perhaps even get some paint on things next week!

 

[Ressaldar]

Hi Heather,

I'm enjoying things so far, but take your time, there is no rush as I shall not be back into the workshop to start the inspection saloon for at least another week or so to give the shingles plenty of time to clear - then I can follow/crib your build without any distractions.

cheers Mike

 

[Heather Kay]

Here's a wider view of the workbench as it is today.

Three Collett underframes, very nearly complete.



You can see the eight buffer sets lurking towards the back, which will be fitted at some point today. The hold'n'fold beyond the "test track" has seen some work with this build. Incidentally, this is quite tidy for my workbench. I've tried to be more disciplined about putting tools back in the toolbox when I switch between tasks.



Three boxes. They're handy to keep things in, I find. From the left, the D94 brake third, waiting patiently for the other two to catch up, C54 and E127. You can see the roofs are complete now, just needing an squirt of primer and tidying up. Bottom right are the two plastic trays of various castings and bits for the C54 and E127. The D94 box is higher because it's resting on two loco kits that are waiting in the wings. More on those another day, I think.

 

[Heather Kay]

I keep thinking there must be an easier way to do this, but I've spent the past few hours making two pairs of screw couplings. Still, they're done now. I can get the drawgear and buffers done this evening.

Which I suppose means I have to face those bogies tomorrow. *sigh*

 

[Heather Kay]

Here we go. I couldn't put it off any longer. I'd done the household chores, pumped up my car's tyres, sorted out the washing... I'd run out of displacement activity!

Two pairs of 7ft plate bogies are now under construction. It's not that I mind making the things, it's the sheer unadulterated tedium of cleaning the castings up before I start. After two hours of cleaning up the worst of the flash - which to be fair isn't as bad as the BR B4 bogie kits from JLTRT - all I have is a pile of bits and I'm knee deep in whitemetal swarf and filings. For a spot of light relief I'm cleaning up and chemically blackening the wheelsets.

I seriously doubt I'll have one bogie constructed by the close of play today. The rate things are going, it'll probably be the middle of the week before anything can sit comfortably on wheels. Don't worry if I go quiet for a lengthy spell. I shall just be upping my lead content.

 

[Ressaldar]

[quote="Heather Kay, post: 70789, member: 541Don't worry if I go quiet for a lengthy spell. I shall just be upping my lead content. [/quote]

that will keep you firmly in place then looking forward to seeing them up and running - shortly.

cheers

Mike

 

[Heather Kay]

A brief update, and a sidelight on life at chez Kay.

I was merrily working on building bogies. Having been out to do the weekly shop, it was noted a faint whiff of petrol fumes were coming from my little car. Come Monday I called my tame mechanic and he said to pop over and he'd have a look to see what might be amiss.

As such things happen, he'd been visited by a swarm of honey bees, who'd settled on his front gate post. While he was under my car, a beekeeper arrived to take the bees to a new home. It took a while to get most of the creatures from the gatepost to a cardboard box.



Here's the keeper gently persuading the last few bees to leave their temporary home.

All of which took longer than I'd anticipated, so I only actually managed to complete and paint one pair of the bogies.

(Incidentally, the "amiss" part was corrosion around the seam on the fuel tank. A new tank was quoted at something in the region of a Heljan diesel . I went to the owners' club web site - yes, even baby Fiats have an owners' club - and asked the question: a brand new tank was sourced from the Bay of Fleas for just a shade under fifty of your English pounds. Bit of a win, I think.)



Which leaves...



Remind me again why I don't like building bogies? There are fewer than 20 parts to each bogie, but it takes for bleedin' ever to put them together! It's actually the cleaning up and fettling for fit that takes so long. If I didn't really care about mould lines and flash, the things would be build in double-quick time. But I do care, so they take a while.

Having bored myself rigid building a pair of the things, and not having the stomach to start the next pair, I remembered I had one final detail to add to each underframe - the steam heat dribble valves and pipework.



You can make them out, running just above the battery boxes on the C54 and E127 underframes. The D94 is safely back in its box for now.

Today, I shall be out photographing more heathers at Wisley Gardens. If my back doesn't give me too much aggro, that is.

 

[Ressaldar]

it is as well that you are not building a B-set

cheers

Mike

 

[dibateg]

Ah - looks like you made progress on the bogies Heather. I quite enjoyed the JLTRT LNER bogies that is used for my Gresley non-corridors, I thought they went together very well, but I onmly had 4 to make. The castings were tidy and did not need to much fettling. The Sidelines equivelants are nice but a lot more fiddly - although they do include brakes...

Regards

Tony

 

[Ressaldar]

Hi Heather,

I've been re-reading this thread as part of the shingles recovery programme and also in preparation of starting the H33 conversion, and was brought up sharp regarding the V hangers - as there is a Paul Bartlett photo

http://paulbartlett.zenfolio.com/inspectionsaloon/h1b2f49dc#h1b2f49dc

that shows the bottom of the V below the truss angle. Perhaps this was the norm for the H33? On the face of it, I sould be saved all of the carving that you have had to carry out. The even bigger question as far as I am concerned is, how many trusses under the floor, 2 or 4? I'll have to do some more research.

On another tack, I have just fought my way through a dry run on the JLTRT whitemetal bogies and seem to be short of all of the keeper plates, where they included in your kits?

cheers

Mike

 

[Heather Kay]

Perhaps this was the norm for the H33? On the face of it, I sould be saved all of the carving that you have had to carry out. The even bigger question as far as I am concerned is, how many trusses under the floor, 2 or 4? I'll have to do some more research.

It does seem to vary from diagram to diagram. All I can say is the vee stops above the truss on the three diagrams I'm building, according to all the photos I've studied and conversations I've had with Graham B.

Likewise, from the various photos and conversations, there are only two trusses. Graham also did a bit of book diving and came up with a reasonable pattern of two and four truss underframes. Here's a link to his post on the subject in this thread:

How many trusses make an underframe?

On another tack, I have just fought my way through a dry run on the JLTRT whitemetal bogies and seem to be short of all of the keeper plates, where they included in your kits?

They seem to be one of those small parts that occasionally slip through the packer's fingers. I swear they wear boxing gloves sometimes. Let's just say I had enough (out of three pairs of bogies) to fit one pair. I suggest a call to Laurie at JLTRT and ask for them. He sent me enough spares that I can break a couple and not worry.

I'm not sure what their official description is, but there are supposed to be curved mudguard-like guards that sit on the diagonal members above the axles. I've not got enough for all the bogies, and those I fitted to the D94 bogies are all over the shop, so I have decided to pretend they don't exist. A lot of fiddle to no good purpose, especially as we're lacking any brake gear at all.

I'm well on with the final bogie pair. It does take about a day to complete a pair. A couple of hours are spent cleaning things up (these castings are not at all bad, considering their provenance, but not a patch on the likes of ABS). Soldering the main castings together takes less than an hour, and then it takes a while to fettle the axleboxes to fit the hornguides with an easy slide for the "suspension" to work. I am about to paint the frames before they reach the stage where I can't get the brush into the awkward bits, then set about the axleboxes and tie rods.

Goodness me! I might even be able to start on the interiors tomorrow!

 

[Ressaldar]

Hi Heather,

many thanks for the prompt response. I'll delve into Graham's link later on this afternoon, I had yet another sleepless night last night with the shingles pain etc so I feel that an authorised 40 winks might be in order I'll certainly need a clear head to get round the truss scenario.

Looking forward to seeing your further updates and hope that I may be following suit in the next few weeks with some progress from here on the Wirral. Hope that the weather is fine in North Kent today - it is very pleasant here.

cheers

Mike

 

[Dog Star]

I'm not sure what their official description is, but there are supposed to be curved mudguard-like guards that sit on the diagonal members above the axles. ...

I have no idea of the official name for these parts which, from your description, I believe to be "axle stops". The curved lower edge of the stop is normally clear of the axleshaft by about 2-3" in general running. If the bogie frame drops - maybe a spring has broken - then the curved, lower, edge of the stop descends until sitting on the axle.

regards, Graham

 

[Dog Star]

... The even bigger question as far as I am concerned is, how many trusses under the floor, 2 or 4? ...

...Graham also did a bit of book diving and came up with a reasonable pattern of two and four truss underframes. Here's a link to his post on the subject in this thread:

How many trusses make an underframe?

Humm...
Rule 1 of GWR Coaching stock is that there is exception.
Rule 2 of GWR Coaching stock is that rule 1 is correct, always.

The link given by Heather provides this information:-

To stop any of you from following the tried and tested route of turning page after page of Russell's four volumes of GWR Carriages ... there are some Collett carriages which had four angle iron trusses. In summary, those coaches were / are :-

* articulated stock;
* super saloons;
* some Riviera stock;
* some non-corridor, bow-end stock.

Restaurant cars play the "rule 1" game nicely... and the "hiding in the shadows" to a near perfect pitch. In the absence of either preserved examples or works drawings then the best which we can do is to examine photo after photo after photo... which is probably why Russell and OPC produced four volumes of pikkies of GWR carriage stock. Restaurant cars are in the diagram H series and corresponding photos are to be found in GWR Carriages, Appendix Vol.2. Let the fun begin.

Where I can be certain of a choice between two and four trusses per underframe, I feel that diagram H vehicles with four truss underframes can be summarised as:-

* most Churchward built stock;
* the articulated restaurant / kitchen cars;
* some vehicles which were considered as being for the Cornish Riviera service;
* some general service Collett builds - but not H33 .

Quite why H33 appears to be a two truss underframe when contemporary diagram H stock had four trusses is not clear. There are plenty of rabbit holes here for those with time to spare.

regards, Graham

 

[Ressaldar]

Hi Graham,

seems to me that the only way to resolve my particular conundrum is to present myself at East Lancs, with some spurious bit of 'officialdom'/pass and try and gain access into the carriage shed - there is an alternative, try and have words with Pete Waterman at the Wigan show (he is attending the Booklaw stand) to see what if any information that he may have/can get his hands on/ask him to provide the official 'official' piece of spurious paperwork for an authorised visit - albeit on his behalf - I will report back on any findings, soon, I hope. On the plus side, it does mean that I only have to bend up two trusses

cheers

Mike

 

[Heather Kay]

Yay! I've finished the final pair of bogies! Just some final details for the bolsters, a lick of paint to touch things up, and a squirt of matt varnish to hopefully protect things, and I'm all done.

At last.

Now on to things topsides.